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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, The overwhelming majority of advice has been that large frequent water changes can prove detrimental (molting issues, mystery deaths, etc) to high end shrimp such as CRS.

But Japanese style planted tanks, and the dosing (E.I methods, etc) these high light/ cO2 injected tanks demand, means large amounts of micro and macro nutrients build up in the water column. This apparently means large frequent water changes are a must.

So, can a colony of CRS and a densely planted tank of demanding plants co-exists?


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Short answer, yes. It is a pain in the butt though. You're better off with a tank for plants and another tank just for crs. Everything that high demand plants like, crs hate.
 

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In general, no.

If you go for a slower growing, bit less depending plants and cut down the EI dosing amounts, so thus, less water changes and get the CO2 and light in balance with the ferts dosing, it can be done. They won't be thriving, but the less water changes and CO2, obviously keeping surface agitation up to keep O2 levels high as well can also increase their chances of being happy.

Lots of people adjust EI to suit their plants, CO2, light, water change schedule and amount, etc. It's not a full hard in set rule. People can grow full carpets with root tabs and no CO2 and the proper lights, so you don't have to go full high tech and still have a nice tank.

If you do want to go full out though, and go for super fast, lush growth, then I'd stay away from adding CRS. If you want to wait longer, some people have made mid tech planted tanks and CRS work.

Also helps to be good at breeding CRS though in the first place and know how to breed them and keep them to try this in the first place.
 

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The japanese style actually isn't EI...it's a low water nutrient, medium light, high co2 technique they use. The ADA regimine actually uses very little liquid ferts...the CO2 part will get in the way of what you're trying to do though.
 

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The japanese style actually isn't EI...it's a low water nutrient, medium light, high co2 technique they use. The ADA regimine actually uses very little liquid ferts...the CO2 part will get in the way of what you're trying to do though.
If you balance the CO2 with O2 right it won't be so bad. Lots of breeders use CO2 in their tanks for the pH lowering ability but keep very high O2 to keep the CO2 gassing of the shrimp down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Okay... Mostly on the "no" side then.. Which is disappointing. But it doesn't seem all that bad for me because I don't really use e.i and I use liquid ferts mostly. Which means I'm always chasing algae, but that's another story.

So the next question then is, with the conditions I have (pH lowering substrate, two 18w T5HO, high tech co2, liquid ferts, 2213 canister with 2L prefilter, etc), can I keep other shrimp? Tigers? Blue bolts? Yellow? Etc....

Thanks for e replies BTW...


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skip crs keeping in that tank for now and grow the iwagumi immersed, then you can add whatever shrimp you want to the tank minus all the concerns with algae, plants being upgrooted and all those initial plans that are destined to fail. when you see crs in an iwagumi, they were not all not in the tank from the getgo. If you never started a iwagumi styled tank, then keeping shrimps should not be a priority. you'll have a ton of other things to be concerned with... just saying...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
skip crs keeping in that tank for now and grow the iwagumi immersed, then you can add whatever shrimp you want to the tank minus all the concerns with algae, plants being upgrooted and all those initial plans that are destined to fail. when you see crs in an iwagumi, they were not all not in the tank from the getgo. If you never started a iwagumi styled tank, then keeping shrimps should not be a priority. you'll have a ton of other things to be concerned with... just saying...
Oh ye of little faith... ;)

I've had a planted tanks before, so that's not too much of a concern for me. And I've kept shrimp before, just nothing beyond fire reds and Yamato shrimp...

My concern is will the mid/high-tech planted tank regimen clash with high-end shrimp care regimen?..




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This is basically what I am doing right now! I dsm'd my tank first, I let the hc fully grow in for 2 months, then spent the last 2 months trying to get my light, co2 and ferts down. I have been slowly lowering them and watching the tonina for any signs of it not being happy.


That is a full carpet if hc with about 25 tonina lotus blossoms and a Erios Japan flowering at the moment. I am down to 20% on my light and all seem to be growing still. Growth has slowed way down for sure now but I am ok with it since I grew it all in before hand.

I just got oebt for it yesterday. Time will tell if I succeed or fail, will most likely fail, but I got them for cheap, and I'm just trying it out.

