First, how are you checking the bubble rate and able to obtain 2 digits of certainty?
I think my needle valve is defective...set it to 1.6 bps, now it's 1.9 two days later
Maybe I don't understand how pressurized gas works... I have a milwaukeee regulator/solenoid/needle valve/bubble counter. One of those all-in-one deals.
Over the past month I have been constantly fiddling with the gas, trying to find the perfect sweet spot that gives me the highest co2 I can have before the fish show signs of stress.
I set it to 1.6 bubbles per second a couple days ago. Checked it a couple of times over the course of the photoperiod and it didn't change. I figured pressure would make it change a little but nope. Two days later I check because im paranoid and it's like 1.92.
While trying to find the bps I want, ive noticed sometimes if I open it to increase the flow a tiny bit, it will slow down... So I open it more... It slows more... Then open it more and it gas comes out waaaay fast. This is transient and doesn't always happen.
Sometimes I will close it a little to decrease the flow and it speeds up... I am turning it properly in both cases.
I assumed this was just the way needle valves work. This regulator was bought for next to nothing from someone reputable I know on another unrelated forum who bought it like a year ago along with a tank, but lost interest or had some financial problems or a kid or something (forgot the reason he gave, but it was unused.)
So do I need a new needle valve or what?
Over the past month I have been constantly fiddling with the gas, trying to find the perfect sweet spot that gives me the highest co2 I can have before the fish show signs of stress.
I set it to 1.6 bubbles per second a couple days ago. Checked it a couple of times over the course of the photoperiod and it didn't change. I figured pressure would make it change a little but nope. Two days later I check because im paranoid and it's like 1.92.
While trying to find the bps I want, ive noticed sometimes if I open it to increase the flow a tiny bit, it will slow down... So I open it more... It slows more... Then open it more and it gas comes out waaaay fast. This is transient and doesn't always happen.
Sometimes I will close it a little to decrease the flow and it speeds up... I am turning it properly in both cases.
I assumed this was just the way needle valves work. This regulator was bought for next to nothing from someone reputable I know on another unrelated forum who bought it like a year ago along with a tank, but lost interest or had some financial problems or a kid or something (forgot the reason he gave, but it was unused.)
So do I need a new needle valve or what?
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Math. Count the bubbles in a minute, divide by 60. Repeat to double check.
I could care less about whether varies by .02 bubbles per second. What I care about is how it went from 1.6 to 1.9 in a couple of days.
I could care less about whether varies by .02 bubbles per second. What I care about is how it went from 1.6 to 1.9 in a couple of days.
The Milwaukee regulator, and all very cheap ones, use a cheap needle valve that is just barely able to work properly for this purpose. One way I was able to make mine work better was to get close to the bubble rate I wanted, then use the pressure adjusting knob on the regulator to fine tune the bubble rate. This seemed to work fine for me. The problem with the needle valve is that just touching it can make the valve stem move slightly and that changes the bubble rate. Not touching it keeps it set where you left it. I found that the pressure adjustment was much easier to make small changes with than the needle valve was. And, I was usually using about 20 psi as the outlet pressure - lower than that it didn't seem to be stable enough.
As Hoppy mentioned, the MA957 needle valve is not one of the best ones, and people often encounter the same floating problem that you have been encountering.
Unfortunately, without spending more money, there is nothing much you can do about this problem, other than keeping an eye on it every few days until it has stabilized. If you want, however, you can purchase a more reliable needle valve such as the Fabco NV-55.
Unfortunately, without spending more money, there is nothing much you can do about this problem, other than keeping an eye on it every few days until it has stabilized. If you want, however, you can purchase a more reliable needle valve such as the Fabco NV-55.
Why are so many worried about a .3 bps difference? The most important thing to look at is the level of change in your pH. How much did the pH change with the .3bps CO2 difference?
I use and have been using the very same setup for 5+ yrs. with no issues of great pH change. I have a .2pH change through out the day and that is not any issue no matter what you have in your tank. My pH stays between 6.9 and 6.7pH. Of course I also run a pH monitor, SMS122, by Milwaukee.
Check your pH and see if there is a difference greater than you would like. Remember it is not the bps that you should be really be monitoring but the amount of CO2 and that can be determined by the level of your pH and kH. Once you get the pH you desire and you know the bps then you can rely on the bps.
I use and have been using the very same setup for 5+ yrs. with no issues of great pH change. I have a .2pH change through out the day and that is not any issue no matter what you have in your tank. My pH stays between 6.9 and 6.7pH. Of course I also run a pH monitor, SMS122, by Milwaukee.
Check your pH and see if there is a difference greater than you would like. Remember it is not the bps that you should be really be monitoring but the amount of CO2 and that can be determined by the level of your pH and kH. Once you get the pH you desire and you know the bps then you can rely on the bps.
The pH change that is due to the injection of CO2 should not even be worried about.
