[Jjc123]

Hello all, Im Joe and new to the forum. I have been keeping fish for about 20 yrs now starting with freshwater then planted then saltwater and reef. Ive taken a 5 yr break and now back into it with a small 6 gallon bookshelf i want to make into a planted tank. I have kept discus and difficult tanks before so i am not really a newbie but havent kept freshwater in over 10 yrs atleast so relearning it all. I setup the tank to be wahlstad with topsoil/root tabs topped with play sand. Dragon stone and driftwood as well. I have 17 various plants being delivered in a few days. I do need some help stocking this thing though. Below will be my tank specs and wish list of fish. Any and all help is appreciated.
Lifegard 6 gallon bookshelf. 30x6x8in
Nicrew classicledplus 21w led
Nicrew 5w internal filter 53gph (polish water only)
Top soil/root tabs
Play sand
Dragon stone/driftwood
7.4ph
Amm .25
Nitrite.25
Nitrate cant detect yet
Temp 73°

stocking hopefuls
8 galaxy rasboras or 10 chili rasboras
4 pygmy corys
10 cherry shrimp
2/3 otocinclus
2 nerite snails
Will the otos survive or be underfed eventually?
Can i put both rasboras or is one school already max?
Any other fish suggestions?

 

[somewhatshocked]

How are you preparing the tank for livestock? How are you conducting a fishless cycle?

You'd want to use 2-3 PPM of ammonia, at minimum, to be able to handle the livestock you plan to keep. That will require dosing ammonia on an almost daily basis at one point during the process and it could take a month. This is a good primer on the fishless cycle. Once your tank can process a fixed amount of ammonia within a 24-hour period, with no detectible nitrite, your tank will be 'cycled'. You can then do a 100% water change and add all of your critters.

4 pygmy corys

You'd need to keep them in a shoal of at least 6 and you unfortunately don't have room for them in this tank. I'd remove them from your list.

10 cherry shrimp

What are your tank's water parameters beyond what you've provided? What's your kH? gH? Those two are most important when it comes to shrimp.

You'd also need to provide an absolute ton of plants, lots of moss and more hiding space. Because any fish you have are going to eventually harm shrimp. Even if they seem docile.

Note that shrimp don't need a heater. So if you go with a fish that doesn't need tropical temperatures, you can ditch the heater entirely.

2/3 otocinclus

...

Will the otos survive or be underfed eventually?

These also should be kept in larger numbers. They also truly need a well-established setup and I think you should exclude them from your list, as well.

Can i put both rasboras or is one school already max?

Pick one or the other. This is an extremely small tank.

 

[Jjc123]

Thanks for the reply! So im ok with losing the otos as i can just get a couple nerites and be satisfied with them. Otos were really just for eventual algae blooms. As for my cycle process ive just begun getting the tank dirty by adding fish food and table shrimp but once the plants come i will add some api quickstart and also look to dose some ammonia like you suggested. I havent ever tested for kh or gh in my tanks and have kept invertebrates/plants with great success before (same house and water supply). My plant order has java moss, pearl weed, and monte carlo in it as well as 12 diff stem plants. Im going very heavy planted. As for a heater my house stays around 69° and i fear will be too cold for the fish i intend to keep. I cant decide between the galaxy or chilis. I have heard the galaxy are shy and hard to see true colors unless youre right up to the tank. Which would you choose if it was your tank? Are there any other tank cleaners like cory cats youd suggest so i can replace them on the list or will the shrimp be good enough?

 

[zainey_04]

Can i put both rasboras or is one school already max?

Ive kept 8 Galaxy and 10 Chilli Rasboras and 3 pygmy corys in a heavily planted 7G Cube for over 2 years without issues. The chilli rasboras are tiny. They dont even reach 1" as full adults.

 

[somewhatshocked]

i will add some api quickstart

That won't really do much for you, honestly, so you can just save the cash unless you already have the product. Since you plan to keep invertebrates, you'd want to go through a full fishless cycle anyway.

