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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Depends on the species of fish.
Small, schooling fish (most of the list in your signature) can be stocked at a pretty high rate, in a well cycled planted tank.

I would be concerned that the Pearl Gourami might get out-competed for food among all those faster swimmers.

If you can keep the NO3 under control with whatever water change schedule works for you, then the tank is not overstocked.
If the fish are getting along, not showing stress from social issues, then the tank is not overstocked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Depends on the species of fish.
Small, schooling fish (most of the list in your signature) can be stocked at a pretty high rate, in a well cycled planted tank.

I would be concerned that the Pearl Gourami might get out-competed for food among all those faster swimmers.

If you can keep the NO3 under control with whatever water change schedule works for you, then the tank is not overstocked.
If the fish are getting along, not showing stress from social issues, then the tank is not overstocked.
I have had a 2 hatchet fish jump out of the aquarium but that is their thing. No one is getting attacked or harassed anymore.

I have had to return a lot of bully fish to the store in order to achieve this synergy of small fish.

Many of the fish are small schooling fish.
Neon, Glow-light, blood fin, black, Pristella Tetra as well as Rasboras, etc..

The only somewhat big fish are the 3 Denson barbs(currently small) and the 2 Pear Gourami.

The time lapse make it look like there are more fish activity then there really is.

here is a picture of the tank without the crazy time lapse.

https://goo.gl/photos/XTxmX7cnmhGiu5Rr9

Ok, I think this may be the complete list:

Glow-light Tetra
Neon Tetra
Black Neon Tetra
Black molly
Denson Barb
Silver Hachet Fish
Blood Fin Tetra
Pristella Tetra
Golden Wonder Killifish
Pearl Danio
Lyretail Molly Poecilia velifera
Long Fin tetra minor
Bristle Nose Pleco
Rosy Tetra
Sword tail
Platy Orange
Platy Red
Scissortail rasboras
harlequin rasboras
red wag swordtails
Pearl Gourami
Amno Shrimp
Siamese algae eater
Orange Von Rio AKA ( Flame Tetra Red tetra Fire tetra)
Black Ruby barb
Penguin Tetra
Cherry Barbs
Cobra Guppy
Fancy tail guppy
Long Fin zebra fish
Zebra fish
 

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Wow I really like that tank.

How long have you had it stock at that level?
Do you test for nitrates? That will be your best way to see if your over stocked or if your bio load is up for that load.

I to had problems with hatch fish also watch out for the golden wonders they like to jump to. Your list is a good list for people to see what fish work together.
 

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I would not recommend a list like that.
Obviously, it is working in this example, but I see a couple of reasons not to do this.

Fewer species, more individuals of the species you want, to make better sized schools. In a large tank you could get for example, 20 fish from each of 3 species. That way you can see the schooling behavior. With just a few fish of each species you miss that part of their behavior, and the fish are missing some of their social needs.

Also, the fish have different needs for water hardness and temperature. Their needs overlap enough to keep them together, but these parameters might be at the extreme end of OK for some species. If something happens (the water warms up a bit or cools off a bit, or something else changes just a little) then the conditions could easily become too extreme for some fish.
In particular, I would not mix live bearers (Platy, Sword, Molly, Guppy) with soft water fish, and be cautious about mixing live bearers with each other, they can cross breed, and they have different personalities and prefer different temperatures.

A good place to look up the requirements is
Seriously Fish ? Feeling fishy?
 

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I would not recommend a list like that.
Obviously, it is working in this example, but I see a couple of reasons not to do this.

Fewer species, more individuals of the species you want, to make better sized schools. In a large tank you could get for example, 20 fish from each of 3 species. That way you can see the schooling behavior. With just a few fish of each species you miss that part of their behavior, and the fish are missing some of their social needs.

Also, the fish have different needs for water hardness and temperature. Their needs overlap enough to keep them together, but these parameters might be at the extreme end of OK for some species. If something happens (the water warms up a bit or cools off a bit, or something else changes just a little) then the conditions could easily become too extreme for some fish.
In particular, I would not mix live bearers (Platy, Sword, Molly, Guppy) with soft water fish, and be cautious about mixing live bearers with each other, they can cross breed, and they have different personalities and prefer different temperatures.

