Iron or Manganesium Deficiency?

8889 Views 9 Replies 5 Participants Last post by ed.junior, Feb 21, 2017

SingAlongWithTsing

Discussion Starter · Feb 9, 2017 (Edited)

Ludwigia Rubin

I'm wondering what kind of deficiency i have here. The plant behind is always Rubins but as you can see it's a bit peachy / orange in color. Bottom leaves still have a bit of red. It's been in the tank for about 3 weeks now.

Parameters:
Nitrate: 40
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
PH: 8 -> 7
GH: 14
KH: 11
CO2: 30+ PPM although it takes 1 hour and 30 mins to drop 1 point,
CO2 Duration: 8hrs, 1 pm to 9 pm
Lights: 8hrs, 2pm - 10 pm
Substrate: Black Diamond Blasting Sand

Dosing:
KNO3: none, tap water contains 35-40 ppm already
KH2PO4: none, tanks always at 2 ppm
K2SO4: 6ppm 3x a week

Plantex CSM+B: 0.0145 ppm x3 a week
DTPA 11%: 0.02 ppm x3 a week

Water changes: 33% every 7 days

Is it just an Iron deficiency?

Is it possibly a Magnesium deficiency (Dark veins, light leaf color)? The water report in my city doesn't have Magnesium listed in its CCR. CCR Link

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Zapins

· #2 · Feb 9, 2017

SingAlongWithTsing said:
Is it just an Iron deficiency?

Yes basically 100% an iron deficiency. Correct location, color, and very low iron dosing levels.

Dose 0.2 to 0.3 ppm iron three times a week for a total of 0.6 to 0.9 ppm and you will solve this issue. I'd use CSM+B to do this instead of the DTPA chelated iron. It is more widely used and understood and doesn't discolor your water like DTPA iron.

Iron is an immobile nutrient that cannot be removed from old leaves. This is why only the newer leaves are pale, not the old.

What would be interesting is if you only made 1 change to your dosing regimen. Simply add the amount of iron I recommended and then take another photo in 1-2 weeks from now from the same angle. You will be amazed at the difference in color. By doing this you can rule out all other "possibilities" and prove it is an iron deficiency.

SingAlongWithTsing said:
Is it possibly a Magnesium deficiency (Dark veins, light leaf color)? The water report in my city doesn't have Magnesium listed in its CCR. CCR Link

Nope. Magnesium deficiency would be pale interveinal tissue (normal dark veins) on old leaves only, not new leaves. This is because it is a mobile nutrient and can be removed from old leaves and used to keep new leaves healthy.

More reading on the issue if you are interested:

From: http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=686

DeficiencyFinder said:
Iron is an immobile plant nutrient. This means plants are unable to salvage iron from older tissue for use in new leaves when environmental iron becomes limited. Iron deficiency starts in the newest leaves first. Leaves will begin to grow in paler than they should be but will be of normal size and shape. As the deficiency becomes moderately severe newer leaves become increasingly more chlorotic (pale), eventually becoming very light or completely white. In red species this type of damage makes the new leaves look pink rather than yellow or white as in green plants. When the deficiency is severe older leaves that were once green may also start to lose pigmentation and become pale as well. The newest leaves may start to deteriorate and develop necrotic patches or holes.

Image 1 shows a good example of what iron deficiency looks like in red plants. The newest leaves are a light pink hue and since the deficiency is severe in image 1 & 2 holes have begun to develop and the leaf has started to deteriorate. If left untreated the plant will eventually die back leaving only the old growth. Image 3 shows a full tank shot of what the entire Ludwigia sp. plant looks like when moderately iron deficient. Notice that other plants have not yet begun to show iron deficiency symptoms. Different plant species possess different tolerances to iron deficiency and some (like Ludwigia sp.) will show symptoms before other plants.

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SingAlongWithTsing

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 10, 2017

Zapins said:
Yes basically 100% an iron deficiency. Correct location, color, and very low iron dosing levels.

Dose 0.2 to 0.3 ppm iron three times a week for a total of 0.6 to 0.9 ppm and you will solve this issue. I'd use CSM+B to do this instead of the DTPA chelated iron. It is more widely used and understood and doesn't discolor your water like DTPA iron.

Iron is an immobile nutrient that cannot be removed from old leaves. This is why only the newer leaves are pale, not the old.

What would be interesting is if you only made 1 change to your dosing regimen. Simply add the amount of iron I recommended and then take another photo in 1-2 weeks from now from the same angle. You will be amazed at the difference in color. By doing this you can rule out all other "possibilities" and prove it is an iron deficiency.

I'm not sure if a tank could have multiple deficiencies at once but i figured i'd ask just incase

Do you think the low iron and low csmb dosing levels also caused the leaf curling in my ar mini and staurogyne purple

Ludwigia Sp Red has a bit of a crinkle too

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Zapins

· #4 · Feb 10, 2017

Generally only 1 deficiency can affect an individual plant. So it would be iron deficiency for all plants in the tank.

Curling leaves aren't usually a great indicator of anything in particular. From what I've seen leaves will curl for many reasons, similar to how there are hundreds of types of human colds out there but they all generally tend to give you a runny nose and sore throat. It is just a general nonspecific symptom in my opinion.

I'd up the CSM+B first and see if that solves the issue before looking for other causes.

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SingAlongWithTsing

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 18, 2017

1 week later, the previously peach colored stems are improving. the stem from the 1st post is still green but it's improving.
Plantex CSMB: 0.058 ppm of Fe
Fe DTPA 11%: 0.18 ppm
Used more DTPA than CSMB cuz my substrate's inert and don't want to risk overdosing micros

trimmed and replanted the tops today. the stem in the center of the pic is the bottom half of the the stem from the 1st post. bit peachy, pin holes.

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jmccullough108

· #6 · Feb 20, 2017

I dose iron weekly with mine and use eco complete. I have a Fluval Fresh plant 2.0. Mine gets super red. Good luck to you!

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fablau

· #7 · Feb 20, 2017

jmccullough108 said:
I dose iron weekly with mine and use eco complete. I have a Fluval Fresh plant 2.0. Mine gets super red. Good luck to you!

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Nice plants! How much iron do you dose? What kind (DTPA, etc)?

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jmccullough108

· #8 · Feb 20, 2017

fablau said:
Nice plants! How much iron do you dose? What kind (DTPA, etc)?

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Thanks! Just ferrous gluconate. I actually use the "Easy Iron" from aquarium CoOp and dose it with my micros the day after my water change.

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fablau

· #9 · Feb 20, 2017

jmccullough108 said:
Thanks! Just ferrous gluconate. I actually use the "Easy Iron" from aquarium CoOp and dose it with my micros the day after my water change.

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Thank you for the fast reply. May I ask you how much do you dose of that?

Thank you again.

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ed.junior

· #10 · Feb 21, 2017

You should get good reds when you have good amount of red lights, reasonable amounts of Iron and a slight nitrogen deficiency.

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