I havent ever tested for kh or gh in my tanks and have kept invertebrates/plants with great success before

It's still a good idea to know exactly what you're working with when it comes to shrimp. Gives you a really full picture overall. And when something goes wrong, you'll be able to rule out a ton of common issues.

Which would you choose if it was your tank?

I wouldn't choose any of them for such a small tank with very little room front to back. Boraras brigittae are tiny but they're also tenacious hunters and need plenty of space. I'd want to see the tank fully planted before making a decision on that front. Same for Danio margaritatus - they need a fair amount of space to move around. Either could potentially work but B. brigittae is likely best suited for the tank if it's planted well.

If it were me, I'd make it a shrimp-only tank. But I'm a shrimp person. That'd mean no need for a heater because they're cool water species , only feeding every 2-3 days, could have a ton more critters overall. It'd be more colorful and a lot more active.

I have heard the galaxy are shy and hard to see true colors unless youre right up to the tank.

They're both going to be kind of like that. They're shy and won't always be out in the open. B. brigittae are probably the most aggressive of the two. But Danio margaritatus are gorgeous fish and look great up close and far away.

Are there any other tank cleaners like cory cats youd suggest so i can replace them on the list or will the shrimp be good enough?

Neither Corydoras habrosus or Corydoras pgymaeus (these would be okay alone, maybe) are really suitable for a tank like that and they're also not part of a cleanup crew. They're both going to require specific feeding. Both need to be in a group of at least six and ideally twice that. C. habrosus need a ton of room on the substrate level and they just won't have that in your current setup. C. pygmaeus aren't really bottom dwellers and spend all of their time in the mid to upper area of the tank. They could potentially work in your tank in a group of 10-12 but I probably wouldn't keep other fish with them because of the water volume. They're not colorful but they're cool.

Shrimp also probably shouldn't really be thought of as part of a clean-up crew - at least not in any substantial way - but they'd certainly be better at it than most tiny fish species. They can help, obviously, but I wouldn't consider them great at it. Shrimp are 99% of my tanks and they're almost never as spotless as my tanks with primarily fish and snails.

Snails are a bigger deal when it comes to clean-up. Ramshorn, Pond, Bladder are my picks. Ramshorn are available in multiple colors and add a lot of character to tanks like yours. But most of the common types we keep in the hobby (like the three I mentioned) would work well. Their population won't get out-of-control if you keep their food sources in check and stay on top of weekly water changes.

I'd probably pick Ramshorn over Nerite because they won't deposit tons of little white specks all over the tank. But Nerites are great if you can put up with that.

 

[Jjc123]

i think im finally done with my plants. Maybe add some monte carlo but its various 17 different plants.Started dosing ammonia yesterday and waiting for everything to kick in. I think ive decides on the 8 pearl danios and 8 orange sakura shrimp with 2/3 nerites. Hows the stocking list?

 

[Jjc123]

That won't really do much for you, honestly, so you can just save the cash unless you already have the product. Since you plan to keep invertebrates, you'd want to go through a full fishless cycle anyway.



It's still a good idea to know exactly what you're working with when it comes to shrimp. Gives you a really full picture overall. And when something goes wrong, you'll be able to rule out a ton of common issues.



I wouldn't choose any of them for such a small tank with very little room front to back. Boraras brigittae are tiny but they're also tenacious hunters and need plenty of space. I'd want to see the tank fully planted before making a decision on that front. Same for Danio margaritatus - they need a fair amount of space to move around. Either could potentially work but B. brigittae is likely best suited for the tank if it's planted well.

If it were me, I'd make it a shrimp-only tank. But I'm a shrimp person. That'd mean no need for a heater because they're cool water species , only feeding every 2-3 days, could have a ton more critters overall. It'd be more colorful and a lot more active.



They're both going to be kind of like that. They're shy and won't always be out in the open. B. brigittae are probably the most aggressive of the two. But Danio margaritatus are gorgeous fish and look great up close and far away.



