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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I'm trying to respond to an algae problem in our 40 gallon planted community tank while keeping our Amano shrimp and nerite snail happy. The shrimp seem to hate (as in: die from) Flourish Excel so we discontinued that.

We have an Aquaray GroBEAM 600 Ultima LED light that we'd like to keep using, but when we use it the algae on our bacopa, anubias, sword and dwarf pennywort goes into overdrive.

We currently use Weco Wonder Shells to keep GH in the 8-12 range, and Seachem Alkaline Buffer to keep the pH at a very stable 7.6 (same as our tap water). Our mollies love these parameters and they seem to work for the Amanos and nerite snail.

I've been advised to use NilocG Thrive All in One for Ferts and this seems like a good idea for the plants, while having apparently very low Cu levels that won't hurt the shrimp (0.0004755 ppm).

Does anyone here think this is a bad idea?

I would underdose, given that I'm worried about the shrimp, our tank is not super heavily planted, and Wonder Shells seem to provide some of the same elements (as they apparently contain "calcium carbonate, sodium thiosulfate, and necessary trace elements including magnesium sulfate").

Also: I've been advised to dose CO2 but am really concerned about getting that wrong, crashing the pH or adding too much. I understand that plants need it but don't want to kill or stress any of our critters. Is dosing ferts without dosing CO2 a problem?

We have 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites, nitrates in 2-25 ppm range, weekly water change of 15 gallons (37.5%).
 

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Im running 1bps pressurized and the shrimps are doing fine...Ive read that dosing 0.37 cu is where it becomes toxic but am not 100% certain. Nilco also makes thrive S for shrimps:]
 

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I dose half EI which I believe is .005 ppm Cu in my tanks, and I've even dosed higher than that. I also feed them food with copper...

Shrimp NEED copper for proper blood function just like we need iron. It's when you have too much that it becomes a problem, so you just want to avoid excess.

I feel like outside of copper based meds, copper is not going to be an issue at the levels found in ferts or most tap water.

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I use excel with my fire red RCS and amanos to no I'll effect, I'm surprised it caused you an issue... I also dose ferts without co2 injection but don't use the nilocg. You may want to look at your photo period and reduce the time the lights are on or give a siesta during the day of 4-5 hours if you want viewing in the morning and evening under full lighting.

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My own research on copper indicates 0.03 PPM is probably deadly for shrimp and maybe fish. Brine shrimp are doing well in the great salt lake even though to copper level is about 0.012 PPM Copper is in all likelihood is safe at 0.005 PPM. The biggest problem i found in my research is that everyone is saying it is bad but no one knows what the safe or dangerous levels are. Finding any actual useful data was difficult.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many micro nutrients are toxic if overdosed. Zinc behaves much like copper. Iron under the right conditions and damage gills and suffocate fish. Copper might not be the deadliest metal in fertilizers. It is however the most talked about.
 

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My own research on copper indicates 0.03 PPM is probably deadly for shrimp and maybe fish. Brine shrimp are doing well in the great salt lake even though to copper level is about 0.012 PPM Copper is in all likelihood is safe at 0.005 PPM. The biggest problem i found in my research is that everyone is saying it is bad but no one knows what the safe or dangerous levels are. Finding any actual useful data was difficult.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many micro nutrients are toxic if overdosed. Zinc behaves much like copper. Iron under the right conditions and damage gills and suffocate fish. Copper might not be the deadliest metal in fertilizers. It is however the most talked about.
You are dead on.. no one knows or will say what toxic levels are for micronutrient's as applied with popular dosing schemes.
Could be because they are little more than traces applied.
Should someone indeed report what they perceive to be toxic level's,,it would take but only a few using considerably more, to cast doubt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi and thanks so much - just saw this response. We were definitely leaving the lights on too long so we got a timer (which we occasionally override). We do 3 hours of light in the morning and 4 in the evening and it does seem to be helping with the algae. Didn't realize how very handy the timer was going to be.

Bump:
I use excel with my fire red RCS and amanos to no I'll effect, I'm surprised it caused you an issue... I also dose ferts without co2 injection but don't use the nilocg. You may want to look at your photo period and reduce the time the lights are on or give a siesta during the day of 4-5 hours if you want viewing in the morning and evening under full lighting.

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Hi - just tried to respond to your post but it went into the general thread, sorry. New to this system!

Bump:
My own research on copper indicates 0.03 PPM is probably deadly for shrimp and maybe fish. Brine shrimp are doing well in the great salt lake even though to copper level is about 0.012 PPM Copper is in all likelihood is safe at 0.005 PPM. The biggest problem i found in my research is that everyone is saying it is bad but no one knows what the safe or dangerous levels are. Finding any actual useful data was difficult.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many micro nutrients are toxic if overdosed. Zinc behaves much like copper. Iron under the right conditions and damage gills and suffocate fish. Copper might not be the deadliest metal in fertilizers. It is however the most talked about.
Thanks for this - yet another reason to be cautious with the ThriveS that arrived in the mail but that we've not yet used. Our Amanos and ghost shrimp seem happy and active and are finally starting to venure out of the rock cave more often and overcome fear of the fish. If I use the Thrive I will super underdose. Don't want to rock the boat.
 

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When just starting a ferts routine in a tank it's never a bad idea to start low and work into a full dosing routine. It can upset even some plants if they are not used to it. :) watch your stock and your plants and stick to your routine, you'll likely find that within a few weeks of regular dosing and small increases that they are perfectly happy and healthy at the full recommend dosage. :) My fry tanks even get standard ferts the same as the rest of my tanks. :)

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