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how big around?

  • A kuhli loach is slim enough to fit through a Bic pen casing.

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  • A dwarf puffer could fit through a Bic pen casing

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  • A dwarf puffer could swim into an API test tube

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  • A dwarf puffer is too big to swim into an API test tube

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For my new tank I am trying to design an entry tunnel that a kuhli loach could swim through, but a dwarf pea puffer could not. Can anyone tell me how big around each of these fish is? Do you think the puffer could swim into an API test tube? could a Kuhli swim through the casing for a Bic pen? any other comparisons, or diameters you could give me would be extremely helpful.
 

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lol, if you think a gap or hole is too small and there is no way a fish could ever get in there, and boy it would be a pain to fish something from behind there..... then a kuhli will enter it in minutes....
 

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This is pretty hard to answer, but it also depends on how old the puffer is. They don't get that big and they also aren't prone to swimming into tiny crevices, in my experience. However, the loach certainly would get into any small opening it could. I would think a puffer wouldn't try to get into anything about 7mm in diameter but a loach would. You never know though...
 

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I was going to say, my answers to those questions would depend on how recently the puffer has eaten. When they're full, they're very rotund. If they aren't doing well, they'll be quite slim.

Kuhli loaches, on the other hand, will swim into anything and everything, including things they are physically too large to fit into.

I have some in my sump who are clearly fatter than the openings in the overflow, and yet there they are.
 

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It depends on the age of the Kuhli and puffer, more so being dependent on their size/girth, which can vary depending on Kuhli species.

For example a young Kuhli is about the thickness of those espresso straws (the very skinny ones), where as the typical adult Kuhlis are the thickness of, maybe a bit girthier than your typical round shoelace (sorry can't really think of a better example that is consistent in size). I am being pretty broad there as different Kuhli (pangio) species vary, such as Giant Kuhli loaches (Pangio myersi) is maybe the thickness of a fountain drink straw or API test tube.

Dwarf puffer (assuming you mean Pea puffer) depends on it's age/sex as well, where a young one could swim down a API test tube. For it to swim down a Bic pen casing, it would be really young.

Now that is how thick they are, I am not certain if they could swim down something as slim as that (a hole yes, but a extended tunnel/tube, I don't know). Maybe they can, maybe they can't, I am not entirely sure. That is how girthy they are, but remember they propel themselves in the same manner a eel or snake does, by "wiggling" it's body.

I saw your other thread on the red light and the Under Gravel Filter. I have read of some people finding out their, what they though were missing Kuhli loaches, were actually found under their UGF, alive, and had bred, with a bunch of babies living under the UGF and within the gravel.

I think if you used the UGF and left the "air tube" ports uncapped, the kuhli's could get under the UGF plates. The puffer would be able to hover down into the tube ports, but wouldn't be able to swim around under the plates themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks everyone.
This is pretty hard to answer, but it also depends on how old the puffer is. They don't get that big and they also aren't prone to swimming into tiny crevices, in my experience. However, the loach certainly would get into any small opening it could. I would think a puffer wouldn't try to get into anything about 7mm in diameter but a loach would. You never know though...
I'll probably get the loaches first, to give them a chance to learn all of the hiding places in the tank, before the puffer moves in. You saying that puffers aren't prone to swimming into small spaces is reassuring. I'm a little worried about the puffer following a kuhli, through the entry tube to their den, and getting stuck.
 

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My Kuhli loaches ended up breeding underneath the undergravel filter plates. They'd go up and down the lift tubes regularly, but could also squirm their way under the plates from the gravel alone.

If you want to get them to breed, I found that larger gravel sizes seemed to make the biggest difference. (playing marble size, to maybe 1/2 a playing marble for rock size range) It gave them plenty of space to swim around in the rocks, and for the rocks to collect detritus which the babies basically just swim around in an munch on.

I started with 6 loaches, ended up with around 20 or so. The babies looked like tiny, very fast worms in the gravel.

The tank had a bunch of plants and a larger piece of driftwood in the center, so there were huge areas of the gravel that were never vacuumed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It depends on the age of the Kuhli and puffer, more so being dependent on their size/girth, which can vary depending on Kuhli species.

For example a young Kuhli is about the thickness of those espresso straws (the very skinny ones), where as the typical adult Kuhlis are the thickness of, maybe a bit girthier than your typical round shoelace (sorry can't really think of a better example that is consistent in size). I am being pretty broad there as different Kuhli (pangio) species vary, such as Giant Kuhli loaches (Pangio myersi) is maybe the thickness of a fountain drink straw or API test tube.

Dwarf puffer (assuming you mean Pea puffer) depends on it's age/sex as well, where a young one could swim down a API test tube. For it to swim down a Bic pen casing, it would be really young.

Now that is how thick they are, I am not certain if they could swim down something as slim as that (a hole yes, but a extended tunnel/tube, I don't know). Maybe they can, maybe they can't, I am not entirely sure. That is how girthy they are, but remember they propel themselves in the same manner a eel or snake does, by "wiggling" it's body.

I saw your other thread on the red light and the Under Gravel Filter. I have read of some people finding out their, what they though were missing Kuhli loaches, were actually found under their UGF, alive, and had bred, with a bunch of babies living under the UGF and within the gravel.

I think if you used the UGF and left the "air tube" ports uncapped, the kuhli's could get under the UGF plates. The puffer would be able to hover down into the tube ports, but wouldn't be able to swim around under the plates themselves.
Thank you, this is extremely helpful. Just making a hole in the top with out making an actual tunnel is a good idea, if the pea puffer won't follow the kuhli loaches down there. I guess one of my biggest fears with this design is that I'll have to rip up the whole tank because the puffer decided to chase something into the UGF, and couldn't get back up. Also as of now I'm planning on the common kuhli loaches that are almost always in stock at the LFS, probably Pangio kuhli.
 

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I have an adorable dwarf puffer who is fully grown (about 1 inch). Although slightly possible (highly unlikely) I HIGHLY doubt that a dwarf puffer could fit into something so small.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My Kuhli loaches ended up breeding underneath the undergravel filter plates. They'd go up and down the lift tubes regularly, but could also squirm their way under the plates from the gravel alone.

If you want to get them to breed, I found that larger gravel sizes seemed to make the biggest difference. (playing marble size, to maybe 1/2 a playing marble for rock size range) It gave them plenty of space to swim around in the rocks, and for the rocks to collect detritus which the babies basically just swim around in an munch on.

I started with 6 loaches, ended up with around 20 or so. The babies looked like tiny, very fast worms in the gravel.

The tank had a bunch of plants and a larger piece of driftwood in the center, so there were huge areas of the gravel that were never vacuumed.
It's only an 11 gallon tank so don't really want them to breed, but if it happens I'll have to re-home any newbies. From what everyone is saying, it sounds like the cage at the end of the HOB won't be enough to stop them from swimming up, even though the gaps are only 1/16 of an inch wide. I guess I'll have to cover it with some mesh.
 
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