Is this advanced HITH or something else?

1954 Views 22 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Anorea, Apr 12, 2017

dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2017

This GBR started with a strange white spot on his side above his full plate about two weeks ago. Since then, I've seen a rapid decline in his overall health and appetite. The spots have completely covered one side of his head, the other side seems less affected.

I am considering euthanasia as he has had two medicated baths in paraguard with no improvement. Water quality is almost perfect, with the worst param being a spike to 40ppm nitrate last Friday.

Rest of the tank is vibrant, active and healthy. Needless to say I am devastated as this was the best looking Ram I've ever seen., and he has a great personality.

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longgonedaddy

· #2 · Apr 3, 2017

Tough to tell from the pic, arevthey spots or actual pits in the skin?

Anorea

· #3 · Apr 3, 2017

It does look like hith to me. Since you like him so much, why don't you quarantine and give another try with treatment? He's gorgeous.

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dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #4 · Apr 3, 2017

Anorea said:
It does look like hith to me. Since you like him so much, why don't you quarantine and give another try with treatment? He's gorgeous.

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Any thoughts on meds? I thought it was untreatable but I've heard some people say General Cure by API is effective.

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Anorea

· #5 · Apr 3, 2017

dbl_dbl17 said:
Any thoughts on meds? I thought it was untreatable but I've heard some people say General Cure by API is effective.

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I've never personally encountered hith.
API General Cure has always worked for me for other things, pretty reliably, though. I do believe hith is contagious though, isn't it? So I think you should get your QT ready for him anyhow. I say I'd rather try treatment and be able to feel "I tried my best to save him" than not, but everyone is different. I'd give general cure a try, at the very least. BTW depending on where you live, there are such things as aquatic vets, if you would find that helpful.

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KayakJimW

· #6 · Apr 3, 2017

looks like HITH to me. FWIW, I've used Metronidazole on larger cichlids with HITH/ HLLE with good results. The holes won't fill in, but it will stop spreading

https://www.amazon.com/SEACHEM-LABORATORIES-INC-METROPLEX-GRAM/dp/B007R5M89C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491239878&sr=8-1&keywords=metronidazole+fish

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dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 3, 2017

KayakJimW said:
looks like HITH to me. FWIW, I've used Metronidazole on larger cichlids with HITH/ HLLE with good results. The holes won't fill in, but it will stop spreading

https://www.amazon.com/SEACHEM-LABO...1491239878&sr=8-1&keywords=metronidazole+fish

Did you treat the tank, the food or use a bath?

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KayakJimW

· #8 · Apr 3, 2017 (Edited)

dbl_dbl17 said:
Did you treat the tank, the food or use a bath?

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I treated the tank, which was way too expensive (180 gallons) but I worked at a store at the time and it was "store use" meds. Tried food first, but the affected fish didn't have much appetite. If I had it to do over again, I would move him to a hospital tank and dose that. I haven't had much luck with baths with other meds. Never tried one with metronidazole

dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 5, 2017

Last night I treated the whole tank with General Cure. Will report back once the treatment cycle is complete. Thanks everyone!

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bigbadjon

· #10 · Apr 5, 2017

KayakJimW said:
looks like HITH to me. FWIW, I've used Metronidazole on larger cichlids with HITH/ HLLE with good results. The holes won't fill in, but it will stop spreading

https://www.amazon.com/SEACHEM-LABORATORIES-INC-METROPLEX-GRAM/dp/B007R5M89C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491239878&sr=8-1&keywords=metronidazole+fish

I agree with this. Anecdotal evidence in the hobby suggests hith is caused by parasites and metronidazole is the cure. Feeding high quality food with frequent water changes will usually reverse the damage.

Coralbandit

· #11 · Apr 7, 2017

Cause and Treatment for HITH/HLLE - Hole in the Head - Head and Lateral Line Erosion - Fish Disease
Most cases of HITH that I have seen 'cured' involved vitamins or an improved diet and possibly meds as listed in this article..
Do you use carbon in your filter???
Many believe carbon fines [ dust] are a cause although it is not proven .

bigbadjon

· #12 · Apr 7, 2017

Hole in the Head (HITH) and Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) in Aquarium Fish | Advanced Aquarium Concepts

Here's an article written from an opposing view from the one coralbandit posted.

dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 8, 2017

6

Well, things have gone downhill. I came home today and found him after 3 days of him hiding. His pits now had fungus growing on them. I went to my LFS and picked up methalyne blue which used to work well in my previous tanks for egg funguses and what not. Gave him a 10 second 50 ppm dip.

I think he's on his last legs. I feel like I let him down. The store tested my water as well.. 0-0-20ppm. I did remember a guppy died about a month ago and it took me a week to find its body. Maybe that caused this.

I think he's on his last legs. Nicest fish I've ever owned.

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dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 8, 2017

I've moved this guy to a 7.5g guppy fry tank. He wasn't eating, and it's much easier for me to catch him and keep up with massive water changes while I am treating him. I see him buzzing around for the first time in over a week, searching for fry.

My girlfriend is going to be furious. God speed papa Ram.

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KayakJimW

· #15 · Apr 8, 2017

dbl_dbl17 said:
I've moved this guy to a 7.5g guppy fry tank. He wasn't eating, and it's much easier for me to catch him and keep up with massive water changes while I am treating him. I see him buzzing around for the first time in over a week, searching for fry.

My girlfriend is going to be furious. God speed papa Ram.

That's a good sign.

dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 8, 2017

Much more active today. A poster on fish lore suggested a 30 mins bath of methaleyne blue. 1/2 tsp per 2.5gallon.

dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 8, 2017

4

I'm trying to take as many pics as I can to document it. I am feeling pretty ashamed that I let this happen to him. My girlfriend thinks I should euthanize him but I am going to give him a week of treatment. He's definitely showing signs of improvement today.

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KayakJimW

· #18 · Apr 8, 2017

Nice. Showing signs of improvement means keep doing what you're doing! Come on Ram, we're rootin' for ya buddy

and please don't feel too ashamed or beat yourself up, you didn't set out to do harm. It's a learning experience. Feel good you are doing all you can to help him out

dbl_dbl17

Discussion Starter · #19 · Apr 8, 2017

2

Fungus turned blue after today's 30 minute bath. I'm hoping this is the staining of the fungus cells which stops their metabolism as per some research.

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JJBTEXAS

· #20 · Apr 8, 2017

that's exactly what the staining is. seems like good news to me

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