The Planted Tank Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help! My cardinal tetras are starting to get ich and my clown loach seems to have skinny disease. He is not eating and is really thin on the bottom looking dead for the past 2 days, barely any strength. How can I cure my fish. My tank is a 29 gallon and is planted. Please help! I do not want to lose any of these fish. All of the easy cures for all diseases says it is harmful to loaches. I have another clown loach that is healthy and eating as well.

Both loaches are 1 inch long. When they start to grow larger they will be moved to a larger tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,334 Posts
First move your clown loach to a 10g tank, all alone, raise temp to 87+ start treating with clout/metro or related anti parasitic. next start treating the tank with the ich in the same way, but use ich meds and keep the temps over 87.


Also keeping clown loaches even at a young age in a small tank isn't too great of an idea, they appreciate alot of room to fly around and they have vast territories, once you fix your situation I recommend upgrading them to a larger tank, 55g+ 75+ preferred.


also do a google search for epsom salt fish treatment, otherwise I can give you a direct link, it is also a good idea to treat your tanks with epsom. and as you mentioned CHECK MEDICATION LABELS FOR SAFETY. the meds I mentioned I doubt you'll find at a petsmart or petco but most local fish stores should have it, otherwise a load of online stores do. epsom salt you can find at cvs and home depot, and sometimes certain grocery chains I wish you luck and You shouldn't delay on raising the temps.


Another note, Change a large amount of water daily and refill with pre medicated and treated water. Keep your temps up, very important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
I disagree with the temp, higher temps hold less oxygen, ich mainly attacks the gills. If the infection is advanced, even with increased aeration, the fish may not be able to get enough oxygen. It's not considered a cure if it also kills the fish. I personally would slowly raise the temp to 80° and if the fish are not gasping, raise it to no higher than 84°.
I've used herbal ich attack in a planted tank and it safely killed the ich at 80°.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you both for the helpful information. The sick clown loach passed last night, wish I would have been able to spot his disease sooner(hid the entire time, only saw him yesterday and was looking terrible). As for the ich I am watching my tetras and the signs have gone away, weird but I will pay close attention to make sure it is completely gone. I am doing a 33% water change today and will do another one tomorrow. What water heater do you recommend, I have a temporary one in now but it has trouble keeping a constant temperature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
We only see signs of ich when it is attached to the fish, it can only be killed in its free floating stage. The ich fall from the fish, and it may seem like it is gone, but it will multiply and reattach. Only during the free floating stage can the ich be killed. Heat will speed up this cycle making the treatment time less to get to the free floating stage, but it's important not to suffocate the fish, some fish are more tolerant to heat, but again, if the gills have been heavily damaged, they may not be able to process the oxygen.
I personally use Aqueon Pro heaters, affordable and consistent. It's important to keep the temperature consistent all times.
I am very sorry you lost your loach :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
A retired research scientist is where I got my information from. If the gills are damaged enough, they won't be able to process the oxygen even with the extra aeration.
The higher temperatures have been known to kill fish, and what is your backing to say 84 is a waste of energy?
I know this is a planted tank, so salt is not an option. This is the procedure I'm referring to, and why I think it's important to not raise the temps too high. I'm just saying, if it's not a necessary in the cure, why take a risk if it can be fatal to the fish along with the ich?

Salt and heat for FW Ich:

1. Increase temperature to 80F -84F. Ich is principally a temperate zone gill parasite and fish may have issues getting enough O2 in warmer water. Start at 80F and if there are no signs of respiratory distress (labored breathing and/or hanging at the surface), increase to 84F.

2. Add 1 level measuring teaspoon per US gallon of salt (ordinary table salt) to some removed tank water, mix well to dissolve and add it back to the tank in the path o the filter outflow or other current. This can be done while the tank is warming up. If there are no signs of distress (as in #1 above), after 12-24 hours add another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon in the same way. Do not use "aquarium salt" as that has no legal definition.

3. Both salt and heat interfere with the division/reproduction of the parasite (the stage after the parasite falls off the fish and rests on the substrate or decor. It is effectively invisible at this stage). At and above 80F, the life cycle is ~3 days total. Therefore you need to hold at the elevated temp approximately 10 days (or at least 3 life cycles).

4. Some to many folks like to vacuum and partial daily during the elevated temperature period. If you do this, the make-up water must have the 1.5 teaspoons per gallon of salt pre-dissolved in it, and it must be at the same temp as the tank before it is added to the tank.

