[johnson18]

@Nlewis @TheDude1 What are your thoughts on putting two male & three female A. urteagai into the 40b? I've been unable to find info as to if this species breeds as pairs, trios, or harems. The tank will be loaded up with enough manzanita to scape a 75, plus loads of leaf litter, seed pods as well as several of the little clay caves. I will try to grow some vals/Crypts and dwarf sag around randomly too.

Also please check out the question above about tank journals. Thanks guys!


Edit: looks like A. urteagai is in the A.-regani-Group, resticulosa-Complex. Which from what I can find means that the males should be opportunistically polygamous. That might mean that a 2m/3f combo might work if I provide enough hiding spots and line of sight breaks. Thoughts?


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[Nlewis]

@Nlewis @TheDude1 What are your thoughts on putting two male & three female A. urteagai into the 40b? I've been unable to find info as to if this species breeds as pairs, trios, or harems. The tank will be loaded up with enough manzanita to scape a 75, plus loads of leaf litter, seed pods as well as several of the little clay caves. I will try to grow some vals/Crypts and dwarf sag around randomly too.

Also please check out the question above about tank journals. Thanks guys!


Edit: looks like A. urteagai is in the A.-regani-Group, resticulosa-Complex. Which from what I can find means that the males should be opportunistically polygamous. That might mean that a 2m/3f combo might work if I provide enough hiding spots and line of sight breaks. Thoughts?


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I don’t see a question regarding tank journals.

If it were me I’d do 2 trios or maybe even 2 pairs. The problem I had with the Caca trio was one female ended up “the odd man out”. It was to the point I thought they were going to kill and I had to remove her. I just don’t like when fish become super aggressive and I’ll get rid of them when they do. If they’re breeding that’s different and a parent will protect their young, so that gets a pass. In the end, every fish is different temperament wise, so go with your gut.

 

[johnson18]

Thanks @Nlewis!! I appreciate you opinion on this as you've definitely got more Apisto experience than I do. I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to Apistos & certainly didn't go with the easy beginner species. I'll check with my buddy who has to A. urteagai juveniles to see what he has available as far as sex ratios & numbers. I don't think I want more than two males but I guess I could go up to like 2-3(4?) females per male. Do you think going with more females, like 3f/1m, might help reduce the aggression toward the extra female since rather than one extra female there would two extras per male. I know that if I add more females I will need to create a greater number of caves/territories & have more line of sight breaks. I will definitely have an out for these extras in case the aggression gets too bad.

My tank journal question was if I should create a separate 40b blackwater tank journal or if I just post it all in this rack thread?


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[Nlewis]

Thanks @Nlewis!! I appreciate you opinion on this as you've definitely got more Apisto experience than I do. I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to Apistos & certainly didn't go with the easy beginner species. I'll check with my buddy who has to A. urteagai juveniles to see what he has available as far as sex ratios & numbers. I don't think I want more than two males but I guess I could go up to like 2-3(4?) females per male. Do you think going with more females, like 3f/1m, might help reduce the aggression toward the extra female since rather than one extra female there would two extras per male. I know that if I add more females I will need to create a greater number of caves/territories & have more line of sight breaks. I will definitely have an out for these extras in case the aggression gets too bad.

My tank journal question was if I should create a separate 40b blackwater tank journal or if I just post it all in this rack thread?


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Yeah make a separate one and I’ll sub that one too.

Going with a higher female ratio is probably okay. Again, only time will tell in regards to aggression. It depends on the fish that you have. My Baenschi did fine with 2m/4f, the males just had their own territory and the females interacted fine with each other. Frankly I never even really had aggression between the males when they wondered into each other’s space.

 

[The Dude1]

I agree with different journals. Its easier to keep things organized. What else would you put in the 40b? I don't know enough about Apisto's to offer any advice. I would definately add both groups at the same time. Either way that will be cool. I'm going to try to add another pair to both tanks at some point.

 

[johnson18]

I agree with different journals. Its easier to keep things organized. What else would you put in the 40b? I don't know enough about Apisto's to offer any advice. I would definately add both groups at the same time. Either way that will be cool. I'm going to try to add another pair to both tanks at some point.

