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Need Advice/Help on Plant Growth

1694 Views 14 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  Rusticdr, 
A
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I recently decided to upgrade from a 10 gallon to a 20 gallon, I started off with fake plants but slowly decided to switch to an all natural set up. I've been looking up and down every web site I can trying to find a proper explanation for how to know a set up will work for a planted aquarium. I've talked to several people from pet supplies and fish stores, I've asked questions across several forums but I am still unsure of what I could be doing better. (I will be checking the sale forum later for any good advice on macro ferts, I've been told that Floruish Comp isn't enough on it's own, I am located by a Petsmart and Petco and will have to check to see if they sell macro ferts, maybe my local fish care store would have such a thing.)

As for my set up now:

Deep Blue 20 gal (24 in. wide, 16.5 in. tall, 13 in. back to front)
LED Finnex Planted Plus (20 inch) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GH9HSI0...ding=UTF8&th=1
Eheim 75 Watt Heater keeps the temp at a steady 78 F
Aquaclear 10-20 gal HOB filter
I use Seachem Prime on water changes, which are done once a week
I dose 2 ml of Flourish Excel a day and 1.6 ml of Flourish twice a week

I've noticed lately that my plants seem to be suffering and I am unsure of what I could do to help them, here are some pictures I've taken as of today listed below in the order of:
Staurogyne Repens
Temple Compacta
Baccopa
Bucephalandra
Javafern
Anubias
Cryptocoryne
Hygrophila

I really would like to know if this light set up is enough or not, my main question is should I add another LED strip to the mix? I've also heard having a carbon diffuser would be a lot better than dosing Excel, would this be more of a benefit? My poor Repens have been bombarded with Black Beard Algae until I started dosing Excel, and I've read that keeping a carpet plant in an aquarium is very tough to achieve. I really want my plants to flourish though.

My dream tank I want to achieve eventually is something like these inspiration tanks over at Tropica. Inspiration for aquascapes; planted tanks - Tropica Aquarium Plants What does one need exactly to have such beautiful tanks? I would love a list of the exact necessities (just items in general so no one gets in trouble for selling outside the Sale forum).

I've also been looking into other LED lights, I'd like to stay away from bulbs, does anyone have any good advice on growth LEDs or is the Finnex PP a good one in itself? I've heard a few aquascapers like the Fluval Aquasky https://www.amazon.com/Fluval-Aquask.../dp/B013U25C98

Don't mind the crazy scatter of plants though, I'm really trying to figure out how to Feng Shui my plants and I don't want to uproot anyone until I figure out how to best care for my plants first, but I am not content with the layout as of yet.

Update: I just trimmed the tallest stalk of Hygro and replanted it, the Temple Compacta just doesn't seem to be improving any, any new growth it gets ended up tattered later.

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A
I do see that Seachem Flourish comes in Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium, would using all three together be a good idea to make up for what Flourish Comp does not give?
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Hilde
What are your nitrate levels? Nitrates 10 - 20 ppm is the usual. Low and high nitrates have caused bad algae in my tanks. Spectricide stump remover will supply the nitrates if you need to increase them. It is 100% KNO3 (potassium nitrate). In the summer it is in hardware stores in some states. Until then it can be found on Amazon about the same price as in hardware stores. Here is fert calculator. Increase the nitrates slowly or the fish will be affected.

Here is an algae treatment I read about.

Your light looks strong enough. I have found creating a light siesta period helps keep bad algae in check. My lights are on 4hrs, off 3hrs, and on 4hrs. Perhaps a light siesta period would help your tank.

Also make certain you have good circulation where the BBA is.

When you run out of ferts you can replace excel with Metricide 28 glut 2.5% or Metricide 14 2% glutaraldehyde Metricide or Cidex. Not cidex odt. Also a dry fert replacement for Seachem Flourish is gh booster.

Seachem Excel contains 1.5% Glutaraldehyde. I find it on Ebay. Recently got a quart for $9, which last me at least a year.

Formula
glut = (1.5 x container)/ cidex glut%
glut = (1.5% * 100ml)/2.5%.
500ml bottle = 300ml of 2.5%(Metricide 28) + 200ml of water
Keep us posted.
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ed.junior
Glutaraldehyde definitely can help. But it is a remedy, not a solution.

Ferts, with the exception of Ammonia do not cause algae. Having in imbalance between light, ferts, co2 and plant growth will create the ideal scenario for algae.

Let light be the driver of the system, it will dictate the growth speed. If something is unbalanced, more light will make it go wrong faster.
I'm
I would say you have two basic decisions: either dimming down the light (or putting it higher) or increasing the rest. These are the 2 big "types" of tank: low tech and high tech.

Low tech means a more relaxed, slower pace, less trimming, but you get great results over a reasonable amount of time.

High tech means a bigger investiment of time/money, weekly trimming, but you get a faster pace, with some quirks, like keeping some great plants otherwise not possible.

I am trying to help you by giving you knowledge about how to achieve a balance of these parameters.