Neither Corydoras habrosus or Corydoras pgymaeus (these would be okay alone, maybe) are really suitable for a tank like that and they're also not part of a cleanup crew. They're both going to require specific feeding. Both need to be in a group of at least six and ideally twice that. C. habrosus need a ton of room on the substrate level and they just won't have that in your current setup. C. pygmaeus aren't really bottom dwellers and spend all of their time in the mid to upper area of the tank. They could potentially work in your tank in a group of 10-12 but I probably wouldn't keep other fish with them because of the water volume. They're not colorful but they're cool.

Shrimp also probably shouldn't really be thought of as part of a clean-up crew - at least not in any substantial way - but they'd certainly be better at it than most tiny fish species. They can help, obviously, but I wouldn't consider them great at it. Shrimp are 99% of my tanks and they're almost never as spotless as my tanks with primarily fish and snails.

Snails are a bigger deal when it comes to clean-up. Ramshorn, Pond, Bladder are my picks. Ramshorn are available in multiple colors and add a lot of character to tanks like yours. But most of the common types we keep in the hobby (like the three I mentioned) would work well. Their population won't get out-of-control if you keep their food sources in check and stay on top of weekly water changes.

I'd probably pick Ramshorn over Nerite because they won't deposit tons of little white specks all over the tank. But Nerites are great if you can put up with that.

Another update. Added 2 more plants. At this point my cycle is still at 4.0 amm without nitrite or nitrate. Does it look like i have enough plants? Im a little concerned the corners of the tank are too smooshed and densly planted. Should i take a couple out so the plants can have more space? I have topsoil with slow release root tabs under the sand. Should i begin dosing thrive c or wait a month and see how the tank reacts to my current setup?

 

[Jjc123]

Today i picked up 4 ramshorn snails and 2 nerite snails. I have hair algae already! And its growing by the second. I realized i put my light cycle on 12 hrs a day and am having some plant melting. I have since turned the lights to 6 hrs and am hoping it takes care of the issues. I have a lot of biofilm growing as well and cloudy water. Im hopefully this means my tank is progressing its cycle. Still no signs of nitrites or nitrates. Ive decided on 8/10 pearl danio and 10 cherry shrimp. I think thats the maximum my tank will handle. As of now im satisfied with that bioload and cuc. I over planted the tank as well and after some die off i will be figuring out which plants will stay or be replaced. I have a few ideas in mind as this is all very experimental as i get my feet wet again in the hobby. As always any advice would be great.

 

[minorhero]

Today i picked up 4 ramshorn snails and 2 nerite snails. I have hair algae already! And its growing by the second. I realized i put my light cycle on 12 hrs a day and am having some plant melting. I have since turned the lights to 6 hrs and am hoping it takes care of the issues. I have a lot of biofilm growing as well and cloudy water. Im hopefully this means my tank is progressing its cycle. Still no signs of nitrites or nitrates. Ive decided on 8/10 pearl danio and 10 cherry shrimp. I think thats the maximum my tank will handle. As of now im satisfied with that bioload and cuc. I over planted the tank as well and after some die off i will be figuring out which plants will stay or be replaced. I have a few ideas in mind as this is all very experimental as i get my feet wet again in the hobby. As always any advice would be great.

Hello,

So you are experiencing some of the problems with dirt tanks and one reason I avoid them.

You should be doing water changes daily at this point of at least 50% and frankly more is better. Ideally you would not let your ammonia be over 2ppm if you can help it and less would be better. Your snails will likely not live long at 4ppm ammonia (though depending on how healthy they are at the start, they might struggle along). The intensity of your light can also play a factor. If you don't have a dimmer for this light, you might want to buy one of the inline dimmers.

The reason you are seeing so much algae is that your dirt will be leaching a ton of nutrients for at least the first month and likely a bit longer. For the first few weeks you definitely need to be doing either daily or every other day water changes.

Good luck.

 

[Jjc123]

Hello,

So you are experiencing some of the problems with dirt tanks and one reason I avoid them.