So my original plan for stocking the 40b was:
2 pairs of Apistogramma urteagai

~25 Nannostomus trifasciatus - Three-lined Pencilfish

~15 Carnegiella strigata - Marbled Hatchetfish

2-3 L066 Hypancistrus sp. - King Tiger or Scribbled pleco


Now I think it is going to be closer to this:
2 males & 6 females of Apisto. urteagai
~25 or less Nannostomus trifasciatus - Three-lined Pencilfish
Along with one of the following options:

2-3L066 Hypancistrus sp. - King Tiger or Scribbled pleco- preferably a M/F combo
OR
10-15 Otocinclus

Im not a fan of mixing the different Apisto species together. I know you can mix the different groups together but I don't see the point of risking the possibility of hybrids. I would much rather put a larger number of the same species together.

I think the original stock list would be ok in the tank but not if I want the Apistos to breed and successfully raise offspring.

I will make a separate journal for the blackwater 40b in the next few days.


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[The Dude1]

Will the dominant male tolerate a subordinate in a 3' tank? I very much understand the hybrid concern. My ultimate issue is the Gold Caucatoides. If it were me with what little experience I have I would only do a single male unless you have a solid option to move him.
Will those Plecos not rasp plants? Every type I've ever had (not those) damage plants. I would likely do some combination of Corys, Oto's, and Amano shrimp, or Nerites.

 

[johnson18]

I picked up some pygmy corydoras at the local club meeting today. They went into the 10g with the rocks as the first fish in the tank. Within an hour of being released they were swimming actively throughout the whole tank.

Also got a pair of Pseudomugil gertrudae 'aru iv'. Honestly, they just went in with the rest of my Gertrude's. I think they will be moved into a different tank where they can be seen. It will probably just be a small tank full of spawning mops. I'd like to get a large group of these to use in a display tank. Currently I've got around 10 total.

Picked up a third pair of Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish. I'd like to switch up a couple things within their current tank to encourage breeding. This may end up being one tank for spawning & another where the adults reside once the fry are free swimming.

I'm planning to work more with the Aphyosemion cinnamoneum for breeding. One thing to start is that I bought two big bags of guppy grass and two of Java moss. I stuffed all of it into the 5.5g that they are in. This may allow any young males to go ahead and develop as they aren't constantly in the presence of the main male. The adult male was already showing some nice breeding colors this morning.

I also picked up two more 20g tanks and a couple 5.5. I'm debating returning the two 5.5g and swapping for either another 20g or some more 10s. I'd like to find some 2.5g tanks for my killifish breeding but Petco doesn't sell them.

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[johnson18]

I need to replace the ballasts on my 48" T5HO dual lamp fixture that I will use on the bottom of this rack over the 20g tanks. I plan to hang this fixture so that it isn't high light or anything close. Does anyone have experience doing this? I've replaced plenty of ballast on other non-aquarium fixtures, so I'm not worried about that part. From what I've read, the Fulham Workhorse is the go to best replacement. Anyone used them? I may actually go ahead and replace the one on my 55's light too as that fixture is about a year older than the one with the bad ballasts. Both fixtures could use new bulbs, although the fixture for the rack probably won't get them first.


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[johnson18]

If you've seen the above pic, you might already know that the "pygmy corys" that I got were obviously not Corydoras pygmaeus. After a bit of looking to determine if they were C. hasbrosus or C. hastatus, we decided they are hasbrosus. I went by ANA and grabbed several more, pretty sure the 10g rock tank now has 10 Corydoras hasbrosus. I haven't yet decided what else to put in that tank so it'll sit there a while with the corys.

There is a good bit of detritus left from some of the melting plants throughout the cycle. I've so far been unsuccessful at removing it all. I keep removing what I can but it doesn't seem to make a dent. Hopefully once the plants have a few more weeks to fully establish root systems I can just siphon off the top layer of sand and all the detritus along with it.


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[johnson18]

I finally rearranged the tanks in order to clear space to set up the 90p. I’ve got pretty much everything I need for that tank build. I’ve left a spot for my Mr. Aqua all the way on the right side where the cardboard lid currently holds some supplies.

When I moved these tanks around, I also took the time to rerun the air lines to all the sponge filters. I hooked two 4-way gang valves together in line. This allows me to run only one air pump. I’m running the TopFin 4000 adjustable air pump. I’ve got several of these around the house. The second one which I removed today will be used on my second rack which will primarily have small tanks(2.5, 5.5, 10max!), along with shoeboxes and small cups to age eggs in.

A friend gave me multiple heaters today, they’re going into specific tanks that need temps higher than the low 70’s it will be nice once I set up the 20h tanks for some Apistos.

