[sonhvan]

I'm looking into buying a new metering valve. Any pro here has experience with these two valves? I can't decide which one to get. Which one is better? I have a 135 gallons tank with 55 gallons sump. Thank you very much for your help.

 

[kevmo911]

I've used the 1600. It's really, *really* good. For the Brooks, it depends on the stem type. I've never used one, but there are 6 stem types. Types 1, 2, and 3 have a smaller orifice than 4, 5, and 6. I'd expect a bit of a jump up between 3 and 4 (smaller is better). The stem taper is smaller as the stem types get lower (again, smaller is better). So the basic model numbers, 8503, 8504, 8513, 8514, don't mean anything as far as precision goes, only construction type. I actually have a type 4 that I've never gotten around to testing.

So the full model number is the 4 numbers, then "D", then a number (1 for brass, 2 for SS), and then a letter. That letter, A-F, is the stem type, A=1, F=6. I'd expect 1,2, and 3 (ABC) to work well. Not sure about 4-6 (DEF).

Also remember that if a valve looks like it's been around the block a few times, there's no guarantee that it isn't broken, or that a seal is isn't leaky.

 

[sonhvan]

Thank you very much for the info on model number. Its Very helpful.

One more thing... can we have too low of CV value for a big tank. I'm running an open 55 gallon sump on a 135 gallons. Will my bubble count be very high to the point that I can't even count? What if the valve is too good and I can't get it to open any bigger? Can such a thing happen to these 2 valves with CV of .0008 for hoke and 0.0006 0.00029 for the brooks type 1 and 2. Too good can be a bad thing in this case or its still good enough.

 

[AlanLe]

Thank you very much for the info on model number. Its Very helpful.

One more thing... can we have too low of CV value for a big tank. I'm running an open 55 gallon sump on a 135 gallons. Will my bubble count be very high to the point that I can't even count? What if the valve is too good and I can't get it to open any bigger? Can such a thing happen to these 2 valves with CV of .0008 for hoke and 0.0006 0.00029 for the brooks type 1 and 2. Too good can be a bad thing in this case or its still good enough.

Did you drop $167 for that Brooks valve on evilbay? lol

 

[kevmo911]

Thank you very much for the info on model number. Its Very helpful.

One more thing... can we have too low of CV value for a big tank. I'm running an open 55 gallon sump on a 135 gallons. Will my bubble count be very high to the point that I can't even count? What if the valve is too good and I can't get it to open any bigger? Can such a thing happen to these 2 valves with CV of .0008 for hoke and 0.0006 0.00029 for the brooks type 1 and 2. Too good can be a bad thing in this case or its still good enough.

Well, the Cv is only part of the story. Cv is the flow, wide open, with 1 psi difference between inlet and outlet. We don't run wide open, and there's always going to be varying differences between in and out, and never that little. And there are a few other factors.

However, with really low flow valves, depending on needed flow and a lot of other parameters, it's remotely possible. But my guess is you should be able to compensate by increasing working pressure.

 

[klibs]

you could also get an Ideal valve for like $90 (I think) Forged Brass Needle Valves | Ideal Valve Inc.
I got the V 52-1-12 to replace the crap-tastic fabco valve that came with my reg and it is 100x better.

Mainly I got it because I was sick of waiting on ebay for like forever to find a nice name-brand one. Do not regret the purchase.

 

[sonhvan]

Do you guys suggest CO2 reactor or atomizer? Which model to get? Thank you in advance


Alanle.... yes I got that brooks. Tire of waiting and looking around.

Kmov911... thank you for the higher pressure suggestion. Makes perfect sense now.

Klibs.... I also looked at the ideal V54-1-12 but the brooks and hoke just seem better. I paid extra for the fine adjustment that I never needed in the first place because of the big tank and open sump lol.

 

[FlyingHellFish]

Thank you very much for the info on model number. Its Very helpful.

One more thing... can we have too low of CV value for a big tank. I'm running an open 55 gallon sump on a 135 gallons. Will my bubble count be very high to the point that I can't even count? What if the valve is too good and I can't get it to open any bigger? Can such a thing happen to these 2 valves with CV of .0008 for hoke and 0.0006 0.00029 for the brooks type 1 and 2. Too good can be a bad thing in this case or its still good enough.

See, now this guy is asking all the right question! There *is* a point where low could become "annoyingly" low. It is like the opposites of cheap needle valves, where it takes more turns to see a bps change.

But it's not like sailing a boat and whipping the huge wheel. In my opinion, more turns or control is great. Compare to the cheaper valves where it's like 1 squeeze = 1 bps, you won't experience a huge change from a low flow valve if there is a pressure swing.

For instance, a 10 psi raise will jack up the bps on a more sensitive valve while a lower flow valve will be less affected.

Custom Builder degree from Google University.
PS - People don't usually talk about the Cv of the solenoid but that plays a role too.
PSS - It's ridiculously hard to source Swagelok Brass Mist Silver parts, argh the mark up is crazy!

 

[Joshism]

Thank you very much for the info on model number. Its Very helpful.

One more thing... can we have too low of CV value for a big tank. I'm running an open 55 gallon sump on a 135 gallons. Will my bubble count be very high to the point that I can't even count? What if the valve is too good and I can't get it to open any bigger? Can such a thing happen to these 2 valves with CV of .0008 for hoke and 0.0006 0.00029 for the brooks type 1 and 2. Too good can be a bad thing in this case or its still good enough.

I’m wondering about the same thing because I have a 150 gallon and a Hoke 1600. I hope it’s not so low that I would have to get a different valve.

 

[kevmo911]

Yeah, I've been wondering about having an issue with too low flow. It's rarely discussed, but then the super-low-flow valves aren't all that common. I still think you can overcome limits by increasing working pressure, but since, with big tanks, there's no way to count bubbles in the first place, I wonder if a flowmeter, rather than a metering valve, would be more useful. Somebody had a thread on using one a few months ago. I'm talking about something like this:
Robot Check
That's just an example, I have no idea what flow range you'd use. But I'd like to experiment with one sometime. It would, however, take a large volume of water, and since I've never run a large tank, I'd have to actually start one.

 

[jeffkrol]

My 1600 can easily gas 40gal to the fish critical point w/ no problems at 40psi...
Gut tells me a 1600 will work fine for almost any large tank...

As a side note 30 parts per million of CO2 in water is in the "good zone"...
My math is too rusty to do any sort of full guess-analysis though.

And there are a ton of variables.. like you just need an empty tank at 30ppm not one where plants are actively binding CO2...
In other words there is no need for much above plant utilization saturation where other factors become the limiting factor..or you start harming your livestock.

Typically, surface waters contain less than 10 ppm free carbon dioxide
The acceptable range of carbon dioxide for most finfish is <2.0 mg/L (ppm).
To take in fresh oxygen, fish must first discharge the CO2 in their blood stream, a process which is slowed down considerably when there are high concentrations of CO2 in the water itself. Unfortunately the CHEMetrics test kits do not measure below 10 mg/L, so if you get a reading on this test, you know your water body is in trouble

http://www.alken-murray.com/TESTS01.htm