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Is this going to be an issue?

3932 Views 64 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  mcaquatic
Since I have switched to the inline atomic I need to run my Co2 at a higher pressure. So now when the solenoid turns off the needle falls down to the high and of the gauge instead of zero. So when the Co2 turns back on for about the first 5 to 10 second a lot of co2 rushes out before the gauge corrects itself. The tank is a 90g. I feel like this probably really isn't all that much Co2 in the scheme of things, but wanted to get some advice. Thanks
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Sounds to me like your regulator is leaking by, and building up pressure in between your regulator and your solenoid.
Never had a pressurized co2 system for plants, but at work.. the first few draws of the soda tap are always thick and bubbly... Kinda wrong tasting.. but maybe similar to your situation. Is the water pump putting back pressure on your CO2 system?
First thing would be is what regulator are you running? Dual or single stage?
Sounds to me like your regulator is leaking by, and building up pressure in between your regulator and your solenoid.

Actually no. Remember the solenoid is what shuts off or turns on the gas flow. So the gas flow when stopped/off will always be right at the solenoid. Pressure can only be what the output pressure is showing on the working pressure. Because of the higher amount of back pressure that most the atmoizers use it does change things.
Since I have switched to the inline atomic I need to run my Co2 at a higher pressure. So now when the solenoid turns off the needle falls down to the high and of the gauge instead of zero. So when the Co2 turns back on for about the first 5 to 10 second a lot of co2 rushes out before the gauge corrects itself. The tank is a 90g. I feel like this probably really isn't all that much Co2 in the scheme of things, but wanted to get some advice. Thanks
after re-reading what your saying.. im just trying to clarify..

So you recently switched from something else.. to a Atomizer. Now Most all atomizers need at least 30PSI. You shouldnt ever really adjust your system on the working pressure higher then 40 as the ratings for solenoids and such. It will be normal for when your solenoid shuts off to have your working pressure rise. Why? You have stopped the flow of gas to the atomizer. Basically a controlled leak. When the Atomizer or any other use be it a ceramic diffuser or reactor... is running and the solenoid is open it will cause working pressure to drop some. Again thats normal. Certain things such as an atomizer will make a bigger difference due to the higher back pressure they have. Once the flow starts or stops you should notice a change. Nothing to worry about. Again its normal. The reason it takes a few seconds after turning on to get back to "normal" is the Co2 must fight the backpressure of the Atomizer to start working. This delay in time is what it takes. Once the backpressure is overcome and working it changes pressure.
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thanks for the inputs. Def no leaks at this time.
It is a dual stage. Original this tank and reg was on my 46g with a diy powerhead run diffusor. Now its on my 90g. For the fist 8 hrs I had it running on a mix max until i noticed it was leaking then switched to the inline atomizer. I do plan on getting the mix max back in. It is a dual stage reg.

Thanks aquaticfan. I assumed it was normal - just wanted to make sure.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you. What I understand you to be saying, is that when your regulator solenoid shuts off, your regulated pressure gauge rises all the way to the top. If that is the case, your regulator is letting gas leak by, and you are having a pressure build up between the regulator and the solenoid. What exactly does the regulated pressure gauge read when the solenoid is open, and when it is closed.
To clarify : is it your low side pressure gauge rising or the high side?

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I'm going to bump this up one more time because I am a bit concerned about it. Again, If I understand you right, and your low pressure gauge is rising all the way to the highest pressure reading when you shut off your solenoid, then your regulator is leaking. You don't know how much it is leaking because your gauge is pegged out as high as it will go. You could have tank pressure hitting the needle valve when your solenoid turns back on, and thus high pressure in your line, if only for a few moments.
I'm going to bump this up one more time because I am a bit concerned about it. Again, If I understand you right, and your low pressure gauge is rising all the way to the highest pressure reading when you shut off your solenoid, then your regulator is leaking. You don't know how much it is leaking because your gauge is pegged out as high as it will go. You could have tank pressure hitting the needle valve when your solenoid turns back on, and thus high pressure in your line, if only for a few moments.
The only issue with thatis he would have other things going on. But beings that its a dual stage It's really easy to check if the first stage is leaking into the 2nd.