The current emersed tanks, the 20L and 55 will be combined into either a 10 or 20g tank. There are really only a couple plants I absolutely have to salvage from these emersed tanks, pretty much everywhere else is in other tanks too. I’ve got a semi-aquatic orchid that pretty much only grows emersed. That plant may be the main plant in the smaller emersed tank

Ok, So I’ve got a bucket full of Crypt balansae and leopard val from a buddy. I will be adding a bunch to several of these tanks. The leopard val will be one of the main plants in the back of my 90p. I’m definitely gonna have a bunch of extras of both species though.

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[GMYukonon24s]

The cories you have are c. habrosus. I just picked up some c. habrosus and c. pygmaeus to add new genes to the tank at local auction yesterday. Leopard Val is a great easy grass. You have alot of happy fish in those tanks.

 

[johnson18]

Everything on the rack has been doing well. Well, mostly. Overall, I’m pleased with the way things are progressing. There are a definitely a few negatives, but that’s what way things go. I’ve picked up several new species of Killifish, lots of Crypt. parva, and some new lights. The rack is still in the same room, but we’ve swapped the office and my bedroom so that the rack is now in the office/fishroom. Which is actually pretty cool, because I can go ahead and set up my killifish tanks while not worrying about the extra noise of more sponge filters.

I’ll try to break this update down by tank. Hopefully that will make things easier to follow along, or skip through to whatever you wanna read.

10g rock scape

I lost several of the Corydoras hasbrosus when I went to San Diego for the weekend. Since I was planning to pick up several pairs of killifish I had put new sponge filters into several of my tanks. The one I tossed into the 10g rock tank was attached to the front glass, using both suction cups which meant the sponges were right against the glass. The fish tried to swim between the sponge and the glass where they got stuck. I haven’t replaced them yet, so I’ve just got four left. The school of hasbrosus will be rebuilt though, I’d like to have a big group, maybe 10-15 of them.

While in SD I bought pretty much all of the Cryptocoryne parva that I could find, about half of it went into this tank. One shop had small round clumps, maybe 1-1.5” diameter, of submersed grown parva for only $2.99! I bought all of them. All of this C. parva went into the 10g rock tank with the corys and Apistogramma erythrura pair. There was already 15+ individual parva plants in the tank. The addition of these clumps has made for a nice thick planting of Crypt parva all along the edge of the rocks in the front half of the tank.

The plants are all growing. After the original planting, the leopard val all melted away & didn’t grow back. I finally planted some more a few weeks ago, it has all done alright. The H. quadricostatus are all throwing out new leaves. I’m excited to see how this plant grows.

The Apistogramma erythrura are definitely much happier in this tank rather than the 20L in the living room. There’s actually less plant coverage(though it is quickly filling in) but there is far less activity in the room & fewer fish in the tank. I’d like to move them to their own 20H as I get them up and running.

The female hides in this little rock cave. It’s kinda cool because all of the microsword I planted in front of the cave is starting to grow over the front. I’m pretty sure that within a month or so she will be completely hidden in there.

I think that I would eventually like to move the three pairs of Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish into this tank. I’ll have to create a couple more hiding spots but I recently ordered 10 Cobalt Apisto Huts. These are the smallest of the ceramic caves. I’ve got plenty of moss to cover them with. I’m trying to decide which moss to use in this tank. I know I should’ve done that prior to flooding the tank. Currently I’ve got three mosses on different stones- Peacock, Wave, & .... well, damn. I’m gonna have to look up that third one again.

Okay, I’ll update on the rest of the tanks later. Here’s a quick shot of the racks though.

Plus I have a pair of African annual killies breeding in this 5g bucket right now too.

Plus a shot of Harken looking all jealous bc the boys get to lay outside in the sun.

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[johnson18]

On to the new killifish!

The killifish that I recently added were all picked up at an AKA show in San Diego at the beginning of November. I bought six pairs, each of a different species. Unfortunately, I lost two pairs within a couple days of getting home. What I’m left with is four species of annual killifish, two African & two South American.

South American:

Nematolebias whitei ‘Cabo Frio’

Spectrolebias reticulatus ‘Rio Xingu’

African:

Nothobranchius korthause ‘Yellow’

Callopanchax monroviae ‘Paynesville L97’

None of those images are mine. I’ve definitely not gotten any good pics of these fish yet.

I need to come up with larger containers for these pairs to live in. The largest of them, the Callopanchax, will probably need a 10g tank as they can get fairly large, while the SAs could probably go into a 2.5(if they weren’t SOOOOO damn expensive!!) Talking with the Killi guys, it sounds like I should just use slightly larger plastic box. I’ve been thinking about taking one of my 20 longs and dividing it into either three or four smaller sections. I’ve got an old 20 long that has a couple chips & the silicon sucks, figured I could rip it apart & cut it to size. It doesn’t have to be pretty, just functional. I’m guessing it’s probably cheaper that building several small tanks individually.

