[alindeman1989]

so story goes i got a brand new co2 set up from a friend cause he got out of the scean before useing it. its a drfostersmith one i know get a sumo or somthing but hell it was free lol. i was wondering what needle valve i should get. the regs a azoo.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+15525&pcatid=15525
this any good? what one you guys recommend?

 

[Darkblade48]

I have never seen that needle valve before.

I would recommend against the Clippard, as it is quite unstable at keeping a steady bubble rate; the Fabco NV55 is quite highly recommended. Rex Grigg carries them here:

http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html#needle

The Fabco NV55 is a very good needle valve. The Ideal is also excellent. In addition, you may be able to find cheap needle valves on the Swap and Shop forums as well as on eBay. There were some cheap Parker needle valves going awhile back.

 

[Left C]

SuMo carries the excellent Ideal metering valves. They can fix you up. You can add a JBJ bubble counter to the Ideal valve too.

 

[Robert H]

You realize that the Azoo regulator has a built in needle valve, at least I presume it does. You will either have to remove the needle valve by dis assembling the regulator to install a new one, or have the needle valve on the regulator wide open and hook up an inline needle valve.

All needle valves have whats called drift, changes in pressure in the line which cause the flow of gas to fluctuate to some extent. At most it is very little. The Clippard needle valve is miles ahead of any standard needle valve that comes with regulators, and works very well. At worst case you might have to re ajust the needle valve once a week to keep the same bubble rate. It takes less than 30 seconds. However, there is a locking nut on the valve you can set which prevents pressure from turning the valve, thus keeping it steady.

The Fabco needle valve, like HERE, is a step up from the Clippard with even finer control and less drift. The Ideal metering valve is overkill in my opinion. It has very fine control that you have very little need of. It is quite expensive. I know LeftC loves it, but his C02 system is the Rolls Royce of C02 systems! :hihi:

 

[Jeff5614]

As an ex-Clippard owner I can't imagine it being miles ahead of anything but then I guess there's always something worse. It required daily adjustment to maintain the same bubble count. I just assumed that's the way needle valves behaved until doing some reading on the subject. It doesn't even compare to the Ideal valve I have now and if I were given the choice between a Fabco NV55 and Clippard I'd go with the Fabco based on the reviews I've read.

 

[hbosman]

so story goes i got a brand new co2 set up from a friend cause he got out of the scean before useing it. its a drfostersmith one i know get a sumo or somthing but hell it was free lol. i was wondering what needle valve i should get. the regs a azoo.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+15525&pcatid=15525
this any good? what one you guys recommend?

The needle valve in the above link is a Red Sea. It actually works well but, at the price listed, I would get the the Fabco NV 55.

http://oregonaquadesign.vstore.ca/product_info.php/pName/fabco-needle-valve/cName/co2

 

[alindeman1989]

i know this may sound stupid but how do i install the fabco needle valve? and bubble counter

 

[Darkblade48]

The Fabco NV55 can be mounted to the regulator, but this is not recommended, as the 10/32 threads are much too small and fragile. In addition, the Fabco NV55 is quite heavy, so the slightest mishap could ruin the needle valve.

Most people opt to run the NV55 in-line; essentially, they find 10/32 to hose barb adapters and then hook airline tubing up.

There was someone that had a good pictorial guide, but I can't seem to find it. They even used zip ties to tie their inline Fabco NV55 to their regulator

As for the bubble counter, it depends which one you want to get/DIY. If you DIY one yourself, then you can simply feed the airline tubing into a container with some water, and have another tube that goes to your reactor/diffuser. Alternatively, if you want to buy one, I believe one of the more common bubble counters is the JBJ one. This bubble counter has 1/8" female NPT threading, and adapters can be found at your local hardware store.

 

[Left C]

... There was someone that had a good pictorial guide, but I can't seem to find it. They even used zip ties to tie their inline Fabco NV55 to their regulator ...

Hoppy is the one that you are referring to, I believe. Here is his regulator DIY.

 

[alindeman1989]

so if i get a fabco do i take the stock needle valve out of the azoo reg? or leav it in and run both?

 

[Darkblade48]

Hoppy is the one that you are referring to, I believe. Here is his regulator DIY.

That's the thread!

so if i get a fabco do i take the stock needle valve out of the azoo reg? or leav it in and run both?

You can do either. Personally, I would remove the stock needle valve.

 

[Momotaro]

so if i get a fabco do i take the stock needle valve out of the azoo reg? or leav it in and run both?

You have some options with adapting the Fabco to your set up.

Simplest way? You could open the existing needle valve all the way, empty the bubble counter, and run the Fabco inline. You lose the functionality of the bubble counter, but it is the fastest, easiest way to get up and running.

You could run the Fabco onboard (built onto your regulator), and there are a couple of ways to build it, however, as I have mentioned several times on this forum, I am not a huge fan of this. The #10/32 fittings needed are small and on the fragile side. It wouldn't take much to snap one.

The #10/32 fittings and bushings required are tough to come by as well.

Adding a valve like the Ideal is a more accurate, and solid solution to your situation IF you are intent on not running a metering valve in an inline position. The Ideal has more substantial fittings than the Fabco's #10/32, and will screw right into the Milwaukee's solenoid.

