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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Nice photos :) , love the wildness of your tanks


Thanks Nate! These fish are super had to photograph! Not only are they fast little buggers, but their colors are incredibly difficult to capture. The majority of the color on the A. cinnamomeum comes from this iridescent sheen on its scales. I think to get the best pic you'd almost need a mostly dark tank and hella strong flashlight, plus a lot of luck to get the right angle!! The females have even less color normally! I've seen some good coloration during spawning activities though.

Females:




The A. australe Cap Estérias BSWG 97/24 are far easier as much of their color is already there. The females are a bit more difficult, but as they get older they continue to get way more orange. The females do have some iridescent blue spots but neither the males or females compare to the cinnamomeum.









As far as this tank's current layout, I set up a bit of a scape and then have just been piling everything in on top of it. The plants in this tank will eventually be split into two tanks, another 10gallon tank. Along with some plants that I've thrown into my 55 to kinda kickstart/speed up their growth, plus a couple softball size clumps of Peacock moss that I also threw into the 55. Especially with the moss, I'm just trying to get the most growth out of those plants as possible before they're transferred to the low tech systems. Honestly, I'd like the two 10g tanks to eventually end up this packed with growth as it will make the group of fish work better.

I still need to make some breeding mops, both for top and bottom spawning. I've ready several different how-to guides, it seems pretty simple. You basically just wrap a synthetic yarn around an object(book, movie, piece of cardboard, etc.) tie one end & then connect to a floating cork(for top mop,) or leave as is/or weight yarn(for bottom mop.)


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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I did a water test this evening, the first one since I started up the 10. Not really what I was hoping for...

Killi tank 1
pH 7.4ish
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5.0ppm
GH >20
KH 4
Phosphate 0.5
TDS 615

I don't have a chance to do a WC tonight but I'll do one tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully the wood is waterlogged & I can take the stone out. That should help drop the TDS and GH. I've been thinking about picking up some peat & aging my RO in it for a week before WCs to try and drop the pH some-this might help my 20L too. I'll add a couple IALs tomorrow after the WC. I'd like this tank to have a lower pH and fairly soft water. I could always mix in some Aquasoil Amazonia but I'd really prefer not to.


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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
The 10 was fully cycled(a couple weeks ago) I finally put some fish in it today, but not the ones I was planning on!! At the Desert Aquarist Society meeting today I picked up a trio(m/f/f) of Aphyosemion sp. "COFE 2010-23" which a gorgeous little non-annual Killifish. The male is already showing some amazing colors! I haven't yet taken any pictures of them but here is a good representation of what a breeding male looks like.



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I once was going to breed Aphyosemion australe. Breeder told me that the fry will starve in a tank, for they can't get to the top. He puts cotton mops in the tank and then puts the mops in a food container with moss. Perhaps since you have plants at the top the fry will live in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I once was going to breed Aphyosemion australe. Breeder told me that the fry will starve in a tank, for they can't get to the top. He puts cotton mops in the tank and then puts the mops in a food container with moss. Perhaps since you have plants at the top the fry will live in there.


I've talked to a few long time killifish people and done a lot of reading only on the AKA website and pages linked from their site.

Some people say a heavily plant tank will be ok but they encourage feeding a variety of live food & keeping it a species tank. Many with planted tanks suggest that the build up on detritus and such on the bottom of the tank will help promote some smaller live foods within the tank such as infusoria that fry will be able to feed on. This is the preferred method in Europe. It seems that in the US this is a little practiced method.

Here it is common practice is to put the adult pair together in a breeding specific tank with spawning mops for a short period of time, like a week or so & then separate the sexes. The eggs should be collected and stored in the preferred method(water or peat incubation storage) and period of time based on particular species. After the correct amount of time has passed the eggs are then submersed in a hatching container, often a plastic shoe box. At this point you either offer them appropriately sized live food immediately, or move them to a larger fry rearing tank with the same water & then feed them.

Either way the fry end up in their own grow out tank, often a 20g which is way larger than the adults will ever see. Moving the fry into their own tank allows you to offer them specific food directly without worrying about the adults or the fry not finding their own food. The fry can then grow in this same tank, depending on species as some as are more than eager to eat there siblings from a young age. Separate hatchings are not to be mixed in even if they're just a few weeks apart.

