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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What makes this plant happy? More or less nutrients? Micros? Husbandry?

Where should I focus to really get the most out of this plant?

Thank you for any insight.
 

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Pantanal likes lots of everything.....light, ferts, CO2.

In general it's a hog. It doesn't understand moderation.

It's also a good early indicator. If it pouts, something is off. Good news is it's also quick to bounce back when things get better.

But be prepared. I've kept the same group for about 5 years or so, and it is a true weed. I trim at least once and sometimes twice a week. So it's a pain in that regard, but there really isn't anything like it and I can't quit it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Pantanal likes lots of everything.....light, ferts, CO2.

In general it's a hog. It doesn't understand moderation.

It's also a good early indicator. If it pouts, something is off. Good news is it's also quick to bounce back when things get better.

But be prepared. I've kept the same group for about 5 years or so, and it is a true weed. I trim at least once and sometimes twice a week. So it's a pain in that regard, but there really isn't anything like it and I can't quit it.
Thank you Greggz. I absolutely want to see this plant thrive in my tank!

On a side note, would you think it would be advantageous to add Ferrous Gluconate Fe to my Micros? I'm just using CSM+B currently.
 

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Thank you Greggz. I absolutely want to see this plant thrive in my tank!

On a side note, would you think it would be advantageous to add Ferrous Gluconate Fe to my Micros? I'm just using CSM+B currently.
Maybe.

What is your normal degassed pH? CSM+B uses EDTA Fe which works best at lower pH levels. The Fe becomes less available as pH rises. That's why some add DTPA to it and Gluconate would be another option.

I add it to my custom micros, but really that is part of my everything but the kitchen sink approach. I also add Calcium Chloride as well. I haven't tried removing them from the mix so really can't say how much difference it makes. But I will say it certainly can't hurt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe.

What is your normal degassed pH? CSM+B uses EDTA Fe which works best at lower pH levels. The Fe becomes less available as pH rises. That's why some add DTPA to it and Gluconate would be another option.

I add it to my custom micros, but really that is part of my everything but the kitchen sink approach. I also add Calcium Chloride as well. I haven't tried removing them from the mix so really can't say how much difference it makes. But I will say it certainly can't hurt.
It's at about 6.9 to 7.0.

I do dose about 1 1/2 after CO² has been on.

Gluconate could help, does best in softer water. DTPA would be the best choice because it sticks around a lot longer
I saw that GLA has an EDTA/DPTA micro mix. Would this be of any value?
 

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I saw that GLA has an EDTA/DPTA micro mix. Would this be of any value?
What that is is just csmb with dtpa they added to it. Never used it but probably be a pretty good product. Alternatively if you already have csmb, just grab 1/2 lb dtpa and then add it yourself. Cheaper and you can adjust the amount. Id start with about 50% dtpa to whatever ppm Fe you're adding from csmb
 

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What that is is just csmb with dtpa they added to it. Never used it but probably be a pretty good product. Alternatively if you already have csmb, just grab 1/2 lb dtpa and then add it yourself. Cheaper and you can adjust the amount. Id start with about 50% dtpa to whatever ppm Fe you're adding from csmb
EDPA is something you can just add to the existing dry mix? Apparently my understanding of chealators was completely wrong (not surprising).

When you say 50% do you mean 50% DTPA to 50% existing CSM?


Edit: just realized burr meant add Fe-DTPA I addition to CSM not add DTPA to CSM.

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What that is is just csmb with dtpa they added to it. Never used it but probably be a pretty good product. Alternatively if you already have csmb, just grab 1/2 lb dtpa and then add it yourself. Cheaper and you can adjust the amount. Id start with about 50% dtpa to whatever ppm Fe you're adding from csmb
Okay, so this would essentially increase my Fe amount but all the other Micros remain at the plantex csm+b levels I was dosing?
I have been dosing .63ppm Fe as proxy, so by following your advice, I'd be around .9ish of Fe. Is my thinking/ understanding correct?
 

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Okay, so this would essentially increase my Fe amount but all the other Micros remain at the plantex csm+b levels I was dosing?
I have been dosing .63ppm Fe as proxy, so by following your advice, I'd be around .9ish of Fe. Is my thinking/ understanding correct?
Yes. But .63 is quite a lot. Is that a weekly total or per dose or what? Id stay around there as total per week, .4 csmb and .2 dtpa. There's plenty of secondary micros in .4 csmb per week. You probably just need a better source of Fe, which dtpa should provide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes. But .63 is quite a lot. Is that a weekly total or per dose or what? Id stay around there as total per week, .4 csmb and .2 dtpa. There's plenty of secondary micros in .4 csmb per week. You probably just need a better source of Fe, which dtpa should provide.
That is my weekly total. I've been wondering if it has been too high. I've been watching yours and @Greggz numbers and started questioning it, hence me wondering about Gluconate.

Should I stay at my current csmb dosing while I wait for the DPTA to arrive, or try lowering it a bit?
 

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Pantanal likes lots of everything.....light, ferts, CO2.

But be prepared. I've kept the same group for about 5 years or so, and it is a true weed. I trim at least once and sometimes twice a week. So it's a pain in that regard, but there really isn't anything like it and I can't quit it.
But there is.... There's a different red one from Colombia that's less picky and larger. Basically just like Cuba but all red.
 

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Answering your question on Fe gluc and Pantanal: I dose .11ppm Fe gluc daily and, as @Greggz commented, it’s a weed that will double it’s size in a week. The gluc is the only iron that I dose. If I didn’t have a UVS, I would dose the gluc and DTPA, even though my pH is well within EDTA capability.

Of course, dosed amount is a function of the growth rate / consumption for each individual tank. You can test for the various forms of iron. In the case of gluc, you want it to be measurable for about a half-hour, after which it should be gone (it is consumed that fast).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Answering your question on Fe gluc and Pantanal: I dose .11ppm Fe gluc daily and, as @Greggz commented, it’s a weed that will double it’s size in a week. The gluc is the only iron that I dose. If I didn’t have a UVS, I would dose the gluc and DTPA, even though my pH is well within EDTA capability.

Of course, dosed amount is a function of the growth rate / consumption for each individual tank. You can test for the various forms of iron. In the case of gluc, you want it to be measurable for about a half-hour, after which it should be gone (it is consumed that fast).
Awesome, thank you! I think I will try the gluconate too, might as well order both and just try things!!!
 

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But there is.... There's a different red one from Colombia that's less picky and larger. Basically just like Cuba but all red.
I've got the "Meta" growing side by side with Pantanal. In my tank it grows just as fast.

Color is redder, tops slightly larger, leaves seem to turn up more than down. But it also needs a LOT of trimming.
 
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