A good place to look up the requirements is
Seriously Fish ? Feeling fishy?
It seems when at the LFS most of all these fish are kept in the same water very few shops have different water for different breeds of fish. Around here, there in high ph and hard water. But I do agree with you on keeping just a few breeds but this his tank and what he does, does works for him.
 

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I find overstocking is a combo of things. One is the number and size of fish but the more important is the upkeep of the tank. One can keep twice as many fish if one does three times as much work. At some point most of us do want to consider how the fish act and look rather than looking like a cattle pen.
 

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We had an old rule before people found out details of things like nitrogen cycles
and such. It's obviously not a very good one. That one inch of fish per gallon of
tank water thing. That rule suggest that it would work out to keep a 10" Oscar in a 10g tank. But back in those days...60's-70's...I had the luck of doing business at a shop
were the owner had a different rule. He said we typically have fish per gallon in
tanks but that in nature it's more like fish per million gallons.
He told me(when I asked how many can I ) that you just add a couple each week.
But turn off all current making devices after you add each new fish. Leave these off for
at least an hour after you add the fish. No filters/air bubblers/wave makers etc.
If the fish come up to the surface to breath, then you have too many so remove
a couple of them.
He said with a good filter you can have more than this. But by doing it this way
you don't have to be concerned if the electricity goes out. And it will be a lot
closer to a natural environment for the fish.
 

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The thing to remember about the 1" per gallon guide is the limitations.

~It only works for fish up to 2" long (though a 3-4" really thin fish like a Kuhlie Loach could be counted as a 2" fish)

~ It says nothing about the social and other needs of the fish.

~ It is a valid guide for these needs: Oxygen, CO2, Ammonia removal.

~ It is for a cycled tank.


Raymond S' boss's old style method works well, and is a very conservative method, but is only for oxygen needs. But testing in a tank with all equipment off would sure give you a good idea of what would happen if the power failed. It is indeed closer to the natural stocking levels in ponds and rivers.

PlantedRich makes a good point about the work level increasing faster than the stocking level! Been there, done that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wow I really like that tank.

How long have you had it stock at that level?
Do you test for nitrates? That will be your best way to see if your over stocked or if your bio load is up for that load.

I to had problems with hatch fish also watch out for the golden wonders they like to jump to. Your list is a good list for people to see what fish work together.
I have a sachem alert badge that will tell me the ammonia level 24/7 instantly. Its on the left side of the aquarium with a yellow in the middle. That is my first warning sign if something is wrong. I have been slowly adding and removing fish since December 2015 to this tank until I came up with the perfect balance of peace and tranquility while having top level of interesting fish which interact with the surroundings.

I have not tested nitrates in a while but I have that canister filter loaded up to the max with fluval biomax ceramic tubes which some guy on youtube said was the most porous biological filtration media you can get. I am even considering adding a second canister filter for improved water flow since I think my wavemaker might be dangerous to my fish.

Believe me, it was not easy to come up with that list. I had a lot of uncomfortable returns to the petstore or seriously hurt fish as result of bad selection in the past. Just buying fish labeled as "peaceful" is not good enough, you can still end up with some real massacre on your hand even by following the internet charts and petstore advice.

The only chasing I see is from the black molly once in a while but there are no fish that end up killed or injured while having a very wide range of unique looking community fish.

I would highly recommend this list for anyone looking to stock a 75 gallon planted tank.

Thank you for appreciating the list I made, feel free to use it yourself or recommend it to a friend. :smile2:
 

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Biological media in the filter does not remove NO3. These organisms create NO3.
The organisms that grow in this media oxidize ammonia, turning it into NO2, then oxidize NO2 and turn it into NO3.
While there are microorganisms that remove the NO3, they produce some toxic waste, and are generally not wanted in an aquarium.

Plants remove all 3.

Testing is the only way to know what is going on with NO3. An ammonia test works fine for ammonia, but this says nothing about the NO2 or NO3.
More bio media in the filter will not solve a rising NO3 problem.

If the NO3 tests show it is at a reasonable level, then the plants may be removing the nitrogen in the form of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, and the bacteria are turning some ammonia into nitrite then nitrate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I would not recommend a list like that.
Obviously, it is working in this example, but I see a couple of reasons not to do this.

Fewer species, more individuals of the species you want, to make better sized schools. In a large tank you could get for example, 20 fish from each of 3 species. That way you can see the schooling behavior. With just a few fish of each species you miss that part of their behavior, and the fish are missing some of their social needs.

