Lumens and PAR
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That is one thing that made me a bit curious too. It seems the red/blue bulb would be for plants, but I can see why the red/white would (somewhat). Hopefully at least one of the bulbs is good for plants!
-Tim
-Tim
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The blue part of the red/blue bulb is actinic, and it just wouldn't provide enough output in the wavelengths plants photosynthesize at. The white part of the red/white plant growth bulb is a high Kelvin white, with strong blue output, but still a visually pleasing tone. I have a feeling that bulb would be killer on a planted tank. I would order a pair today with a WH7 ballast if I had the funds!
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You talk about ordering the bulbs with a balast... If my 2x55 watt strip I have has straight-pin bulbs, I could just order the bulbs, and put them in, right? I assumed with would be true, just to double check.
I forgot to put in my last post, I also have the 9325 K bulbs, but since my tank is a 55 and I don't have another 2x55 watt strip, the purplish hew is too much for me... But, I do think that they would nicely balance out in a tank with 4x55 PC, like m.Lemay's.
I also decided to try putting T-12 bulbs into my ODNO fixture (I am going to check it this weekend, since I really don't think the bulbs are actually getting over-driven 4x, some wire is probably off somewhere) and it worked! The first time I tried this, it didn't work, but now it does, who knows! The T8 appears brighter, it is uncomfortable to look at it, but the T12 you can stare into comfortably.
If in fact there is a wire off somewhere, I can't wait to see what the GE P&A bulbs look like 4x, and with their decent PUR, my plants should be liking it!
-Tim
I forgot to put in my last post, I also have the 9325 K bulbs, but since my tank is a 55 and I don't have another 2x55 watt strip, the purplish hew is too much for me... But, I do think that they would nicely balance out in a tank with 4x55 PC, like m.Lemay's.
I also decided to try putting T-12 bulbs into my ODNO fixture (I am going to check it this weekend, since I really don't think the bulbs are actually getting over-driven 4x, some wire is probably off somewhere) and it worked! The first time I tried this, it didn't work, but now it does, who knows! The T8 appears brighter, it is uncomfortable to look at it, but the T12 you can stare into comfortably.
If in fact there is a wire off somewhere, I can't wait to see what the GE P&A bulbs look like 4x, and with their decent PUR, my plants should be liking it!
-Tim
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Correct - the only reason I spoke of ordering a ballast with endcaps is because my caps are square pin and I wanted to add a second set of 55w bulbs for a total of four.
I kinda like the purplish hue, I might have to check out those 9325K bulbs. Dont' expect the P&A bulbs to look brighter, though! As much as the regular T12 bulb you used looks a bit dimmer than the T8, the P&A will appear to have even less output. And it is true that overall lumens are definitely lower, but like you said, their increased PUR should make a difference in your plant growth. I hope they respond.
If possible, try to get the Sylvania Plant & Aquarium bulbs at Lowes instead of the GE ones at Home Depot. They're slightly more efficient.
I kinda like the purplish hue, I might have to check out those 9325K bulbs. Dont' expect the P&A bulbs to look brighter, though! As much as the regular T12 bulb you used looks a bit dimmer than the T8, the P&A will appear to have even less output. And it is true that overall lumens are definitely lower, but like you said, their increased PUR should make a difference in your plant growth. I hope they respond.
If possible, try to get the Sylvania Plant & Aquarium bulbs at Lowes instead of the GE ones at Home Depot. They're slightly more efficient.
If anyone cares I just bought Philips TL850 Altos and they are 5000K and 86CRI. The bulb burns blueish/white and the tank looks very natural and not overly yellow or white. I have 4 bulbs on my tank, being 2 times ODNO each. My plants are pearling and growing. I paid $85.00 for a case of 25 T 8 bulbs. :bounce:
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That's a great price on those bulbs. You've got enough bulbs to last quite a long time! I'm guessing they are the most recent version of the Phillips Advantage fluorescent, 5000K F32T8/ADV850 bulbs listed on the aritcle on Aqua Botanic. If so, with 22.8 uE/s Total PUR for standard output, you're probably getting upwards of 30 uE/s being ODNO 2x. Not bad at all! Glad to see that your plants are pearling and growing as well.
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After changing my light setup, I can definitely tell a difference in some plants. Instead of using the GE P&A, I used my 9325 K PC's and put in a "nutrigrow" T12 in my ODNO fixture. My Rotala wallichii is bright pink on the tips, and everything else is going well.
Nothing is growing much since CO2 is not here yet, but I'm sure that will change once I get all the stuff in the mail..
-Tim
Nothing is growing much since CO2 is not here yet, but I'm sure that will change once I get all the stuff in the mail..
-Tim
I wish I had a little more info on those white/red bulbs Pet supply liquidators. I might buy a couple and compare them to the 9325ks. I thought the sight had plant bulbs and the red/white bulbs? I'll have to check the sight again. If thats the case maybe I'll buy one of each to see which one I like best.
