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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.joma-shrimp.de/de/entry/sind-blue-bolts-und-red-bolts-taiwan-garnelen

It's in German but google translate translates it fairly well (you always get a few funny words that don't make sense with Google but it's readable at least)


Basically the gist is that are BB's really Taiwan Bee's or are they Blue Snow Whites?

In the beginning of Taiwan Bee's, there was no blue bolt's, only King Kong/Wine Red variations. As the TB's were far and few in between and very fragile, they bred them with other Bee shrimp and cross the F1's with each other and other TB's (mischlings, we know lots about this and that it was done) and this produces more TB's.

During this crossing times, they used snow whites as well and out of that came the odd blue bolt.

They do make a few valid points.

When you cross any variations of WR and KK's, you get both. Even KK x KK you will get WR's and you seem to get various grades out of them from 2 bar to extremes and you get a mix of red and blacks, more so than breeding CRS x CBS.

When you cross BB x BB, you get BB'. You don't get any KK's or WR's out of the bunch, only BB's of various blue from the headgear to full body blue.

If this is the case, it's pretty obvious that shadow panda's and shadow KK's came from a BB x TB crossing a few times to get the blue to express.

If you're kept nice snow whites for a while, you may be seen bits of blue in them , especially the cheek area and this is without any TB gene influence, so the blue is already there in some snow whites to a very small extent, so did a TB crossing give them the ability to express that further? The thing about TB's is the color is intense, it seems to always be solid unlike CRS/CBS, so a bit of TB genes' in a snow white might help them express that blue to be a BB.

So the question is, are blue bolts really Taiwan Bee's or are they just a blue snow white that the TB's were used at one point to express the blue better but now would be their own sub-branch or sub-color of the common bee shrimp?

Thoughts/opinions?
 

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The Security Dude
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I had always wondered that issue above. As I think they are just a snow white variation. As I think the red bolt is too. I often see slight color changes in others Snow Whites. Plus with the lack of coloration being solid in them brings a good point to them being a snow white variation. Good read
 

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Except when I crossed blue bolt with blue bolt I got a mix of panda, shadow panda and Blue bolt. And also I get blue bolt from BKK x BKK, and more recently I got blue bolt from CRS mischling x CRS mischling.

Seems like whatever caused it to begin with (which was crossing BKK with golden, and then back crossing to bkk) is moot now, because the taiwan bee genetics are all muddy, with a BKK x BKK creating any of the possible color schemes.

You can do you own experiment by crossing male BKK with female golden, then crossing the male f1s with a female BKK. Should answer your questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Except when I crossed blue bolt with blue bolt I got a mix of panda, shadow panda and Blue bolt. And also I get blue bolt from BKK x BKK, and more recently I got blue bolt from CRS mischling x CRS mischling.

Seems like whatever caused it to begin with (which was crossing BKK with golden, and then back crossing to bkk) is moot now, because the taiwan bee genetics are all muddy, with a BKK x BKK creating any of the possible color schemes.

You can do you own experiment by crossing male BKK with female golden, then crossing the male f1s with a female BKK. Should answer your questions.
Ya I think at this point of the TB's, with people making mischlings to people keeping BB's with TB's, the genetics of them are all over the place and they seem to carry more or all kinds of BB/KK/WR now. I think it says in the article (or I read it somewhere else) that they are even trying to refine the TB genes to get KK's breeding only KK's, etc.

I think the point was that initially, there was no BB's until snow whites were used to make mischlings, now I agree though, the gene's are all over the place. Even using mischlings and then selling TB's back from there, even if they are pure TB's, they now have more CRS/CBS/snow/golden genes and probably most of our TB's are now mixed to some extent, so we get a wider expression of the different types they can produce. Look at the shadow-SS pattern-pinto panda's and stuff. This is probably a result of the mixing and using bee's as the carrier of the TB gene.
 

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Except when I crossed blue bolt with blue bolt I got a mix of panda, shadow panda and Blue bolt. And also I get blue bolt from BKK x BKK, and more recently I got blue bolt from CRS mischling x CRS mischling.

Seems like whatever caused it to begin with (which was crossing BKK with golden, and then back crossing to bkk) is moot now, because the taiwan bee genetics are all muddy, with a BKK x BKK creating any of the possible color schemes.

You can do you own experiment by crossing male BKK with female golden, then crossing the male f1s with a female BKK. Should answer your questions.
I have also gotten blue bolts from cbs hybrid x cbs hybrid (mischling) it really shocked me and it must be very rare as it never happened again.

But Liam is right TB genetics are so strange especially when you throw in cbs hybrids with unknown genetic backgrounds.
 
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