You should be doing water changes daily at this point of at least 50% and frankly more is better. Ideally you would not let your ammonia be over 2ppm if you can help it and less would be better. Your snails will likely not live long at 4ppm ammonia (though depending on how healthy they are at the start, they might struggle along). The intensity of your light can also play a factor. If you don't have a dimmer for this light, you might want to buy one of the inline dimmers.

The reason you are seeing so much algae is that your dirt will be leaching a ton of nutrients for at least the first month and likely a bit longer. For the first few weeks you definitely need to be doing either daily or every other day water changes.

Good luck.

That stinks! I have seen so many dirted tanks become successfull i wanted to try myself. Did i make a mistake by doing one? Is there any reason my plants might be melting? Honestly if i lose all my plants i may look to start over entirely. Would a regular gravel and dosing thrive be a better application? Im looking for a heavily planted tank for my only filtration

 

[somewhatshocked]

Ideally you would not let your ammonia be over 2ppm if you can help it and less would be better.

Not sure where that figure comes from but 2PPM isn't always enough to support the bioload of a couple dozen small animals - fish and shrimp combined. Less is definitely not always better. Really depends upon the bioload one wants to house when they stock their tank. But much higher concentrations of ammonia (than 2PPM) are fine for cycling planted tanks and most plants we keep in the hobby are absolutely fine with those higher concentrations. Even sensitive plants like Cryptocoryne or the most delicate mosses. Otherwise products like ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia would not have been used by millions of people to start tanks and millions more wouldn't have dosed their planted tanks to 4-5PPM ammonia in order to cycle them.

4PPM should not be a problem. I wouldn't blink an eye at it or even think about water changes unless the tank was hitting 7-8PPM on a regular basis. And even then, it'd probably only be a partial water change. Just have to have patience, @Jjc123, and let your tank get through this process. Nothing good happens fast in a planted tank.

The primary benefit of a fishless cycle is to be able to support the waste load of a fully stocked tank from day one. You typically want more ammonia than your livestock will produce so you know your system will be able to handle it without having to expand its nitrifying bacterial colonies.

EDIT - Something else to consider for tiny tanks like this: ammonia levels need to be higher during a fishless cycle than in larger tanks with more water volume. What a couple tiny critters produce in a tank like this ends up being a huge deal. Likely wouldn't be much of an issue at all in 20-30 gallons of water.

Would a regular gravel and dosing thrive be a better application? Im looking for a heavily planted tank for my only filtration

You can choose either method you prefer. Dirted tanks work. Tanks with inert substrates like sand or gravel work. One is not better than the other. Remember, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of ways to have a planted tank. Source: the tens of thousands of tank journals in the Tank Journals section.

Some of your plants are melting because they're adjusting to being submerged and in some cases to new parameters. It's not at all uncommon in newly established tanks. Most of your melt appears (based on the photos) to be from emergent growth converting to submerged growth.

 

[minorhero]

Not sure where that figure comes from but 2PPM isn't always enough to support the bioload of a couple dozen small animals - fish and shrimp combined. Less is definitely not always better. Really depends upon the bioload one wants to house when they stock their tank. But much higher concentrations of ammonia (than 2PPM) are fine for cycling planted tanks and most plants we keep in the hobby are absolutely fine with those higher concentrations. Even sensitive plants like Cryptocoryne or the most delicate mosses. Otherwise products like ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia would not have been used by millions of people to start tanks and millions more wouldn't have dosed their planted tanks to 4-5PPM ammonia in order to cycle them.

4PPM should not be a problem. I wouldn't blink an eye at it or even think about water changes unless the tank was hitting 7-8PPM on a regular basis. And even then, it'd probably only be a partial water change. Just have to have patience,

I got nothing definitive. Just my own personal observations that cycles that go over 2ppm tend to take longer to finish then those that stay under that amount.

Once I have a tank cycled, I've never had a problem with it going through a mini cycle afterwards either, but admittedly, I prefer to stock all my tanks on the lighter side of things.