Sorry for the crummy pic but the macro lens won't be here till the end of the month.

I can nor cannot say wether it is doable but I am willing to try I think you will have a much better chance of success if things are grown in first and then adjust your parameters to the shrimp. Only time will tell I guess hahaha, wish me luck! . As you can see the tonina is still looking good. There is bare substrate there as somehow riccia end up there in dsm and I just finally decided to get rid of it.
 

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Oh ye of little faith... ;)

I've had a planted tanks before, so that's not too much of a concern for me. And I've kept shrimp before, just nothing beyond fire reds and Yamato shrimp...

My concern is will the mid/high-tech planted tank regimen clash with high-end shrimp care regimen?..

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its not so much a matter of faith than experience. to answer your first question, co-existence is 'yes'. however by posing the question, it likely wont be an easy task for you as its a challenge for most of us today.

If you havent grown a carpet, kept a pressurized co2 high tech setup nor kept crystal shrimp, these are all advanced projects to take on. Simply keeping a planted tank and neocaridinas doesnt necessarily qualify one for all related types of projects while disregarding how successful each venture has been.

If your prerogative to do all at once, more power to ya. The advice is to tackle each separately. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So, I guess I didn't clearly state it, but setup is 4 months old, completely grown in, and doing well. Also, I've done high-tech before (2 years worth), minus the enriched substrate.

I've just recently added the CRS, and if CRS aren't doable, it's not the end of the world for me; I'll try another species of shrimp. It's just that now I have the pH lower substrate Netlea Lambo, and I know i would not be able to do higher pH shrimp, but would like to know what's suitable.


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Well if it is already grown in why not just lower the light co2 and ferts to a shrimp safe level? Does not seem to be advised to do them both but if you already have the crs why not give it a try?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This link might be of interest to you. You might have to join scape to see it.

http://scapeclub.org/forum/showthread.php?17997-Phan10ms-20-gallon-natural-tank

He's using aquasoil, no co2 and no ferts. 50% wc each week.
I just took a look...l love that setup! (P.S - he said 50% wc every OTHER week) :)

So this setup really goes back to the core concern of my question - are frequent large water changes REALLY that detrimental to CRS?

I understand in my case, it would mean more drastic fluctuations (tap of 7.2 pH, substrate and co2 lowers it to 6.3), but this means it IS possible, no?

I guess as Forumsnow stated, it's just a matter of trying it out now.

But I'm glad I asked, because xmas_one, that link reassured me.... :)


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So this setup really goes back to the core concern of my question - are frequent large water changes REALLY that detrimental to CRS?

I understand in my case, it would mean more drastic fluctuations (tap of 7.2 pH, substrate and co2 lowers it to 6.3), but this means it IS possible, no?



Crystal shrimp do not thrive when the water parameters fluctuate. One very tedious method of dealing with this is to basically do a drip acclimation with every water change (set up your bucket of new water and drip it in slowly all day while you’re at work or overnight). You can also deal with the pH upfront by dripping the new water through a DIY peat filter.
 

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So this setup really goes back to the core concern of my question - are frequent large water changes REALLY that detrimental to CRS?

I understand in my case, it would mean more drastic fluctuations (tap of 7.2 pH, substrate and co2 lowers it to 6.3), but this means it IS possible, no?
If you are doing large frequent wc on a tank with minimal bioload (shrimps are not that dirty) the change in water chemistry is going to be minimal. I believe the tap water where this tank is runs on the order of a TDS of 40. The main thing "changing" the water would be the acids in the aquasoil. So you might see a pH shift from 6.6 to maybe 6.8 at the water change, big whoop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You do not need to do that many or large water changes. From the creator of ei http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...I-can-get-you-there-with-a-small-modification

That is what I am doing with my tank
Yes. That is a VERY interesting discussion... Mind you, they don't really mention shrimp names, just generalize with shrimp. But I too keep lower temps in my tank (no heater) so its very interesting to hear...

Well, I'm going to continue with my setup with a few tweaks (shorter light periods, dosing when visibly necessary, less water changes, etc), and report findings in the coming months...


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