All these fish are fairly young, but they should mature quickly. I think the Nothos are the oldest. They’re all currently being fed a combo of Bug Bites & live baby brine shrimp. I’ve got a grindal worm culture but started with a small amount & still waiting for it to get of useable size.

Here’s a shot of the Nothos at the show. They look way better now that they aren’t in a clear box. Lol. Actually, they’re in a 5g bucket.

The whitei male is looking awesome! Unfortunately I only ever get shots of him when he is in the corner of the container.

I’ll add more as I get better shots & figure out more about the tank/container situation.



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[someoldguy]

I'd try to get all the annuals into 5 gallon tanks . Remember you'll have containers of spawning media in the tank , plus you'll be feeding . You want to minimize food getting into the media . This is less important with the notho if you're using media like green sand or walnut shells as you'll be removing eggs daily or every few days , but is real important with peat divers . You don't want food decaying in the peat while the peat is in storage . Wide mouth jars , small drum bowls or the tops of 100 pack CD/DVD sleeves work well for peat diver spawning media containers , as do deep deli containers with a hole cut into the lid . Allow around 2" of peat in the container . I've always used stuff called 'NoDampOff' . Its peat (actually sphagnum moss) thats been milled into a very coarse powder , eliminating any sticks and twigs . Regular Garden Center peat will work , but around here the smallest you can get is a 1 cubic foot bale , which is enough for a lifetime unless you're a big shot breeder . The NoDampOff comes in smaller bags . Whatever you use , gotta boil it first to get it waterlogged .

 

[johnson18]

Thank you for all the information! I appreciate you sharing your experience!
Since I’ve got several 5.5g tanks, that’s the most likely option for all of these pairs. It has also been suggested that of all of these species, separating the Callopanchax is almost just a necessity due to the size they reach(5-6in from what one of the AKA judges said), it becomes more likely for the male to kill the female. If I don’t have enough 5.5g for each pair, along with one for each sex of the Callopanchax I might place the pair into a 10g. Dividing the 20L into thirds would easily allow me put 5g into each section. This might be preferable since the shelving unit the Killies are on is only 12” deep.

I’m planning to grab some of the glass candleholder bowls at the $1 store. This has been recommended by several people. I’ve picked up a big pack of the jiffy peat pellets, the ones with no added fertilizers. I’ve also got a big bag of the long strand sphagnum moss. The peat will be boiled. It was suggested that I place it at least as deep as the fish’s body length.

It was suggested that I place something over the top of the bowl for the N. whitei, leaving only a small entrance, so that the fish had to slightly push their way into the bowl.




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[someoldguy]

Dividing the 20 might be a good idea . If you split the tank into 3 sections , put the nothos in the middle and the South Americans at the ends . This way , should one of the SA females make it into the center section , you'll know where it came from . Don't know about the Monrovia getting 6" , but they do get big and separating the pair can't hurt . Never heard of using the fishes length as a guide to peat depth , but it can't hurt . Though I'd use at least 2" for smaller species like nigripinnis and minimus . Forgot all about Jiffy pellets , probably because I don't use them. But a lot of guys around here do . Here's a couple of mediocre images taken this afternoon of my whitei tank . It's a 20 long containing 4 or 5 pairs . Peat's in a 2 quart plastic drum bowl .
I think the reasoning behind the narrow opening suggested to you is to keep down mess as the fish dive . I don't let peat stay in the tank more than 2 weeks ... one's better . It shouldn't begin to turn black and smell nasty .
When you harvest the peat , pour it into a net . I usually run some room temperature tap water through the peat to clear out any detritus ( you may get a bit of rotten egg smell from the peat , this takes care of that) . Then squeeze the excess water from the peat , you want it moist , but not sopping dripping wet. Drop the ball of squeezed peat into a plastic bag , blow into the bag and shake it so the peat ball breaks up some . Then seal the bag , remembering to label it with species , harvest date , and wet date . Try 3 months as a start .

 

[johnson18]

I might have a serious problem with Pencilfish.

I just keep buying more species!

I added six Nannostomus marilynae, the Greenstripe Pencilfish, to the rock scaped 10g with the Apisto. erythrura & Corydoras hasbrosus. They are a beautiful species but one with quite subtle beauty. Unlike many pencils that have bright reds, these have no red on them. The light cream colored stripe above the main horizontal black stripe gets this amazing semi-iridescent green tint to it when the fish are happy and comfortable.