That stinks! I have seen so many dirted tanks become successfull i wanted to try myself. Did i make a mistake by doing one? Is there any reason my plants might be melting? Honestly if i lose all my plants i may look to start over entirely. Would a regular gravel and dosing thrive be a better application? Im looking for a heavily planted tank for my only filtration

As somewhatshocked said, dirted tanks do work. It's not that you made a mistake, so much as that they are more of a pain to deal with in many ways then either inert substrate tanks, or tanks with aquasoil type substrates. People tout them as the definitive 'easy' method for planted tanks, but the only advantage a dirted tank has over said, aquasoil, is cost. And cost difference between dirt and a bag of aquasoil is the price of the aquasoil (about 10 to 50 dollars depending on the brand of aquasoil and the bag size).

Anyway, you can make your tank work the way it is, but you got to put some work in. To be fair, this is the same work you would be doing with an aquasoil tank. When the substrate is new, it releases a LOT of nutrients and doing daily big water changes for the first week is expected. Then in the second week you tend to do a big water change every other day. 3 times in week 3 and twice in week 4. Thereafter once a week for the life of the tank. In anywhere from 2 months to a year you will notice your plants not growing as quickly in a dirt tank, at that point adding fertilizer like thrive is a very good idea.

 

[somewhatshocked]

cycles that go over 2ppm tend to take longer to finish then those that stay under that amount.

A tank definitely 'cycles' faster with less ammonia. That's for sure. Especially in tanks with more than a few gallons of water.

Unfortunately in tiny tanks, it's tougher to work through an ammonia spike once livestock is in the tank. Especially with less resilient invertebrates and being relatively fresh to the hobby. Just doesn't take much to cause an ammonia spike in a small setup. Slight overfeeding is no big deal in a 10-20gal tank. But it can be a recipe for disaster in 3-4 gallons of water.

It's one of the reasons I cycle my own tiny tanks for several weeks longer than necessary so I can make sure everything is well established. I've rarely regretted being over-prepared but have almost always regretted being under-prepared.

but you got to put some work in.

This x1000. I tend to think the effort required becomes incredibly valuable in this hobby. It helps people like us realize why we aren't always fans of dirted tanks. I especially loathe them when there's any other option available. I still have dirted tanks and tanks with dirt/clay-based substrates, though. I also tend to steer people away from products like ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia or Tropica for the same reasons you do unless they have a specific goal in mind that they can't accomplish as easily without the substrate. But unless someone tries a dirted setup or a tank with an ADA substrate product, they don't have direct experience using them in order to determine their likes or dislikes.

In my opinion, @Jjc123, I think you should just roll with it because you've already got it set up. There won't be a ton of effort once you get everything established and stable. Your plants will melt and things will change a lot over the next few weeks and in the early months. Some will do well without pressurized CO2 and others just won't. You'll just have to put in some effort. You'd already be putting in effort on a weekly basis anyway because it's a small tank - regardless of your substrate choice. And, realistically, you'd also likely be changing the tank up within a few years no matter what. Or much sooner. Because that's the nature of the hobby for most of us. So try it out. See how it goes. Figure out what you like and aren't a fan of. It'll really make the hobby a lot more enjoyable for you in the long run once you have the experience under the belt.

If you really dislike the setup, you can even start over with livestock in the tank. You'll just have to make an effort to temporarily house your critters in a separate container while redoing your tank and making sure there's not a mini cycle. That can be as simple as a 5gal bucket or as complex as a second tank. It's a lot less overwhelming than it sounds if you're methodical about it. And you obviously will be methodical because you've put in a ton of effort with your tank already.

Don't be afraid to fail here. We always try to steer people toward success but... making mistakes and/or failing with a particular tank can still be enjoyable and not just valuable for the learning experience. Just have to tackle issues as they arise.

 

[Jjc123]

A tank definitely 'cycles' faster with less ammonia. That's for sure. Especially in tanks with more than a few gallons of water.