Turn off the bottle valve. Have your solenoid on and bleed off all pressure on both gauges till they read zero. Now. Turn off the solenoid turn off the low side completely. Then turn the bottle valve back on. Let the pressure max out and then turn the bottle valve back off. If there is an internal leak between the two. The high side will go down in pressure while the low side goes up. Leave this arrow this way for a day. Check it see if high side still shows close or exactly same pressure. See if low side still at zero. If so then you have no leak. If there is changes then you do have a leak.


But... The issue he is seeing.us fairly normal for his set up. I honestly don't think he has a leak. First issue would be he would have issues adjusting. His co2 use would be higher.

Try the leak check above and verify though no leaks.
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This just does not sound right to me. Solenoid on or off, my working pressure does not perceptibly change on 6 of my regulators connected to diffusers, atomizers and a reactor. Isn't what a regulator partially does? Keeps the working pressure constant by adjusting the amount of the gas from 1st to 2nd chamber?

Do check your regulator. Maybe takes 30 mins, but better safe then sorry.
This just does not sound right to me. Solenoid on or off, my working pressure does not perceptibly change on 6 of my regulators connected to diffusers, atomizers and a reactor. Isn't what a regulator partially does?
Exactly. Thats why I have kept asking for clarification. If the low pressure gauge rises when the solenoid is shut off, gas is leaking by. Thinking that is normal could be dangerous.
so it is 11:30 am my time and my low pressure reads 45 and my high 500 (the co2 tank is running out now). Will post back when the low guage changes

if it is just an internal leak in the regulator does it really matter?
I set my BPS by opening the needle valve fully, then slowly inching the regulator knob up until I get to slightly above my desired flow rate. Then i'll crank the needle valve down until I get the exactly flow I want. When the solenoid is closed, the low side gauge reads about 10 psi. When it opens, it slowly drops to almost 0 and there is an initial rush of bubbles as it works to re-pressurize the hose to a point where it can overcome the resistance of the diffuser. All that being said, mcaquatic, what does your low side gauge max out at, what psi did you set it to run at during the day, and what method did you use to adjust the flow rate of the gas?
But... The issue he is seeing.us fairly normal for his set up. I honestly don't think he has a leak. First issue would be he would have issues adjusting. His co2 use would be higher.
So, you are saying that, on a dual stage regulator, it is normal for the low side guage, to rise all the way to the high end peg, when the solinoid is shut off?

Second question. If the regulator is leaking past, and co2 is building up between the regulator and the solinoid, why would this cause higher co2 use? No co2 is leaking out of the system.
i set my pressures and bps etc by the method in the sticky.
my low side reads up to 60 psi.
the pressure is not at 52 it is 1 pm and and the solenoid has been off since 11:30

oh and I set it for 45 psi for me diffusor. I want to try to switch to my mix max but want to resolve this issues first.
i set my pressures and bps etc by the method in the sticky.
my low side reads up to 60 psi.
the pressure is not at 52 it is 1 pm and and the solenoid has been off since 11:30

oh and I set it for 45 psi for me diffusor. I want to try to switch to my mix max but want to resolve this issues first.
I assume you meant that the pressure is NOW at 52. The really doesn't mean anything because you have never said what the pressure was in the first place, and we don't know what your high pressure is reading. It is normal for the pressure to rise a bit on the low side, when you are running out of co2. The only thing I want to know is still, when your co2 system is running normally, what is the pressure set at. Then when your solenoid is shut off, does the low pressure guage rise all the way to the highest reading?

Aquatic fan is trying to get you to do a different test, which you are only 1/2 the way through. ( and I think is irrelevant)
livingword 26 i did answer those questions in an earlier post from today
I set my pressure to 45. My pressure is still at 500 as mentioned earlier.

so my my pressure is set to 45 and yes when it is off by the next morning it is past the 60 psi mark.

If I do have an internal leak does it really matter? Since I am not loosing Co2 to outside of the tank will I run out any faster? Will the life of the regulator be shortened?
This regulator has been a head ache since I got it.
Ok. There are a couple of issues here. Here is a diagram of a 2 stage regulator.



First, I am going to assume that your low side gauge goes up to the highest reading when your solenoid shuts the flow off. To me there is no argument that that means your second stage is leaking by. Now, if your first stage is not leaking, then the only thing that is leaking through, is the co2 stored in between the 1st and 2nd stages. I don't know how much that is. Personally I think it would be odd to have both stages leaking at the same time, however, if this is the same regulator that you had to take apart, and there is debri, (teflon tape, metal shavings ect.) in the unit, then theoretically both of them could be leaking by.
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