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If you go to the website, they only have the "plant growth" in the bulb information part, but when you order them, you can choose between the "red/white" and the "plant growth". The "red/white" might be a narrower red spectrum, like actinic blue, except red, if that makes any sense.... I want to order some too....
-Tim
-Tim
I just sent an e-mail to pet supply liquidators asking for PAR data and/or spectrum graphs on thier 55 watt tubes. I hope they'll be responding soon. I told them,if they want, I'll post the data here and it could translate to more sales to them. A little bribe never hurt:hehe:
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Lol! I just did the EXACT same thing! After not responding to my first e-mail, I decided to "put a little extra" 
into the e-mail! Well, if they don't believe you, they will when they read mine :flick:! Hopefully they have some data...
-Tim :fish:
into the e-mail! Well, if they don't believe you, they will when they read mine :flick:! Hopefully they have some data...-Tim :fish:
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Pet Supply Liquidators has replied to my emails before, but they take a few days and usually won't trouble themselves with lengthy technical questions. They're not a technical resource, I guess, they're mostly committed to supporting sales - which you can't blame them for.
I'd be very curious to see how plants respond to one of those plant growth bulbs, though. This is the first PC bulb I've ever seen specifically designed for planted aquaria.
I'd be very curious to see how plants respond to one of those plant growth bulbs, though. This is the first PC bulb I've ever seen specifically designed for planted aquaria.
Pet supply liquidators just e-mailed me back. They said, they doubt that they have any PAR ratings but that he probably could dig up some spectrum graphs for the bulbs and that they'd e-mail me back as soon as he finds them.
I think the bribe worked!!:hehe:
I think the bribe worked!!
:hehe:
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They replied to mine as well but said that they don't have many specifics, but will e-mail info to me once they get some...
-Tim
-Tim
What fluorescent lighting aspect is most critical? Color Temperature, CRI, Lumens or total wattage? I've read that the ideal color temperature range is in the 5000k to 7000k range, CRI greater than 85 and Lumens in the 2000 range.
However I have a single 15 watt 18" GE Aqua Ray on a 10g which is rated @650 lumen and a whopping 9400k color temperture. The water sprite is taking over the tank.
However I have a single 15 watt 18" GE Aqua Ray on a 10g which is rated @650 lumen and a whopping 9400k color temperture. The water sprite is taking over the tank.
Read the first post on the first page of this thread and click on the blue link entitled "A comparison between light sources used in planted aquaria".
All those things you listed are a piece of the answer but the article will "enlighten " you as to whats important for plant growth.
All those things you listed are a piece of the answer but the article will "enlighten " you as to whats important for plant growth.
The GE fresh and saltwater 9325K 55watt PC bulb has the same signature as thier NO fresh and saltwater bulb. In the article Sam posted in the first post there's a chart showing this bulbs spectral signature. Even though the plot is for a NO flourescent the signature is the same, though probably more efficient, All-Glass claims that it's the same bulb but in a PC configuration. Heres The Plot.
Check it out.
Check it out.
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Hmmm, interesting. More green output than I'd imagined it would have.
Bala, the guidelines you stated for CRI, lumens and color temperature are usually aimed at four foot 40w F40T12 bulbs (the most popular size). There's one I would disagree with. Generally, a high CRI won't have the spectral output a plant desires. The true way to choose a plant bulb is by its PAR, but since that information isn't readily available, indicators you should use are:
1) CRI in the 80-90 range.
2) Color Temperature in the 5000K-6500K range.
3) Slightly less than average lumens output. (Avg 40w tube makes 3000, so 2000 is typical of a plant bulb)
The reason for number 3 is that lux (lumens) is a measure of light intensity, based on a color spectrum that humans are most sensitive to (most sensitive to green). Plants are exactly opposite - they are less responsive to green and more so to red and blue. So a bulb with uncharacteristically high lumens output will likely have a ton of light that we can see, but less light the plants can see.
As Marcel mentioned, all of this information is contained in much improved detail in the article posted in the first post of this thread.
Bala, the guidelines you stated for CRI, lumens and color temperature are usually aimed at four foot 40w F40T12 bulbs (the most popular size). There's one I would disagree with. Generally, a high CRI won't have the spectral output a plant desires. The true way to choose a plant bulb is by its PAR, but since that information isn't readily available, indicators you should use are:
1) CRI in the 80-90 range.
2) Color Temperature in the 5000K-6500K range.
3) Slightly less than average lumens output. (Avg 40w tube makes 3000, so 2000 is typical of a plant bulb)
The reason for number 3 is that lux (lumens) is a measure of light intensity, based on a color spectrum that humans are most sensitive to (most sensitive to green). Plants are exactly opposite - they are less responsive to green and more so to red and blue. So a bulb with uncharacteristically high lumens output will likely have a ton of light that we can see, but less light the plants can see.
As Marcel mentioned, all of this information is contained in much improved detail in the article posted in the first post of this thread.
Pet supply liquidators got back to me with some info on thier plant bulb. Its not the greatest picture in the world.
55 watt Plant Bulb
55 watt Plant Bulb
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