You can probably get a change of about 1 unit when you are injecting CO2 at normal levels, and it does not adversely livestock in anyway.
Also, do not forget that you cannot directly estimate the amount of CO2 in your aquarium from just knowing the pH and the kH, as there are other factors in aquarium water that will affect the kH slightly, rendering the CO2/kH/pH relationship slightly skewed.
You can probably get a change of about 1 unit when you are injecting CO2 at normal levels, and it does not adversely livestock in anyway.
Also, do not forget that you cannot directly estimate the amount of CO2 in your aquarium from just knowing the pH and the kH, as there are other factors in aquarium water that will affect the kH slightly, rendering the CO2/kH/pH relationship slightly skewed.
The low quality of the needle valve is the main problem with the difficulty in finding the desired bubble rate in the first place. But your change over time could also be from one of more of many other factors such as changes in cylinder pressure due to temperature change, or back pressure change due to water level, or cleanliness of the diffuser. A lot of things could effect.
A good needle valve will certainly make it easier to dial it in, and will probably deal with most of the change over time, but nothing is going to give you 100% accuracy over time. But the acceptable margin of error is a lot bigger than I think you are expecting.
A good needle valve will certainly make it easier to dial it in, and will probably deal with most of the change over time, but nothing is going to give you 100% accuracy over time. But the acceptable margin of error is a lot bigger than I think you are expecting.
+1 for the suggestions about the needle valve. I had a Milwaukee reg. and could never get the needle valve to be at the bps that I needed it to, and instead of just replacing the needle valve on the milwaukee reg. I bought a whole new regulator setup. I don't really think there is anything wrong with the Milwaukee regulators, I just think the needle valves are junk. So if you want something easier to dial in the bps you want just replace the nv on your Milwaukee.
+2 here. I built 2 new ones myself and about ready to build a 3rd. I have a Milwaukee and Azoo regulator setup sitting around if you think yours is just defective...:icon_surp+1 for the suggestions about the needle valve. I had a Milwaukee reg. and could never get the needle valve to be at the bps that I needed it to, and instead of just replacing the needle valve on the milwaukee reg. I bought a whole new regulator setup. I don't really think there is anything wrong with the Milwaukee regulators, I just think the needle valves are junk. So if you want something easier to dial in the bps you want just replace the nv on your Milwaukee.
Defective/crappy lol. I guess it's just crappy...
Sounds like I need a fabco NV-55. Since I'm going to spend money, should I spend more for an even better one? Like... is this the best one to get?
It's my understanding that I'd leave my current needle valve wide open, and use a fabco needle valve inline after the bubble counter and before the diffuser. I have read that I won't need a new bubble counter after the fabco needle valve. Is this true?
Sounds like I need a fabco NV-55. Since I'm going to spend money, should I spend more for an even better one? Like... is this the best one to get?
It's my understanding that I'd leave my current needle valve wide open, and use a fabco needle valve inline after the bubble counter and before the diffuser. I have read that I won't need a new bubble counter after the fabco needle valve. Is this true?
Why not just take the needle valve off and put the new fabco (or whatever brand you go with) onto the Milwaukee reg. and attach the bubble counter to the new nv. The reason I ask is because the nv that went to crap on me, even when left wide open barely let 2 bps out.
You can do it like you said or like ua hua said. Either one works. You description is easier, but ua hua's is a bit cleaner. But not by much.
How do I do that? I just assumed it was welded on or something... I didn't know I could remove the existing one without a lot of effort.
It is a lot easier to do it the way you described, however if the nv is faulty then I wouldn't want to even use it anymore. I was able to get all the fittings off of my Milwaukee reg. with a lot of muscle and being very very careful not to bust off the gauges in the process. It will require a bench vise to put the regulator in so you can get enough torque on it to get the fittings off.
I would like to know this as well, what are some really premium valves? I'm getting an electronic regulator might as well go all out.Sounds like I need a fabco NV-55. Since I'm going to spend money, should I spend more for an even better one? Like... is this the best one to get?
I have not used the really expencive needle valves like the ideals, but I don't think they could do much better than the fabco. While you can find resonable deals on the some nice needle valves on ebay. The regular price on a fabco is a lot less than the regular price on the premium valves.
But that is my opinion and maybe someone who has used the premium needle valves might have a better knowledge than I do.
But that is my opinion and maybe someone who has used the premium needle valves might have a better knowledge than I do.
Are you talking about the aquariumplants.com electronic regulator? Those don't use a needle valve.I would like to know this as well, what are some really premium valves? I'm getting an electronic regulator might as well go all out.
For the money the Fabco 55nv is a very good nv for the money(usually around $25-30). If you want something really precise then I would go with the Ideal needle valve, but be prepared to spend a least twice as much as the Fabco.
Oh right. :icon_lol:Are you talking about the aquariumplants.com electronic regulator? Those don't use a needle valve.
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