Unfortunately in tiny tanks, it's tougher to work through an ammonia spike once livestock is in the tank. Especially with less resilient invertebrates and being relatively fresh to the hobby. Just doesn't take much to cause an ammonia spike in a small setup. Slight overfeeding is no big deal in a 10-20gal tank. But it can be a recipe for disaster in 3-4 gallons of water.

It's one of the reasons I cycle my own tiny tanks for several weeks longer than necessary so I can make sure everything is well established. I've rarely regretted being over-prepared but have almost always regretted being under-prepared.



This x1000. I tend to think the effort required becomes incredibly valuable in this hobby. It helps people like us realize why we aren't always fans of dirted tanks. I especially loathe them when there's any other option available. I still have dirted tanks and tanks with dirt/clay-based substrates, though. I also tend to steer people away from products like ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia or Tropica for the same reasons you do unless they have a specific goal in mind that they can't accomplish as easily without the substrate. But unless someone tries a dirted setup or a tank with an ADA substrate product, they don't have direct experience using them in order to determine their likes or dislikes.

In my opinion, @Jjc123, I think you should just roll with it because you've already got it set up. There won't be a ton of effort once you get everything established and stable. Your plants will melt and things will change a lot over the next few weeks and in the early months. Some will do well without pressurized CO2 and others just won't. You'll just have to put in some effort. You'd already be putting in effort on a weekly basis anyway because it's a small tank - regardless of your substrate choice. And, realistically, you'd also likely be changing the tank up within a few years no matter what. Or much sooner. Because that's the nature of the hobby for most of us. So try it out. See how it goes. Figure out what you like and aren't a fan of. It'll really make the hobby a lot more enjoyable for you in the long run once you have the experience under the belt.

If you really dislike the setup, you can even start over with livestock in the tank. You'll just have to make an effort to temporarily house your critters in a separate container while redoing your tank and making sure there's not a mini cycle. That can be as simple as a 5gal bucket or as complex as a second tank. It's a lot less overwhelming than it sounds if you're methodical about it. And you obviously will be methodical because you've put in a ton of effort with your tank already.

Don't be afraid to fail here. We always try to steer people toward success but... making mistakes and/or failing with a particular tank can still be enjoyable and not just valuable for the learning experience. Just have to tackle issues as they arise.

So much info from both of you. I appreciate it more than you know. What are both of your preferences when it comes to substrates with planted tanks? Is there a specific brand or substrate you like the best? Im actually not opposed to starting over either as time is on my side. I dont have anything more than a few snails and plants right now that seem to be a bit overcrowded anyway. Id actually like to know your step by step setup when you first start a tank. That would go a long way for me.

 

[somewhatshocked]

What are both of your preferences when it comes to substrates with planted tanks?

I can only speak for myself but I don't have a fixed preference. There are tons of different substrates. I have many tanks. They're seriously all different. No one method is my favorite.

Is there a specific brand or substrate you like the best?

No. There is no such thing as "best" when it comes to planted tanking. Not even for substrates. There are a million different ways to accomplish the same or similar goals. Not every substrate will work with every planted tank plan. That's where doing more research, reading (avoid YouTube in the beginning - until you can easily spot what's hype and what's not), scrolling through dozens of tank journals and figuring out what you like and don't like comes into play. Literally scroll through Tank Journal photos and find what you like the look of the most. I'm old hat at this and if I don't think something is pretty or attractive? I'm not wasting my time with it. So don't feel bad about going with what you love the most.

Most of what @minorhero uses isn't even meant for aquariums. Same for me and many, many others. While I have every substrate you can imagine in my stash? My latest setup was fine, quartz-ish gravel I bought at a landscaping supply company for like $20 per 500lbs. The one before that used an XL Aqua substrate I imported from Japan. One before that was dark-ish pool filter sand I've used and reused since probably 2008. I dose ferts a few times a week in some, never in some, use root tabs in others.