Obviously, both methods have there pros and cons. The heavily planted tank method used in Europe produces far fewer offspring, but those it does produce are often far healthier and robust. The method used in the US produces much higher numbers of offspring, but they are often much weaker fish. Either way the fish should be culled to keep a high quality line of fish.


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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Great find! I have a pair of Aphyosemion sp. "COFE 2010-22", which are a pretty hard to find. They're super shy right now, but they're starting to color up. Keep the updates coming!


That's awesome! I was just looking at all of the different fish collected on that trip! I'd love to see your fish & hear more about your set up, especially if you're actively breeding them!


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Some people say a heavily plant tank will be ok but they encourage feeding a variety of live food & keeping it a species tank. Many with planted tanks suggest that the build up on detritus and such on the bottom of the tank will help promote some smaller live foods within the tank such as infusoria that fry will be able to feed on. This is the preferred method in Europe..
Interesting read. I like this method best. This is what I have noticed my swordtail fry are eating on. To insure the smallest of fry get food I have been putting bits of the pyramid feeding blocks in moss in the tank.

So first you are going to wait till tank is full of plants?
 

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I don't feel right about culling fish. For the bible says we are to take care of the animals. Thus I have 3 sets of approx 10 fry of swordtails in a 20g high tank. The male is now in his own tank.
They don't have to be killed, just separated from the breeding line. Most people feed their culls to bigger fish or turtles because they don't want to spend time caring for these fish, but you don't have to. If you don't cull, you can end up with a lot of genetic issues (aka unhealthy fish).
 

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They don't have to be killed, just separated from the breeding line. Most people feed their culls to bigger fish or turtles because they don't want to spend time caring for these fish, but you don't have to. If you don't cull, you can end up with a lot of genetic issues (aka unhealthy fish).
Now I understand. It may seem illogical that killing them disturbs me but feeding them to other animals doesn't bother me. For it is what happens in nature. Perhaps I will get a turtle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Agreed, you don't have to kill something just because you are culling from your breeding group. You often see groups of males for sale, they'd go great in a community tank. While I don't plan on doing so, I've got not issues with euthanizing culls. Some folks don't have the resources to keep them or anyone to give them to who won't decide they should go back into a breeding group. It's one thing to sell shrimp culls for a man made(artificial selection) cherry shrimp, but most killis are variants that are only found in one specific location. Many are no longer found in the wild due to development in the area they come from. So it becomes a matter of keeping the strain healthy and looking like the original fish. It's often not about selection to coolest looking fish, or the fish that has a neat pattern that differs from the original, the goal is to breed the fish that are the best representation of the fish originally collected from that specific location.


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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Interesting read. I like this method best.



So first you are going to wait till tank is full of plants?

Thanks! I will be doing a bit of both methods. Since I am new to the killifish hobby I'm just trying to learn all I can and gain as much experience as I can!

Um, this 10 gallon tank is seriously packed full of plants! There are areas that no light reaches the bottom of the tank while directly under the 18" BML that is sitting on the glass lid! I actually plan on splitting the current plant mass into another 10 and some of a 5!

These were exactly one month ago. Everything has been growing great & I've added quite a few more plants to it! Probably at least a dozen more Java ferns-mostly needle leaf, trident & windlov. Several Crypts, some random stems that needed a home, a bunch of different floaters, more dwarf sag & another huge bunch of Hydrocotyle sp. 'Japan'....





In my 55 I've got two softball & one tennis ball size clumps of Peacock Moss I plan to put in one of my of the upcoming killifish tanks. I've been hoarding and growing it out for at least a month now for the larger clumps and probably almost 6mo on the other.

The moss collection is visible in this pic, there's a bunch of A. barteri var. coffeefolia somewhere under there!



I've been stashing all the plants I can over the last month & a half! Not to mention the sponge filters, air splitter valves & tanks. I fully plan on having some quality tanks for this breeding project.


