Moss questions

1005 Views 5 Replies 3 Participants Last post by jflng, Nov 11, 2007

jflng

Discussion Starter · Nov 10, 2007

I attempted to start a moss only tank and ran in to a few problems. It's a 10g well stocked with Xmas, Taiwan, and Weeping mosses. I dosed the EI method, used DIY CO2, and have sufficient lighting. Water parameters were also good and consistent. All started well and the mosses took off. This leads me to my first question:

1. What is the best method of trimming without making an absolute mess?

Even though the mosses are thriving I recently ran into a rough algae problem. Hair and string algae started appearing, and the water turned a nasty milky green color. I toned down my dosing and cut my photoperiod to 8 hours with a 2 hour siesta in the middle.

I tried using excel to combat the hair algae. This doesn't seem to be working as well as I hoped. I tried Phosvec (from the LFS suggestion) to eradicate the green water. I don't have a PO4 test kit so I did this blindingly head first. I guess it removed some phosphate. My water turned into curdled milk when I poured it in. It stuck all over my moss. I removed as much as I could with a gravel vac, but some remains, and the water regressed back to it's green color.

I assumed mosses would be more of a nutrient sponge than I guess they are. I could add more plant mass, but I'd rather keep this a moss only tank.

So here is my next question:

2. What is the next best (cheapest) course of action?

Finally, I was just wondering if there are many reliable visual signs of nutrient imbalances in mosses. With most other plants I can reference deficiency problems easily. I can and have successfully adjusted my dosing by visually inspecting the plants. I am unsure what to look for with mosses, A link with pictures would be great.

I guess I should give this a number too.

3. What are signs of nutrient deficiencies in mosses?

Thanks for your time. Hopefully you can enlighten me.

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A Hill

· #2 · Nov 10, 2007

You're best off just restarting.

Moss do not really need added nutrients, as long as your water is good they'll be fine. IF you really want, adding micros and macros once or twice a month can't hurt. Personally I don't dose.

Moss really don't have nutrient problems from what I've been able to observe over almost two years now? Yes I think around two years... wow time flies.

Cut down on your light, clean your tank out. and add some moss. I use 10g tank with standard kit light and works great.

Your GW was because you have TOOO much LIGHT and TOOO many nutrients in the water column to be honest when I did have GW in another tank, my plants grew great... Explain that:icon_roll

More or less, chill low tech it, and your results will be amazing.

-Andrew

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jflng

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 10, 2007

Thanks for the info. I'll raise my lights, stop the ferts, and see how that goes.
Does that mean I should stop the CO2 also?

Apparently I was wrong in treating this setup like my other planted tanks. I'm no plant guru, but I've always managed to keep plants healthy and algae to a minimum. This is my first experience with moss (obviously), and my worst algae outbreak thus far.

I really don't want to start over. I'm short of funds right now, so I'd rather not have to order more moss. Hopefully I can still save this tank.

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A Hill

· #4 · Nov 11, 2007

jflng said:
Thanks for the info. I'll raise my lights, stop the ferts, and see how that goes.
Does that mean I should stop the CO2 also?

Apparently I was wrong in treating this setup like my other planted tanks. I'm no plant guru, but I've always managed to keep plants healthy and algae to a minimum. This is my first experience with moss (obviously), and my worst algae outbreak thus far.

I really don't want to start over. I'm short of funds right now, so I'd rather not have to order more moss. Hopefully I can still save this tank.

You may have misunderstood some of the things I said.

Light is fine, as long as the plant load and the ferts are in check, lighter ferts and more moss with the light should be fine, you will have initial algae problems probably.

What I meant, was take all the moss out, salvage what you can, add it back to the tank and give it time. Excel works great as well, just watch how much you add to the tank, when I remember to I do 2ml per dose per day.

What your problem was, was that you where putting way more ferts into the water column than what was consumed, and had too much light with too much extra ferts... and that causes GW. You should have just left the GW in there IMO.

-Andrew

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turbosaurus

· #5 · Nov 11, 2007

I second the motion. Lay off the ferts for a while.

GW is usually indicative of an ammonia spike. Is this a new tank? Any new livestock added recently? Quick fix? Add a flocculant (water clarifier) sold under various names at your LFS, look for something that clears cloudy water. It will causes the GW particles to stick together, put some old fashioned filter floss in your filter, let it run for a couple hours and then remove the green floss. Should work just fine.

I wouldn't remove/trim any moss until you get this straightened out. You never want to remove plant mass in the middle of an algae battle. Good luck.

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jflng

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 11, 2007

Fish Newb said:
You may have misunderstood some of the things I said.

Light is fine, as long as the plant load and the ferts are in check, lighter ferts and more moss with the light should be fine, you will have initial algae problems probably.

What I meant, was take all the moss out, salvage what you can, add it back to the tank and give it time. Excel works great as well, just watch how much you add to the tank, when I remember to I do 2ml per dose per day.

What your problem was, was that you where putting way more ferts into the water column than what was consumed, and had too much light with too much extra ferts... and that causes GW. You should have just left the GW in there IMO.

-Andrew

OK I think I get it, but I thought I did have a large plant load. I had a lot of moss to start. Apparently moss doesn't consume as many nutrients as I assumed.

I'd venture to say that all my moss is salvageable. It's all healthy green and growing. I think my main battle besides GW is cladophora. It's all over the mosses. I remove what I can. I just hope it doesn't choke the moss out. I have been using excel, but it's not working too well so far. Last time I tried excel on some type of hair algae, it cleared it up within a couple days.

I am going to greatly decrease my photoperiod, and stop the dosing for now.

turbosaurus said:
I second the motion. Lay off the ferts for a while.

GW is usually indicative of an ammonia spike. Is this a new tank? Any new livestock added recently? Quick fix? Add a flocculant (water clarifier) sold under various names at your LFS, look for something that clears cloudy water. It will causes the GW particles to stick together, put some old fashioned filter floss in your filter, let it run for a couple hours and then remove the green floss. Should work just fine.

I wouldn't remove/trim any moss until you get this straightened out. You never want to remove plant mass in the middle of an algae battle. Good luck.

The tank is roughly two months old. The live stock consists of maybe 30 1/8"-1/4" mystery fry I received from a moss shipment. They hatched a couple weeks after adding some moss. I have no Idea what they are, but I'd like to keep them alive to find out. I will move them to my large tank when they grow a bit more. I doubt they contributed to this problem. They are still pretty small. The GW appeared suddenly about a month after setup. My dosing was probably too generous.

The phosvec I added is supposed to adhere to the excess phosphate particles. I'm pretty sure that's what it did, but it made quite a mess. It instantly turned to white jelly and covered my moss. It's been a pain to remove.

I'll try the filter floss. I was also thinking of buying some purigen.

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