Also, the fish have different needs for water hardness and temperature. Their needs overlap enough to keep them together, but these parameters might be at the extreme end of OK for some species. If something happens (the water warms up a bit or cools off a bit, or something else changes just a little) then the conditions could easily become too extreme for some fish.
In particular, I would not mix live bearers (Platy, Sword, Molly, Guppy) with soft water fish, and be cautious about mixing live bearers with each other, they can cross breed, and they have different personalities and prefer different temperatures.

A good place to look up the requirements is
Seriously Fish ? Feeling fishy?
This is the information I'm working with, it seem that they all can work at 75 degrees F, as far as PH, I am told that the fish will just adapt to whatever tap water PH level you have and that you end up killing them if you try to adjust the PH too much:

I have a school amount of almost each type of fish. Usually like 5 fish or more.

1 Glow-light Tetra 72-77° F
2 Neon Tetra 68-78° F
3 Black Neon Tetra 72-77° F,
4 Black molly 68-82° F
5 Denison Barb 60-77° F
6 Silver Hatchetfish 73-81° F
7 Blood Fin Tetra 72-80° F
8 Pristella Tetra [censored]64-82° F
9 Golden Wonder Killifish 72-75° F
10 Pearl Danio 64-74 F
11 Lyretail Molly 75-82° F
12 Long Fin tetra minor 72-82° F
13 BristleNose Pleco 74-79° F
14 Rosy Tetra 75.0 to 82.0° F
15 Sword tail 64-82° F
16 Platy Orange 64-77° F
17 Platy Red 64-77° F
18 Scissortail rasboras 73-77° F
19 Harlequin Rasbora 72-77° F
20 red wag swordtails 64-82° F
21 Pearl Gourami 75-86° F
22 Amno Shrimp 60-80° F
23 Siamese algae eater 75-79° F
24 Orange Von Rio Tetra 73.0 to 82.0° F
25 Black Ruby barb 72-79
26 Cherry Barbs 74-79° F
27 Cobra Guppy 64-82° F
28 Fancy tail guppy 64-82° F
29 Long Fin zebra fish 64-75° F
30 Zebra fish 64-75° F
31 Penguin Tetra 64-82° F
32 Leopard Long fin Danio 64-75° F
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It seems when at the LFS most of all these fish are kept in the same water very few shops have different water for different breeds of fish. Around here, there in high ph and hard water. But I do agree with you on keeping just a few breeds but this his tank and what he does, does works for him.
I think you are right, the petstore that sell these fish and them all in the same temperature water usually running on a shared filter. The worst thing I have found for fish is when you have a fish that is too aggressive or strong and it tears the other fish to shreds.

Here is the information I'm working with and most if it is from LiveAquaria.com. I try to keep my Aquarium at 75 degrees which seem to be a temperature in range of all the fish( Although it on the top on some fish range and the bottom of other fish range.) You need to get a high quality heater( not one of those preset ones because they are set too high at 78 degrees)

1 Glow-light Tetra 72-77° F
2 Neon Tetra 68-78° F
3 Black Neon Tetra 72-77° F,
4 Black molly 68-82° F
5 Denison Barb 60-77° F
6 Silver Hatchetfish 73-81° F
7 Blood Fin Tetra 72-80° F
8 Pristella Tetra 64-82° F
9 Golden Wonder Killifish 72-75° F
10 Pearl Danio 64-74 F
11 Lyretail Molly 75-82° F
12 Long Fin tetra minor 72-82° F
13 BristleNose Pleco 74-79° F
14 Rosy Tetra 75.0 to 82.0° F
15 Sword tail 64-82° F
16 Platy Orange 64-77° F
17 Platy Red 64-77° F
18 Scissortail rasboras 73-77° F
19 Harlequin Rasbora 72-77° F
20 red wag swordtails 64-82° F
21 Pearl Gourami 75-86° F
22 Amno Shrimp 60-80° F
23 Siamese algae eater 75-79° F
24 Orange Von Rio Tetra 73.0 to 82.0° F
25 Black Ruby barb 72-79
26 Cherry Barbs 74-79° F
27 Cobra Guppy 64-82° F
28 Fancy tail guppy 64-82° F
29 Long Fin zebra fish 64-75° F
30 Zebra fish 64-75° F
31 Penguin Tetra 64-82° F
32 Leopard Long fin Danio 64-75° F
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I find overstocking is a combo of things. One is the number and size of fish but the more important is the upkeep of the tank. One can keep twice as many fish if one does three times as much work. At some point most of us do want to consider how the fish act and look rather than looking like a cattle pen.
My canister filter is almost all biological media in it to keep ammonia and nitrites low. The plants are for the nitrates. Its rated for a 75 gallon tank. Do you think I should get a second canister filter to double the filtration?

