Ich!!! I am so annoyed dam pet shop!

4699 Views 34 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Dman911, Apr 20, 2017

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Discussion Starter · Apr 4, 2017

All, so I have been posting on here for some time and I have got invaluable information that's has helped me succeed.

I have a planted tank 240 litres and great HC carpet.

Also I have 12 new baby Fry Apisto so amazing to watch.

One problem pet shop gave me 12 silver tetra so I thought great... Put them in the tank only to realise a day later after they were in they were infected with white spot or ich... Including fin Rott...

Now I took them all back and returned them to the shop but now my fish have ich or at least showing signs as they are rubbing on plants.

I have increased the temp to 27.2 degrees. However I have fry and don't want to lose them....

I was thinking of adding lo salt as its high in Potasium and Iodine free. What's everyone's thoughts? LoSalt: FAQs | Frequently Asked Questions

Anyway I don't want to raise the temp any higher because of the fry plus I have Siamese Algae eaters and their max temp is 28 degrees so getting close here.

I am so angry with the pet shop for infecting my tank they shouldn't be on sale and if I wasn't such a newbie I should have looked but was too nieve.

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jboone82590

· #2 · Apr 4, 2017

Sadly its not that pet shops fault. It is yours. You should have QTd the fish before putting them in your tank.

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[email protected]

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 4, 2017

jboone82590 said:
Sadly its not that pet shops fault. It is yours. You should have QTd the fish before putting them in your tank.

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The pet shop should not have infected fish for sale... End of simple terms and shouldnt have had them for sale that's like selling a damage part to put in the engine of your car that then disintegrates and damages the whole engine after years of hard work. Garage wouldn't get away with it... Neither should the pet shop.

Anyway not looking to blame hence not mentioning any names I just looking for some advice.

Anyone got any words of wisdom to help me out?

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DigityDog70

· #4 · Apr 4, 2017

1. If the stress factor of your fish is minimal, then we're off to an advantages start.
2. This is huge... and I'm hoping you're going to say yes. Do you have another tank so that you can hospitalize some of your more delicate friends? If not, then you made two major mistakes here my friend and this is going to be a challenge.

3. If you have a quarantine tank, then great, turn up the temp to 82F, treat with ich medicine and pour some salt in and turn off the lights.

If you do not have any second tank... then you're just going to have roll the dice and keep the temp. up and start treating your fish and hope you lose as few as possible. You may want to treat for fungus and bacteria and ich using a three pronged approach? MELAFIX, PIMAFIX and StressCoat+ and ParaGuard are always on my shelf, above my QT tanks. I usually quarantine for 3-4 weeks, but sometimes not even that is enough and due to stress fish get sick anyhow.

Going forward, everyone should have a few bags of bio-media in mesh bags in a tank, hospital quarantine tank, at least one sponge filter that is in a running healthy tank, preferably two so that you can fire up a QT tank at will and turn off the lights. I would put one bag of media in the middle of the QT tank and put the second bag of media in an HOB filter in the QT tank if possible. Min. size of a QT tank should be 5 Gal. but 10 - 15 is ideal.

Good luck.

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[email protected]

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 4, 2017

DigityDog70 said:
1. If the stress factor of your fish is minimal, then we're off to an advantages start.

2. This is huge... and I'm hoping you're going to say yes. Do you have another tank so that you can hospitalize some of your more delicate friends? If not, then you made two major mistakes here my friend and this is going to be a challenge.

3. If you have a quarantine tank, then great, turn up the temp to 82F, treat with ich medicine and pour some salt in and turn off the lights.

If you do not have any second tank... then you're just going to have roll the dice and keep the temp. up and start treating your fish and hope you lose as few as possible. You may want to treat for fungus and bacteria and ich using a three pronged approach?

Going forward, everyone should have a few bags of bio-media in mesh bags in a tank, hospital quarantine tank, at least one sponge filter that is in a running healthy tank, preferably two so that you can fire up a QT tank at will and turn off the lights. I would put one bag of media in the middle of the QT tank and put the second bag of media in an HOB filter in the QT tank if possible. Min. size of a QT tank should be 5 Gal. but 10 - 15 is ideal.

Good luck.

Many thanks.

Fish seem happier with the temp at least some. The others just got more aggressive.

I don't have a quarantine tank I thought I could treat the salt in this tank. Would that not be possible? There is no signs of white spots on my fish... Only the 12 that went back to the shop.

Can I add the lo salt? Will it kill the fry?

Or should I wait to see visible white spots? I know something is not right as they are rubbing on plants.

I am using easy life Voogle to boost their immune system.