Whichever is your decision, you will need to adopt a fertilisation routine that supplies macro (NPK) and micros (Fe/Traces)

Many of the Tropica layouts can be easily reproduced, if you match the plants requirements (e.g. CO2, lights)

I would like to ask you: are you into low tech, Diana Walstad biotope stuff, or tending a bit towards high tech?
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Hilde
ed.junior said:
Glutaraldehyde definitely can help. But it is a remedy, not a solution
Ferts, with the exception of Ammonia do not cause algae. Having in imbalance between light, ferts, co2 and plant growth will create the ideal scenario for algae..
Click to expand...
Glut will supply the Co2 plants need to out compete the algae for ferts.

Aiming towards strengthening the plants will help them to out compete the algae. Thus algae will be under control. Algae is always present.
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ed.junior
Hilde said:
Glut will supply the Co2 plants need to out compete the algae for ferts.
Click to expand...
Your intention is correct, but let me add something. Glutaraldehyde does not provide CO2. It provides another source of carbon, in the form of a photosynthetic intermediate.

Also, the competition is not for ferts or co2, as the algae can deal with worse scenarios than the plants. Light is a much better candidate for competition.

However, it is a well know fact that when plants do well, algae does not. And for plants to succeed in growing you do not need Glutaraldehyde. You need a proper balanced environment. Glutaraldehyde might shift the aquarium chemistry towards the balance, but again: it is about the balance, the healthy growth.

Still, I agree that glutaraldehyde helps the plants, and is a great ally against algae.

Hilde said:
Aiming towards strengthening the plants will help them to out compete the algae. Thus algae will be under control. Algae is always present.
Click to expand...
Agree almost with everything. Strengthen the plants and algae is under control, all great.

But always present? Well, if we are considering one GSA dot, or something like that, technically yes. But as general thing, no, not always present. BGA, BBA, Staghorn, hair algae.. no. Something is not correct. Algae should not be there to the point it is easily visible. Well balanced tanks have very very little or none.

Few people will bother going the extra mile for it. Once the balance is found though, the tank will very stable.

Also, forgot to say: I guess your light is setting a high pace for your tank, and you end up starving the plants for ferts/CO2.

Depending on the amount of light, Glutaraldehyde will not be able to provide the needed carbon.

I would advise to lower the light intensity, or add a CO2 source.
As I said before, low or high tech?

This picture is from the same tank, same light (2x24w T5HO) and same CO2 (~30ppm, 1.0 pH drop). Ferts were out balance, after that CO2 was slightly adjusted (1.2 pH drop). All about balance.
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Hilde
ed.junior said:
Agree almost with everything. Strengthen the plants and algae is under control, all great.

But always present? Well, if we are considering one GSA dot, or something like that, technically yes. But as general thing, no, not always present. BGA, BBA, Staghorn, hair algae.. no. Something is not correct. Algae should not be there to the point it is easily visible. Well balanced tanks have very very little or none.
Click to expand...
So do not count the algae that is on the glass of the tank? My understanding is that there is bad and good algae. The algae film on the glass is good algae and some fish like to eat it.
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ed.junior
Hilde said:
So do not count the algae that is on the glass of the tank? My understanding is that there is bad and good algae. The algae film on the glass is good algae and some fish like to eat it.
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You are free to make your distinctions between algae. If that helps you, then by all means, do it.

My point is it should tell you something is off, regardless of the fact that some fish feed of it.

The fact remains that balanced tanks will have none :)

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
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Hilde
ed.junior said:
You are free to make your distinctions between algae. If that helps you, then by all means, do it.
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Well I don't agree! I know of other's that don't agree either.
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ed.junior
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My participation here is not to prove a point, but to help the OP on his goal.

Therefore, I think it is a valuable information: algae should not be present in well established tanks. This is something that people might have a problem reproducing, because it requires some effort, and some other people might just get technical (e.g. "it is not a 100% algae free) just to win a discussion.

I understand the point that algae is normally present, but it does not necessarily help. You could use this knowledge to further improve the tank's balance.

But talking has its limits.
Try finding algae on Tom Barr tanks (top pictures), or even on mine (bottom ones).


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BettaBettas
Hilde said:
Well I don't agree! I know of other's that don't agree either.
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idk, im thinking he has made a very valid point :nerd: And with his Tom Barr example, as an example, he is correct. IMO some people have algae in their tanks for some reason such as feeding their fish. (on purpose.) Others who consider it a nuisance, in this case Junior, believe to my understanding and agreement, that it is a sign of something being off. Almost a natural reminder. my Long nano tank doesn't have a spec of algae in it, I can assure this. I've witnessed my shrimp starve (not saying that's why im saying there's no algae) because there isn't any algae. I've looked to see, and to my excitement there wasn't, and still isn't. They mostly scavenge on either, leftovers, or... more leftovers... Now im my other tank, not the same story lol
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aXio
Ed.Junior I promise you if you told Tom Barr that fully balanced tank has zero algae he would completely disagree with you. I don't care how balanced your aquarium there will ALWAYS be algae in the aquarium in some shape or form.