I needed something else in the tank as the Apistos were hiding too much. I think this will help them be more comfortable. Although, the more the plants continue to grow will also help quite a bit. I didn’t realize how much growth had been happening until I saw the pics I last posted in this thread. So much of it is low growing plants though, which does little to increase the comfort of the Apistos. Getting the 20g tanks going needs to be a priority over the next month while I’m out of school.

Onto the plans for the upcoming 20 gallon tanks!

I’ve slowly been gathering pieces of Malaysian driftwood to use in the 20g tanks. I can’t decide if I want to make them strictly blackwater tanks, or if I will plant them somewhat heavily. Either way they won’t be high tech tanks. Since there will be four 20g tanks I’m sure there will definitely be some variation from tank to tank.

My current plan is to use Black Diamond Blasting Sand as the substrate in all four tanks. I’ve used this in several tanks before and definitely like it. If I decide I want to actually plant a tank or two heavily I will probably pop for a 9L bag of ADA Amazonia. I’ve been super impressed at the growth in my blackwater 90p that has Amazonia under the sand cap.

Each tank will have at least two large dual sponge filters as filtration. I’ve got a case of sponge filters that each sponge is like 6”h x 3.5”w, so I think that will be sufficient filtration. I’ve probably got 4 or 5 that are currently cycled and in other tanks as extras right now.

I’ve picked up several 48” T5HO fixtures lately. My plan is still to hang one of these above the four tanks. I’ll be using slightly used bulbs though. As well as having the fixture maybe 12” above the tanks.

The tanks will also be painted black. I haven’t decided if I want to paint the sides, or leave the sides clear, which would allow any Apisto pairs to think they have competition though they don’t actually. I’ve seen this done in a number of Apisto breeding rack videos.


As a side note, I’m also planning to redo the 5.5 that currently has the Gertrude’s and Okefenokees. The rainbows will be moved into a different tank.

Here are some pics of the random fish in the overplanted 10g. The Apistogramma urteagai are looking good!

Edit: I also recently ordered a wild caught pair of Apistogramma atahualpa "Sunset" from Peru. Not sure they’ll go on a tank on this thread or the 20L in my living room. In the long run they may get shuffled around out of the first tank they go into.

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[The Dude1]

Your tanks look so natural... the size and position of the stones is in proportion... everything looks great! Have you have any Gertrude fry make it to adulthood yet??

 

[johnson18]

Thank you so much, El Duderino! I appreciate the complement. It was my first time working with stone for an aquascape & I definitely took my time with it.

I added four more Corydoras habrosus to the 10g rock scape. This brings the total up to 8 of them in there. Tossed a nice PFR shrimp from my plant stuffed 10g into the rock scape 10g to help with the algae. When I see another one or two around I will move them as well.

A couple days ago I added a few more microsword plugs around the tank. They also went into random areas of the blackwater tank, and my 20L. I’ve got a huge mass of Marselia hirsuta floating in my blackwater 90p at the moment. It will be planted in a number of tanks. Some of it will go in the 10g rock scape tank, along with my 20L and at least one of the upcoming 20H tanks.

(I will add a pic of this massive ball of MH once I get home this morning.)

This clump has to be several hundred nodes of MH. I’m currently spreading it throughout a bunch of tanks.

As you can see in the pics below, the rocks are growing some nice algae. I should have used some moss from the very beginning. I can’t get any to attach now. I have tried Peacock, Wave, & Willow. I need to just pull some buce and Anubias nana petite from my 55 to cover the stones.

The 10g rock scape got a Rio 50 added to it so that there would be a bit more water flow than was being provided by the sponge filter.

I have not bred my Gertrude’s yet. I need to move them to their own tank & toss in a couple spawning mops. This should happen sometime soon, as I need to build the Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish a new tank that is better suited for them the breed.

I think the Okefenokee’s might go into the Mr. Aqua 60p. I know some might think that it would be a waste of space, but I feel like this would give the three pairs plenty of space to breed. Plus it would clear the 5.5 out for the Gertrude’s to breed. Actually the 60p might be better for the Apisto pair out of the rock 10g, moving the Sunfish into that 10g.

I need to set up a 5.5 or 10g for my two pairs of guppies. The females are super prego(they seriously look like they’re about to pop!), but I know the babies won’t make it even in the heavily planted 10g. At least not while there are two trios of Apistogramma urteagai in there! Although, the shrimp population is still growing a little!


I went ahead and grabbed a bag of ADA Amazonia Light. Sounds like the normal Amazonia will be available around the first of the year. I’ll get a bag of that as well.


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