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Agreed, you don't have to kill something just because you are culling from your breeding group. You often see groups of males for sale, they'd go great in a community tank.
Well fortunately I only have 2 fertile male swordtails. The other males Gonopodium's are not functional for they are long and crooked. I can't put them in my planted tank for they eat my plants so they are in a 10g tank with plastic grass. Thus have 3 tanks. I don't like to have more than 2 tank so I will probably sell the fertile males.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Thus have 3 tanks. I don't like to have more than 2 tank .

Wow. I wish I could maintain that! I've currently got a set of 55, 20L and 10 planted and running full of water, along with the same three sizes running as emersed tanks! I'm about to set up a few more tanks for killis breeding, a 40breeder blackwater and hopefully my new Mr. Aqua 60p that's been sitting around for like 6 months. I'm also planning to swap out the emersed 55 and 10 for a 40b and maybe another 20L. Besides the 6 tanks currently in use I think I've got I 25 tanks not in use at the moment. Hahaha. The number in use at any one time seems to wax and wane, as I get busy with other things or relocate to a different house, and such.



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Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
Well, alright, soooo much has changed since my last post!! My racks are built & currently have five tanks set up on them!

A couple of the tanks are my old emersed 20L & 55g, these two will be broken down & the plants restarted into one tank. I still haven't decided what size tank I want to use for this, although the odds are good it'll be the 20 long. My main issue with the 20L is my lighting options. I've got a T5HO that is the correct size but the bulb choices for 30" lamps totally suck!

The third tank on my racks is my 40 breeder emersed Cryptocoryne tank. This tank has it's own journal here.

The next tank is a 5.5g tank with a small group of Gertrude's Spotted Blue Eye Rainbowfish, Pseudomugil gertrudae. I believe there are 8 of them in total, 3 males & 5 females. In order to get the water to the correct parameters, the bare bottom tank has been slowly filled with IAL leaf litter which has basically turned it into a bit of a blackwater tank. There are a couple decent size Anubias, a large bunch of Hygro difformis & a couple inches worth of Salvinia minima, duckweed & another random floater on the surface. The tank is lit by an 18" BuildMyLED Dutch lamp. I've also got a few stems of Plectranthus verticillatus (Swedish Ivy/ Swedish Begonia), as well as Philodendron cordatum. The rainbows breed on a daily basis, while I haven't seen any juvenile fish, it's most certainly just a matter of time. There are definitely enough plants and leaves for any young to hide in. I don't expect offspring to show up in large numbers but I don't see why they won't grow over time.

















The last tank on my rack is the 10 gallon tank that the majority of this thread has covered. Although there have been a few changes to the stocking of this tank since my last post.

Left side


Front


Left side


Right side


The original trio of Aphyosemion sp. 'cofe 2010-23' killifish have done well. There are at least two juveniles that are pushing 0.75". One is most definitely a male, the other looks to be a female. I don't spend a ton of time staring at the tank so it is highly likely there are more juveniles I have yet to find.

The females




Male






Juvenile








Over the last three or so months I have added close to 50 red cherry shrimp to the tank. The majority of which have been Sakura grade, though some are most definitely not. The first batch of shrimp had 3 or 4 nice looking females who quickly became berried. At this point they have given birth & many of the newer females are now berried. I've been pleased to see that none of the fish have shown any interest in the shrimp, even the baby shrimp! I'm sure it is possible that some of the newborn shrimp become snacks. The RCS colony is quickly becoming established which is exactly what I have been hoping for!















The most exciting change to this 10g is the recent addition of a pair of young Apistogramma urteagai! I purchased these at the auction at our local club meeting, the Desert Aquarist Society. These Apistos may not stay in this tank in the long term but I figured it was a good place for these little fish to start. At the time of purchase, they were less than 0.75" but greater than 0.5" in length! They're an absolutely beautiful little Apistogramma species! Nothing like many of the line bred species such as the double & triple reds/oranges but I find many of the wild type species stunning! These fish might end up in the upcoming 40 gallon black water, although if that's the case I will probably see if I can acquire at least one more pair.

Google image


In the bag






Pair in the gap just right of the sponge









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