Id actually like to know your step by step setup when you first start a tank. That would go a long way for me.

That's also something that isn't set in stone. There are a million different ways to set up a tank. And emulating what we do for our tanks will not work for you. Probably wouldn't even work for the two of us if we swapped methods. Because they're specific to our systems and vary from tank-to-tank.

But generally? You should read some basic planted tank guides. This is a solid beginner guide (non-referral amazon link, free with prime) written by @Wasserpest. It used to be sold here on the forum. Then go through the stickied posts in each section of the forum. Read through tons of tank journals. Watch how different people set up different types of tanks. Look at tanks that house the kind of livestock you want to house. Check out the specific plants you want to keep. Take notes. Ask questions. And I promise you'll be able to figure out what's ideal for you within a week or two.

 

[Jjc123]

I can only speak for myself but I don't have a fixed preference. There are tons of different substrates. I have many tanks. They're seriously all different. No one method is my favorite.



No. There is no such thing as "best" when it comes to planted tanking. Not even for substrates. There are a million different ways to accomplish the same or similar goals. Not every substrate will work with every planted tank plan. That's where doing more research, reading (avoid YouTube in the beginning - until you can easily spot what's hype and what's not), scrolling through dozens of tank journals and figuring out what you like and don't like comes into play. Literally scroll through Tank Journal photos and find what you like the look of the most. I'm old hat at this and if I don't think something is pretty or attractive? I'm not wasting my time with it. So don't feel bad about going with what you love the most.

Most of what @minorhero uses isn't even meant for aquariums. Same for me and many, many others. While I have every substrate you can imagine in my stash? My latest setup was fine, quartz-ish gravel I bought at a landscaping supply company for like $20 per 500lbs. The one before that used an XL Aqua substrate I imported from Japan. One before that was dark-ish pool filter sand I've used and reused since probably 2008. I dose ferts a few times a week in some, never in some, use root tabs in others.



That's also something that isn't set in stone. There are a million different ways to set up a tank. And emulating what we do for our tanks will not work for you. Probably wouldn't even work for the two of us if we swapped methods. Because they're specific to our systems and vary from tank-to-tank.

But generally? You should read some basic planted tank guides. This is a solid beginner guide (non-referral amazon link, free with prime) written by @Wasserpest. It used to be sold here on the forum. Then go through the stickied posts in each section of the forum. Read through tons of tank journals. Watch how different people set up different types of tanks. Look at tanks that house the kind of livestock you want to house. Check out the specific plants you want to keep. Take notes. Ask questions. And I promise you'll be able to figure out what's ideal for you within a week or two.

I think im going to switch to eco-complete and dose thrive c. Do you think id need root tabs or could i get away without them? Could i cap the eco complete with play sand or should i leave some exposed in order to soak up some of the nutrients from the water column as well? I dont plan on ever using co2 so liquid ferts/carbon are going to be my method that i know for sure. I want to rearrange my plants and scape a bit either way so im ok with switching my substrate now before things get too far

 

[somewhatshocked]

I think im going to switch to eco-complete

Eco Complete is inert. Basalt. Crushed lava rock. It provides nothing for plants. You'd be better off going with any other, cheaper gravel or just plain black sand from Petco.

Do you think id need root tabs or could i get away without them?

I mean... you really need to read more and make these decisions yourself. We can't do the work for you. That should not come across as insulting but as encouragement to be an active participant in the hobby. Having a good, foundational understanding of what you want and what you need for your specific tank will make this type of decision easy.