5. At the end of the 10 days, reduce the temperature to your normal operating level.

6. The salt is diluted out by water partials after the ten days are over. Routine 50% partials will effectively remove it after 4 partials. These may be done daily if it is desired to get back to normal operational levels more quickly (I do). At least the first 50% partial should be done immediately after the end of the treatment. After one 50 partial, the salt is down to 3/4 tsp/gal. After two 50% partials it is down to 3/8 tsp /ga. After three partials it is down to 3/16 tsp/gal and after 4 partial is down tp 3/32 tsp/gal or effectively undetectable.

Nota Bene: The disappearance of parasite lesions from the visible surface of the fish does not mean the parasite is gone. It is a gill parasitre, and if not cleared by the full 10-day treatment it may persist chronically in the gills.

As with other medication therapies, just about everything about the above process is critical, particularly:

-heater malfunction or adding cooler water can delay the cure, further stressing the fish.

- sloppy measures can adversely affect the fish.

-failure to pre-dissolve the salt can adversely affect the process.

-some folks have reported strains of Ich which required higher salt concentrations than what I use. I personally have never run into one of these strains. If there are such, then higher doses are in order, and could be increased at one-half to one level teaspoon of pre-dissolved salt per 12 hours. The timeclock would for ten days would start when the salt content is where you want it to rum. Maintaining stable temperatures is quite important during the process - temperature fluctuations themselves can mimic the reported effects of so-called difficult strains.

-high heat with gill infections of any sort can be highly stressful if the O2 levels will not support the fish easily. W atch the respiration rate carefully throughout the process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
It's totally up to you, if you think your fish can handle the higher temps. I would personally remove the fish to a hospital tank and treat them either with heat and salt, or with herbal ich attack, which I was certain wouldn't be worth poopoo, but did actually cure ich as a stand alone treatment in the planted display tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you again for all the advice I am going to try the ich attack that you mentioned and attempt to the aqueon pro locally before ordering online, my heater is set to 89 but barely gets me to 80.
Seven you said that ich can only be killed in free floating form. How do I remove the ich from the infected fish? I do not have a separate tank that I can move the fish to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
The ich falls off the fish as part of the life cycle, the elevated temperature will speed up that cycle. That's why it's important to treat for the entire suggested time so they do not return to the fish.
You can get Aqueon Pro heaters at Petsmart and Petco, same for the herbal ich attack.
Fair warning, it's smelly, reminiscent of cheap taco beef. Treat for at least an additional 10 days after seeing the last spots. I used double the dose and no ill effects to any sensitive fish. Please do still increase aeration during treatment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Oh, and it's always a good idea to have a spare hospital and quarantine tank, you can pick up something on craigslist. Smaller species are fine in 10 gallons. Set up as needed and do water changes as necessary to keep the ammonia from rising. Then when the fish have are good to go (either show no signs of illness as new arrivals, or have recovered from a treatment), they can return or enter the main cycled display tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,334 Posts
how is epsom salt not an option in a planted tank?
and how is salt in general not an option for that matter, people have used salt in planted tanks before with no ill effects, and next time you say where you got your source of information please do include links to such research, I have had ich once before and was super simple to rid myself of with no losses, including plants. Temps were set to 87 degrees and epsom salt was added i don't even run air stones the plants I keep provide plenty of oxygen along with a little agitation, I saw results in 3 days but treated for 3 weeks, again no losses even with my plants.

epsom salt is magnesium sulfate and last I heard it could even be useful for plants.

I may not be getting my information from a scientist but I do speak from experience.


either way just hope you fish make it, good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Hey, no problem, I'll ask him for links to the research. I'm not being argumentative just for the sake of, I've just heard of a lot of cases where the fish died due to high heat. I'm only pointing out the potential danger, and the fact that those higher temps are not necessary to successfully eradicate ich. I'm not doubting that cases of ich have been handled with no fish loss at higher temps, just that there is a risk.

I never said that epsom salt/magnesium sulfate is not aquarium safe; magnesium is something plants require, but since it is not sodium based, it's not appropriate for an ich treatment. I have always heard that sodium chloride damages most plant species , but if people have used it and had no plant loss, then that is an option I was not aware of and is good to know.

I assure you I am only attempting to help, I'm sorry my disagreement appeared contentious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
The procedure I quoted is from Robert T. Ricketts, as he is retired, his research days were mostly well before the internet, however, I am able to link to articles that he has written, and a link to the original thread on the ich treatment.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library/author/rtr/
http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforu...95-Dr.-Robert-T.-Ricketts...links-to-articles

And the ich treatment:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113&hilit=+Heat

I apologize for not citing my source initially.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top