You can argue all day long about what "algae" in the tank actually means. I promise you there is still algae in that Tom Barr aquarium pictured. He still has to wipe the glass down every once in a while... there is still algae. He has Cherry shrimp and other critters in that 120 gallon literally eating the algae. So how can you make a statement such as there is no algae in his aquarium?

Some people never actually see algae in their aquariums because the fish, inverts, and bacteria, etc could be eating it before we can visual see it. But it is still there...

I run the 3rd largest maintenance company in the United States. We run 13 trucks now... and in my professional opinion I have to say that your statement about a balance aquarium having zero algae is wrong. Normally I would not get involved with conversations like this... but you have to be careful giving out bold statements like that when helping people.

Maybe you should say there should be zero nuisance algae in an aquarium... Not algae.


-----------------------

Back to the OP... there are many ways to fight off the Algae...

Getting the right balance in the aquarium between Co2, Light, Ferts, etc as Ed.Junior has mentioned is the ultimate key.

Obviously running out an buying a full CO2 system is not an option for everyone. Certainly a balance can be found different methods... Some people have good luck with DIY CO2 and others swear by Excel. And then some run both CO2 and Excel... the point is there are many ways to find a balance with out running out and spending a bunch of money.

Typically the light is the easiest and cheapest thing to start adjusting. The photo period "seista" Hilde mentioned might be worth trying. It has worked for us in many situations.

Have you done some water tests on the system yet? I would get your Nitrates tested for sure. Also a pH/KH test would be good to see what kind of CO2 levels you are running. I like to test it through out the day to see how the CO2 levels vary. Especially right before the lights turn on and right when they turn off.
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BettaBettas
aXio said:
I run the 3rd largest maintenance company in the United States. We run 13 trucks now... and in my professional opinion I have to say that your statement about a balance aquarium having zero algae is wrong..
Click to expand...
*slowly claps* to much ethos there buddy.
on a side note apart from that I own a 4 million dollar house with 3 lambos and a Ferrari :)


Algae is IMO not always in an aquarium, just my opinion. Now im going to be sarcastic and say, algae isn't always in an aquarium because when there's no water in it and its a dry start, no algae :angel: I could quote and link numerous amounts of videos also proving not all aquariums have algae, they may produce algae, but it doesn't stay there. Videos like "How to remove all your algae!" "How to kill algae!" "How to have an algae free tank!"
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ed.junior
Literally blown out of proportion.

I said from the first moment that people would come and say "Not a 100%!"

I stand by what I said. It is all about the balance. And the fishes and inverts are part of the same system. I do not exclude them from the equation, they might add nitrogen, remove o2 or eat algae. You cannot treat the issues in separate. So yeah, the algae "is" there, but you cannot see it, because it was eaten. So, not there. Ok. I have no interest for this technical analysis, separated from the actual results.

Axio, it is irrelevant the technicalities, the percentage, or the classification of algae as good, bad, nuisance. It is a reflex of the tank's condition. I know that for months I did not have to clean the glass. When I saw the couple GSA dots I dealt with it.

I know that the spores might always be there, there is always a GSA dot somewhere. This is where I draw the line. If algae is so scarce that you have to look for some minutes to actually find it, algae is not an issue. For the sake of the 99.99% of tank that is free of algae, I will call the whole tank algae free.

The point to me is not being 100% free, but algae simply not being an issue. It is not something that "has" to be there.

But please, this discussion does not help the OP. The point, again, is that the algae in a well balanced tank will always recede, or simply has no chance to grow/stay.

And, as I proposed initially, the best path would be for the OP to decide his approach, by using less light, add co2, etc.
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Rusticdr
I guess in a way they r all right in their own ways. As Ed noted getting the balance rite is the key and once u do that u generally don't see algae. Now whether it's actually there in non visible quantities or get eaten s a matter of irrelevance as that's not gonna bother us.
As for the OP.. as noted by many above.. try starting low tech with low lights (try lifting up the lights a bit or dim or reduce duration). Plants like anubias ,java fern, dwarf Sagittarius and crypts do well. U cud try ada amazonia soil as a substrate as it wud start the engines of the tank.. but u will have to a fishless cycle as it leaches ammonia initially. Once the substrate s set the plants will be OK. U will have a lot of brown algae initially which will eventually disappear. If it's too much cut down on photoperiod. Do the ferts as u do now.As u get the hang of it u can add stem plants and may be some injected co2. Then u can up the lights.. but trust me getting the balance between the ferts ,co2 and light in a 20 g is much harder when compared to larger tanks. But if u got the time and patience u can still get it. Each one of us have gone thru a spectrum of issues at one time or another and most of the time little tweaks here and there with some intense head scratching gets us thru. That's what makes the hobby worth it. It's a scientific challenge. Otherwise it's just fish in a bowl. Welcome to the world of planted tanks.. good luck.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
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