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DigityDog70

· #6 · Apr 4, 2017

Making a partition may be your best bet! Salt is not good for your shrimp, it will probably kill them. You need to somehow create saftey zone/partition in your tank, it will obviously require some work, but considering the circumstances I don't see any other options. If you have any plans today, cancel them and see if you can come up with a way to create a partition in your tank. Since your fish are flashing, then they're sick, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. Sorry. We've all made this mistake... and think it can't happen to me, but the truth is, new fish will more times than not get sick and infect your current fish due to stress alone.

If you live near Davis Calif. I have a 5gal you can borrow and a sponge filter that you can have as well. If you have a small tank, see if your LOCAL fish store can help you out to setup a QT tank, they might? I know mine would, but then again I spend a lot of money there.

You should make sure your water has plenty of oxygen, especially since you turned up the temp, this is why a sponge filter would be best and if not, at least an airstone. All are cheap.

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Dman911

· #7 · Apr 4, 2017

Don't add salt, plants don't take well to it. I am actually going through the same thing and I have dealt with it countless times in the past. Yes it is our fault and I myself absolutely know better. Having a planted tank provides more complications when dealing with ich. The key is to recognize it and treat it early. I always raise my temps to 86F (this speeds up ich lifecycle and ich cannot survive in these temps) my fish handle this np and my plants seem to be doing fine so far although I have not had to worry about plants in the past when dealing with ich so we will see. I am also treating using Kordon Ich Attack it is organic and fish, plant and invert safe (first time using this). Stay away from copper based treatments. In the past salt/temp has worked very well when treated early for me (key is early treatment) but with plants I have had to adapt. Keep temps at 86F for a min of 1 week after seeing the last spot of ich on your fish I always did 12 days just to be safe if fish are doing well. It will not kill ich during the attached portion of the life cycle. Then slowly reduce back to your desired temp. Make sure you run an airstone as high temp water hold less o2 and increase surface agitation. I reduced my Co2 a little (not sure if its necessary but I did). Changing water more regularly to help with o2 and vacuuming will help reduce the number parasites available to re-infect. There is a ton more info out there but this might get ya started. Also if you have a QT tank you can pull all the affected fish out and treat something more harsh like a copper based treatment between .5ppm and .75ppm. But I would still keep the temp on main tank high for at least 14 days to prevent re infection.

27.2C is not high enough to kill ich. This temp is used to speed up the life cycle of ich to treat it fast since its only vulnerable to medication in its free swimming stage

Dan

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WaterLife

· #8 · Apr 4, 2017

Simple. Just use Kordon Ich Attack.

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Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 4, 2017

Dman911 said:
Don't add salt, plants don't take well to it. I am actually going through the same thing and I have dealt with it countless times in the past. Yes it is our fault and I myself absolutely know better. Having a planted tank provides more complications when dealing with ich. The key is to recognize it and treat it early. I always raise my temps to 86F (this speeds up ich lifecycle and ich cannot survive in these temps) my fish handle this np and my plants seem to be doing fine so far although I have not had to worry about plants in the past when dealing with ich so we will see. I am also treating using Kordon Ich Attack it is organic and fish, plant and invert safe (first time using this). Stay away from copper based treatments. In the past salt/temp has worked very well when treated early for me (key is early treatment) but with plants I have had to adapt. Keep temps at 86F for a min of 1 week after seeing the last spot of ich on your fish I always did 12 days just to be safe if fish are doing well. It will not kill ich during the attached portion of the life cycle. Then slowly reduce back to your desired temp. Make sure you run an airstone as high temp water hold less o2 and increase surface agitation. I reduced my Co2 a little (not sure if its necessary but I did). Changing water more regularly to help with o2 and vacuuming will help reduce the number parasites available to re-infect. There is a ton more info out there but this might get ya started. Also if you have a QT tank you can pull all the affected fish out and treat something more harsh like a copper based treatment between .5ppm and .75ppm. But I would still keep the temp on main tank high for at least 14 days to prevent re infection.

Dan

Thanks Dan! Really appreciate the response. I want the Kordon one but can't get it in the Uk for less than £70 which is extortionate prob due to Brexit. Dam government!

My tank is at 80 F or 27 degrees C in the U.K.

Fish seem OK... No white spot signs... Should I wait and just keep the temp high. They have a fantastic diet and doing daily 35 - 40% water changes.

I don't have an air stone.... Should I lower the CO2 currently at 5bps but drop checker lime green.

Remember I have fry and want to protect them...