Keep in mind that almost all my fish are tiny schooling fish not large fish. Harlequin Rasbora, guppies, neon tetra, glowlight tetra, very small fish,etc.. That probably don't even get 2-inches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Biological media in the filter does not remove NO3. These organisms create NO3.
The organisms that grow in this media oxidize ammonia, turning it into NO2, then oxidize NO2 and turn it into NO3.
While there are microorganisms that remove the NO3, they produce some toxic waste, and are generally not wanted in an aquarium.

Plants remove all 3.

Testing is the only way to know what is going on with NO3. An ammonia test works fine for ammonia, but this says nothing about the NO2 or NO3.
More bio media in the filter will not solve a rising NO3 problem.

If the NO3 tests show it is at a reasonable level, then the plants may be removing the nitrogen in the form of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, and the bacteria are turning some ammonia into nitrite then nitrate.
So do you want the plants to consume ammonia, nitrites or nitrates? Which one is better?

If you have nitrates in your tank but your plants are still not growing, what is like likely bottleneck?

C02, Potassium, Phosphate, iron or some other trace element,etc..?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
We had an old rule before people found out details of things like nitrogen cycles
and such. It's obviously not a very good one. That one inch of fish per gallon of
tank water thing. That rule suggest that it would work out to keep a 10" Oscar in a 10g tank. But back in those days...60's-70's...I had the luck of doing business at a shop
were the owner had a different rule. He said we typically have fish per gallon in
tanks but that in nature it's more like fish per million gallons.
He told me(when I asked how many can I ) that you just add a couple each week.
But turn off all current making devices after you add each new fish. Leave these off for
at least an hour after you add the fish. No filters/air bubblers/wave makers etc.
If the fish come up to the surface to breath, then you have too many so remove
a couple of them.
He said with a good filter you can have more than this. But by doing it this way
you don't have to be concerned if the electricity goes out. And it will be a lot
closer to a natural environment for the fish.
I recently connected a UPS( uninterrupted power supply) to 2 air pumps connected to this aquarium for the event of a power outage.

Maybe I should just connect 1 pump so I will last longer, I'm not sure.

Thanks for the advice.
 

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So do you want the plants to consume ammonia, nitrites or nitrates? Which one is better?

If you have nitrates in your tank but your plants are still not growing, what is like likely bottleneck?

C02, Potassium, Phosphate, iron or some other trace element,etc..?

Thanks.
Long story short - some nitrates.

Ammonia is most toxic to fish. Nitrites are less toxic than ammonia but more toxic than nitrates. When you cycle your tank, it builds up good bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrites, then another type of good bacteria begins to develop that converts nitrites into nitrates. The first two should always read 0 ppm on your test kits while nitrates for me ranges between 10 - 20 ppm.

I'm still a relative newbie to the planted tank, but from what I've read, low phosphates, iron, etc. does not so much inhibit growth as it reduces quality of growth. Deficiencies result in less than ideal (aka ugly) looking plants that will have health issues. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of that

Edit: Meant to mention that CO2 is probably your biggest bottleneck to growth. I just started DIY on a 6 gal nano to learn, and plant growth took off like crazy. I had to adjust lighting a bit as well, and then figuring out ferts has been really fun... Love the growth, but I'm in that phase where I'm not sure if adding all the extra work was really with it
 

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The only difference between overstocking a cichlid tank vs a traditional tropical community is.... the need to for cichlids.

I've kept several african cichlid tanks that were overstocked, over-filtered, and healthy--with large, frequent water changes. I think in general, everyone that commented on why you shouldn't really are absolutely correct. But in real life, the fish tell you how it's going. Are they active? Eat and breathe normally? Reproducing? Not dying (lol)? Are they not stressed? Exhibit normal behavior? If so, and the water parameters are check, it's fine (within reason, clearly 100 large fish in a 75 would just be ridiculous).

If it's not broke, don't fix it. Just my $0.02.
 
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