[VeeSe]

Hi all,

So I have some H. tenellum aka pygmy chain sword, and I just can't figure out why it looks like this. It's sending out runners everywhere but after awhile the tips look like this:

I've since stopped injecting CO2 into the tank due to other issues, but that pic was taken when I was injecting CO2 and have low/lowish medium light. I was dosing full EI at the time, so I can't figure out where this deficiency is coming from.... first thing to look at is always CO2 I guess... but the drop checker on the other side of the tank from the CO2 entry point turned lime green every day and I measured a pH drop of about 1.0 daily, so if it's CO2, it must be bad flow down low in the tank?? If that's true, I don't know why my Blyxa is doing fantastic (might be the best looking plant in my tank) and remains looking great even without CO2 injection.

The other thing I can think of is iron. Could it be, since it's a sword plant, that it just needs more iron? Otherwise I'm just stumped. I feel like I'm providing everything necessary but it just continues to look like that (no change for weeks).

Thanks for the help.
-VeeSe

edit: for comparison, here's Blyxa in the same tank and all parameters the same (obviously)

 

[HolyAngel]

Hmm.. I haven't seen that in mine but I dose plenty of iron.. I'd say it's that but I'm not positive.

 

[VeeSe]

Hmm.. I haven't seen that in mine but I dose plenty of iron.. I'd say it's that but I'm not positive.

Funny you say that. These came from your tank; started out as 6-8 plantlets and now are a bajillion crappy looking ones. Do you just dry dose iron into your tank? I'm thinking like 1/16 tsp 1-2x a week should be fine but I heard that the chelated iron only stays available to plants for around 24 hours.

 

[HolyAngel]

Yeah I figured as much ^^
I actually mix a solution(1TBSP/250ml) from %13 EDTA iron chelate plus whatever comes in csm+b and dose 5ml a day. lately though I've just made a mix with it in my trace mix and just dose that Every other day per EI, but basically the same thing.

 

[VeeSe]

If it's not iron, what else could it be? Trying to cover all the bases here. Since chain sword is apparently a pretty low demand plant, I'm not sure why this could be happening, while other, more demanding plants like Blyxa are going nuts.

 

[happi]

up your N and Ca to see what happen next

 

[VeeSe]

up your N and Ca to see what happen next

Hmmmm I do have CaSO4 handy...

 

[JasonG75]

up your N and Ca to see what happen next

Exactly what I was going to say...Test your N - if its LOW, DOSE IT.

 

[happi]

Exactly what I was going to say...Test your N - if its LOW, DOSE IT.

even with test you will find that N might be high, but there is difference between the N from buildup vs the one we dose with the ferts.

 

[HD Blazingwolf]

browing from the tip looks to me like NO3 def.. my .02

my swords when low on iron have brown streaks in the leaves

 

[VeeSe]

My nitrate tests during this period yielded 40ppm nitrates or so, so it wasn't low by any means. Tested the kit on my tapwater and got 0ppm reading, while water company reports 0.5ppm, so I'm pretty sure it's not a nitrogen deficiency.

Also, I just experienced a massive die-off of dwarf sag in my tank and I'm not sure why at all.

 

[happi]

My nitrate tests during this period yielded 40ppm nitrates or so, so it wasn't low by any means. Tested the kit on my tapwater and got 0ppm reading, while water company reports 0.5ppm, so I'm pretty sure it's not a nitrogen deficiency.

Also, I just experienced a massive die-off of dwarf sag in my tank and I'm not sure why at all.

did you miss my post?

 

[dp12man]

Its not N deficiency. 40 ppm your plants will turn neon green, get that to around 15-20ppm. In your 2nd pic is that Limnophila Aromatica or Ludwiga Cuba in the front(its not to clear) might even be stella broad leaf? And your Blyxa is a nice green color so your N is actually over the top. Ca/MN leaves holes in plants or makes them yellowish. You have BBA, just up the circulation thru the swords. But you have to go in there and chop every leaf that has a trace of it. It will help the plant in the long run. Don't dose iron no need for it. And turn the CO2 back on/up. And some Po4 that blyxa should be a deep green a little bronze.

 

[FishFarmer]

I'd say it's probably some micro nutrient--I have some in my tank, and it is somewhat finnicky too. Mine are not exhibiting the same symptoms as yours, but I dose Flourish Comprehensive fert twice/week and all of my other plants are growing very well, but my chain sword is somewhat chlorotic. I dose no micros (except for what's in the Flourish) so I have a hunch that Pygmy Chain Sword required more micros than most other plants--possibly iron. Other than that my other guess would be potassium (I know, that's not a micro lol).

 

[VeeSe]

did you miss my post?

Well I read it, but can you elaborate on the science behind what makes this true?

 

[VeeSe]

Its not N deficiency. 40 ppm your plants will turn neon green, get that to around 15-20ppm. In your 2nd pic is that Limnophila Aromatica or Ludwiga Cuba in the front(its not to clear) might even be stella broad leaf? And your Blyxa is a nice green color so your N is actually over the top. Ca/MN leaves holes in plants or makes them yellowish. You have BBA, just up the circulation thru the swords. But you have to go in there and chop every leaf that has a trace of it. It will help the plant in the long run. Don't dose iron no need for it. And turn the CO2 back on/up. And some Po4 that blyxa should be a deep green a little bronze.

It is L. aromatica that I've been trying to grow out from a stub of a stem. Gotten to quite a few inches now so it's going ok so far. As far as lowering N from 40ppm to 15-20ppm, I don't really see a reason to do that right now. I've not seen anybody suggest that 15-20ppm is an optimal level to keep regarding plant health (at this point I am new enough not to even care about coloration, as long as they are healthy I am fine), and I don't really monitor what my nitrates are at unless I'm testing for deficiencies (so it may very well be much lower now since I stopped dosing full EI and cut CO2). As long as it's not an N deficiency I'm fine with that (I'd like to understand happi's post a little more to see what I can learn from that).

As far as the BBA, it's mostly gone nowadays (still there a little bit). I agree with turning the CO2 back on, but I can't turn it back on because I didn't turn it off by choice; I was forced to do it (had to replace multiple pieces of equipment in the setup, including the regulator itself). I will have it back up and running soon, hopefully, but the deficiency emerged while it was still on and is not getting noticeably worse with CO2 off, which either means that it was not getting any CO2 initially due to bad flow and so it's been CO2 deficient for awhile, or that it's not really a CO2 deficiency.

 

[DeChaoOrdo]

Do you fertilize the substrate?

I'm also curious what happi means, is the buildup difference a redox issue? Or is biological nitrate less available than mineral nitrate?

 

[happi]

Do you fertilize the substrate?

I'm also curious what happi means, is the buildup difference a redox issue? Or is biological nitrate less available than mineral nitrate?

i think you are getting to the point.

 

[happi]

Well I read it, but can you elaborate on the science behind what makes this true?

am not a science guy, but i have seen many posts are read the same written by many professional people here. i hope someone could explain this better, but IME there is a difference between dosing the N through ferts and from natural buildup.

 

[tetra73]

I thought I would bump this thread because I am trying to prevent the same thing from happening to mine... Have you found out what was the deficiency?