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DigityDog70

· #10 · Apr 4, 2017

Dman911 said:
Don't add salt, plants don't take well to it. I am actually going through the same thing and I have dealt with it countless times in the past. Yes it is our fault and I myself absolutely know better. Having a planted tank provides more complications when dealing with ich. The key is to recognize it and treat it early. I always raise my temps to 86F (this speeds up ich lifecycle and ich cannot survive in these temps) my fish handle this np and my plants seem to be doing fine so far although I have not had to worry about plants in the past when dealing with ich so we will see. I am also treating using Kordon Ich Attack it is organic and fish, plant and invert safe (first time using this). Stay away from copper based treatments. In the past salt/temp has worked very well when treated early for me (key is early treatment) but with plants I have had to adapt. Keep temps at 86F for a min of 1 week after seeing the last spot of ich on your fish I always did 12 days just to be safe if fish are doing well. It will not kill ich during the attached portion of the life cycle. Then slowly reduce back to your desired temp. Make sure you run an airstone as high temp water hold less o2 and increase surface agitation. I reduced my Co2 a little (not sure if its necessary but I did). Changing water more regularly to help with o2 and vacuuming will help reduce the number parasites available to re-infect. There is a ton more info out there but this might get ya started. Also if you have a QT tank you can pull all the affected fish out and treat something more harsh like a copper based treatment between .5ppm and .75ppm. But I would still keep the temp on main tank high for at least 14 days to prevent re infection.

27.2C is not high enough to kill ich. This temp is used to speed up the life cycle of ich to treat it fast since its only vulnerable to medication in its free swimming stage

Dan

I'll bet you have a QT tank Dman?

Sounds like it based on your post as we almost posted at exactly the same time expressing the very same if not closely related points. I feel like creating a post about the necessity of a QT along with keeping extra bags of media etc. etc. and making it a sticky, when I get a chance.
Good luck to you as well with your sick fish.

Bump:

WaterLife said:
Simple. Just use Kordon Ich Attack.

This is good stuff and Kordon also makes a plus formula.

Reactions: 1

clownplanted

· #11 · Apr 4, 2017

Dman911 said:
Don't add salt, plants don't take well to it. I am actually going through the same thing and I have dealt with it countless times in the past. Yes it is our fault and I myself absolutely know better. Having a planted tank provides more complications when dealing with ich. The key is to recognize it and treat it early. I always raise my temps to 86F (this speeds up ich lifecycle and ich cannot survive in these temps) my fish handle this np and my plants seem to be doing fine so far although I have not had to worry about plants in the past when dealing with ich so we will see. I am also treating using Kordon Ich Attack it is organic and fish, plant and invert safe (first time using this). Stay away from copper based treatments. In the past salt/temp has worked very well when treated early for me (key is early treatment) but with plants I have had to adapt. Keep temps at 86F for a min of 1 week after seeing the last spot of ich on your fish I always did 12 days just to be safe if fish are doing well. It will not kill ich during the attached portion of the life cycle. Then slowly reduce back to your desired temp. Make sure you run an airstone as high temp water hold less o2 and increase surface agitation. I reduced my Co2 a little (not sure if its necessary but I did). Changing water more regularly to help with o2 and vacuuming will help reduce the number parasites available to re-infect. There is a ton more info out there but this might get ya started. Also if you have a QT tank you can pull all the affected fish out and treat something more harsh like a copper based treatment between .5ppm and .75ppm. But I would still keep the temp on main tank high for at least 14 days to prevent re infection.

27.2C is not high enough to kill ich. This temp is used to speed up the life cycle of ich to treat it fast since its only vulnerable to medication in its free swimming stage

Dan

Totally agree with everything you said. I went through a bad case with a couple infected clown loaches and infested whole tank. I used Kordon Rid Ich and worked great and also raised the temp to 86f. I had zero losses out of all 30 of my fish. Did not have shrimp at the time. Key is adding air stone for added oxygen. All of my tetras, clown loaches, danios, Cory cats, and pleco did well through the raised temp and treatment for 2 weeks.

I swear by this stuff. It saved my whole 60 gallon stock of fish.

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jboone82590

· #12 · Apr 4, 2017

[email protected] said:
The pet shop should not have infected fish for sale... End of simple terms and shouldnt have had them for sale that's like selling a damage part to put in the engine of your car that then disintegrates and damages the whole engine after years of hard work. Garage wouldn't get away with it... Neither should the pet shop.

Anyway not looking to blame hence not mentioning any names I just looking for some advice.

Anyone got any words of wisdom to help me out?

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If you didn't know they where sick when you bought them then how do they know they are sick?
Ich can pop up from moving the fish to your tank. I have had it happen moving from one tank to another in my house.
I hope your tank comes back from this. I also hope you learn from this in a good way.

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BigMek

· #13 · Apr 4, 2017

I'm actually going through ich right now, and I found this resource to be helpful. According to the article the magic temp is 86 F (30 C) which prevents both reinfection and reproduction. You need to hold this temperature for -at least- ten days, a lot of people seem to recommend two weeks. Any temperature lower than this simply speeds up the lifecycle and will probably kill your fish faster.

Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

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Dman911

· #14 · Apr 4, 2017

[email protected] said:
Thanks Dan! Really appreciate the response. I want the Kordon one but can't get it in the Uk for less than £70 which is extortionate prob due to Brexit. Dam government!

My tank is at 80 F or 27 degrees C in the U.K.

Fish seem OK... No white spot signs... Should I wait and just keep the temp high. They have a fantastic diet and doing daily 35 - 40% water changes.

I don't have an air stone.... Should I lower the CO2 currently at 5bps but drop checker lime green.

Remember I have fry and want to protect them...

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Raise your temp to 86F if your not treating. If you are treating then you can prob get away with 82F but if it were me either way I would raise to 86F. You can get away with more suface agitation if you don't have an airstone by powerheads or filter outputs that disrupt the suface Co2 is your call at the higher temps you will naturally get less co2 dissolution and increase surface agitation will further reduce so you should be ok but I did just for my own peace of mind and no math involved (more than likely not necessary). With ich we want to keep all our fish but the reality is we need to do what is necessary to treat it and the rest is up to nature.

Dan

Bump:

clownplanted said:
Totally agree with everything you said. I went through a bad case with a couple infected clown loaches and infested whole tank. I used Kordon Rid Ich and worked great and also raised the temp to 86f. I had zero losses out of all 30 of my fish. Did not have shrimp at the time. Key is adding air stone for added oxygen. All of my tetras, clown loaches, danios, Cory cats, and pleco did well through the raised temp and treatment for 2 weeks.

I swear by this stuff. It saved my whole 60 gallon stock of fish.

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This is different that Ich Attack as its formalin and Malachite green which is salt based and stains the water and silicone possibly but effective yes. Ich Attach is organic. Although I would try Formalin on its own I have decided to go with Ich Attach this time.

Dan

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[email protected]

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 4, 2017

clownplanted said:
Totally agree with everything you said. I went through a bad case with a couple infected clown loaches and infested whole tank. I used Kordon Rid Ich and worked great and also raised the temp to 86f. I had zero losses out of all 30 of my fish. Did not have shrimp at the time. Key is adding air stone for added oxygen. All of my tetras, clown loaches, danios, Cory cats, and pleco did well through the raised temp and treatment for 2 weeks.

I swear by this stuff. It saved my whole 60 gallon stock of fish.

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Does this work with a planted tank? Does it affect your plants or does it stain the glass or rocks?

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[email protected]

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 4, 2017

jboone82590 said:
If you didn't know they where sick when you bought them then how do they know they are sick?
Ich can pop up from moving the fish to your tank. I have had it happen moving from one tank to another in my house.
I hope your tank comes back from this. I also hope you learn from this in a good way.

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It was only after a day of watching them I noticed fin Rott and white spot. I didn't know until I inspected them closer..,

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Dman911

· #17 · Apr 4, 2017

DigityDog70 said:
I'll bet you have a QT tank Dman? Sounds like it based on your post as we almost posted at exactly the same time expressing the very same if not closely related points. I feel like creating a post about the necessity of a QT along with keeping extra bags of media etc. etc. and making it a sticky, when I get a chance.
Good luck to you as well with your sick fish.

Bump:

This is good stuff and Kordon also makes a plus formula.

Yes I do and that's all the more reason I'm pissed at myself for even having to deal with this. Simply I know better lol but shiny new fish syndrome seem to make me forget what its like to deal with since its been a some time. QT and media is a must. unfortunately for someone who knows better the QT tank doesn't cure stupidity

Dan

Bump:

[email protected] said:
Does this work with a planted tank? Does it affect your plants or does it stain the glass or rocks?

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Its affected by light and is recommended to have the lights off for treatment... so I would not use it in my planted tank but definitely in a QT tank. Also tetra's are sensitive and should be dosed at half the recommended dosage. Yes it can and I found will stain most light colored rocks depending how porous and can as has stained silicone in tanks I have owned.

Dan

Dman911

· #18 · Apr 4, 2017

to be honest most chemical treatments I have used seem to produce less favorable results in fish over salt/heat treatment in my past. But with a planted tank I can't do salt so I turned to Ich attack with it being organic. Just my reasoning behind it but I'm not claiming its the best or only treatment by any means.

Dan

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clownplanted

· #19 · Apr 4, 2017

[email protected] said:
Does this work with a planted tank? Does it affect your plants or does it stain the glass or rocks?

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It does work with a planted tank. Did not stain any glass or rocks but anything silicone it will stain blue. Small sacrifice but worth it for sure. See the stained suction cup for temp probe

Best to use after lights go out. So I would dose as soon as lights are out and should be fine. What I did.

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clownplanted

· #20 · Apr 4, 2017

I also am not saying it's the best or only but it worked well for me.

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