The type of fertilizer you use, how much you use and how frequently will depend on lighting, CO2 and the plants you choose.

liquid ferts/carbon are going to be my method

Liquid carbon/CO2 is not actually a thing in this hobby. It's unfortunately misleading. Excel is effectively glutaraldehyde - an algaecide. It's really not something you should be using with the livestock you want to keep. It strips the surface film and top layer off some plants to allow their pores to be more exposed so they can absorb nutrients. It doesn't actually accomplish the same thing as using pressurized CO2. You also can't/shouldn't use it with some delicate species of plant that are common in the hobby. If you don't want to use CO2, you need to go with a low-tech setup with undemanding plants.

im ok with switching my substrate now before things get too far

Really, I think you just need to read a lot more. You don't have to switch anything up. You just have to understand what you're doing before you do it. Spend a week or two reading, going through tank journals, taking notes, keeping tabs on what you figure out, like, dislike, et al. That's legitimately the best way to be prepared for your tank. You already have it all set up, so there's no rush. Once you have a better understanding, none of these questions will seem like a big deal to you. I promise.

I can tell just by looking at your tank that you already have the skillset you'll need to have a terrific tank. You have the ability to make what you already have set up thrive. It's not as complicated as you think it's going to be.

 

[Jjc123]

Eco Complete is inert. Basalt. Crushed lava rock. It provides nothing for plants. You'd be better off going with any other, cheaper gravel or just plain black sand from Petco.



I mean... you really need to read more and make these decisions yourself. We can't do the work for you. That should not come across as insulting but as encouragement to be an active participant in the hobby. Having a good, foundational understanding of what you want and what you need for your specific tank will make this type of decision easy.

The type of fertilizer you use, how much you use and how frequently will depend on lighting, CO2 and the plants you choose.



Liquid carbon/CO2 is not actually a thing in this hobby. It's unfortunately misleading. Excel is effectively glutaraldehyde - an algaecide. It's really not something you should be using with the livestock you want to keep. It strips the surface film and top layer off some plants to allow their pores to be more exposed so they can absorb nutrients. It doesn't actually accomplish the same thing as using pressurized CO2. You also can't/shouldn't use it with some delicate species of plant that are common in the hobby. If you don't want to use CO2, you need to go with a low-tech setup with undemanding plants.



Really, I think you just need to read a lot more. You don't have to switch anything up. You just have to understand what you're doing before you do it. Spend a week or two reading, going through tank journals, taking notes, keeping tabs on what you figure out, like, dislike, et al. That's legitimately the best way to be prepared for your tank. You already have it all set up, so there's no rush. Once you have a better understanding, none of these questions will seem like a big deal to you. I promise.

I can tell just by looking at your tank that you already have the skillset you'll need to have a terrific tank. You have the ability to make what you already have set up thrive. It's not as complicated as you think it's going to be.

Ok i think ive decided to just go with all play sand substrate. Easy to clean and plant in. I can put in root tabs ever month or so as well as dose thrive weekly. This is exactly how i had my planted tank 10 yrs ago and it worked for me then so it should work for me again. I dont know why i strayed from the success i had previously. I know substrate, specifically play sand is highly debated but its worked for me and many others so im happy with the decision. I also have a shallow tank so i cant have a deep sand bed anyway which wont be compacted. I like the look of light sand as opposed to aquasoils and black substrates. I also dont want to have leeching soils of ammonia and messy decomposting issues. Yes maintenance may be more for me now with keeping up with ferts but i think its a good trade off for not worrying about calculating additional nutrients in the water column.

 

[Jjc123]

done deal. I removed all the dirt and old sand. My nitrites were finally present at.5 as well as ammonia down to .5 when i removed it all. I stopped at ace and picked up pool filter sand. Today i rescaped and cleaned everything.Prior to me switching out the dirt my ammonia was through the roof and my ph was at 7.4. After switching my cycle will have to be restarted however my ph is back to a better 6.8 (tap water). I dosed my first dose of thrive c, lowered my lights to 6 hrs and planted root tabs. I moved a few plants around and am thrilled with how easy pfs is to plant in. Overall im much happier and more comfortable. I dont think ill ever use dirt again as it seems to leech too much into the water column. My ramshorn and nerite snails are awesome btw. Theyre amazing at cleaning the algae up quickly. Hope the ramshorn reproduce.I began to redose ammonia at 3ppm and hope my cycle is a bit faster than prior. Wish me luck