In upgrading a Milwaukee with an Ideal valve, I would in turn also upgrade the bubble counter. The Milwaukee bubble counter is completely open bottomed. Fluid in the bubble counter comes in direct contact with the metering valve. Some might be OK with that, but me...I'd probably prefer a check valve between the bubble counter and the Ideal. This is just my opinion.

Again, easiest and least expensive way to add a new valve would be to run the valve you linked to or the Fabco mentioned here inline with the existing stock needle valve wide open and the bubble counter empty.

 

[Robert H]

As an ex-Clippard owner I can't imagine it being miles ahead of anything but then I guess there's always something worse. It required daily adjustment to maintain the same bubble count. I just assumed that's the way needle valves behaved until doing some reading on the subject. It doesn't even compare to the Ideal valve I have now and if I were given the choice between a Fabco NV55 and Clippard I'd go with the Fabco based on the reviews I've read.

Its miles ahead of the needle valve thats on the Azoo, or Milwaukee, or Aqua medic, or JBJ, or JBL.... It has much finer control than what any of these regulators come with. Did you use the locking nut?

Fabco is better. Ideal is even better. No doubt, but the Clippard is far from being a cheap piece of junk.

In upgrading a Milwaukee with an Ideal valve, I would in turn also upgrade the bubble counter.

I thought he had an Azoo, not a milwaukee. Does the azoo have a bubble counter built in? You can also just use the needle valve that is on the Azoo and not change a thing. Your c02 will work just fine. Your plants will grow and bubble like crazy. For someone new to this whole thing, that seems to be the wisest course of action to me. You can always upgrade the needle valve later. Get a feel for things first.

 

[Jeff5614]

Its miles ahead of the needle valve thats on the Azoo, or Milwaukee, or Aqua medic, or JBJ, or JBL.... It has much finer control than what any of these regulators come with. Did you use the locking nut?

LOCKING NUT????????? lol, just kidding. Yep, I used it. Maybe I just had a bad valve but I'm happy as can be with what I have now.

 

[Robert H]

I'm not knocking what you are doing or anybodies choice. All valid points. All i'm saying is the clippard ain't all that bad.

As far as bubble counters, the JBJ and those like them screw on to the regulator in front of the needle valve. I don't know if the Azoo is like that or not, but there are several inexpensive inline bubble counters, everything from cheap plastic to glass to whatever. Some have built in check valves, but other than that paying big bucks for a bubble counter is a waste of money. All you need is something that is see thru, and holds water so you can count the bubbles.

 

[Momotaro]

Azoo? Even easier. If OP wants to go the way of a Fabco NV-55 they need to only open the existing needle valve all the way, and splice the NV-55 into the tubing. If they want to add a bubble counter, and inline counter can be added AFTER the needle valve. That is it.

I don't blame OP for wanting to upgrade the needle valve. While the stock needle valves are functional, they are far from reliable.

An upgraded needle valve is more solidly built and more reliable. I have been using Ideals and Swageloks for a few years now and had never had to fiddle with them on a weekly basis. I set the bubble count and it remains until I decided to dial up or down. I have never experienced any drift since I got away from the stock needle valves.

As far as bubble counters, the JBJ and those like them screw on to the regulator in front of the needle valve.

No. Bubble counters are added to the system behind or after the needle valve, not in front of them.

 

[Robert H]

No. Bubble counters are added to the system behind or after the needle valve, not in front of them.

Actually thats what i meant, it seemed to make sense when i wrote it! :hihi: It all depends on how you look at it!

The only thing i don't like about the Fabco, and i presume the Ideal since its even bigger, is that they are rather bulky and heavy. The control is nice. I have a jbj and a milwaukee regulator that has been going for over five years. To be honest, I don't pay much attention to the drift. The plants don't seem to care either! :wink:

 

[Left C]

Fabco and Clippard needle valve from: http://www.wcf.com/co2iron/
"Seeing is believing...(pictures to scale, our brass Fabco with white nylon adapters is 2.5" tall)"

I've never tried the Fabco valve, BTW. Below are comments from my experience.

At one time I had AquariumPlants.com's "The Best" (at the time) regulator which had a Clippard needle valve. It never stabilized. I was constantly adjusting it. I had to buy a pH controller for piece of mind. I kept getting up in the middle of the night checking the bubble count. I was afraid the "drifter" was going to kill my Apistos. AP.com no longer sells this regulator.

I know that AP.com and Rex Grigg don't build regulators with Clippard valves anymore. The Clippard valves are not listed on AP.com's site and Rex doesn't carry them either.

I've picked up new 1/8" FPT medium flow Swagelok metering valves in stainless steel and chrome plated brass with Vernier caliber handles for $10 to $12. I've also picked up similar new Parker metering valves at nearly the same price. You set the bubble count with these valves and forget about it.

Swagelok metering valve w/Vernier caliber handle

The Ideal metering valves are excellent too. They stay rock solid. No drift. I like them so well that Ideal chrome plated 9 valves for a few of us. These are my Rolls-Royce valves.

Ideal stainless steel metering valve

You can buy a brass Ideal valve for $65 and it is many times better than a Clippard. It doesn't need a lock nut to hold it steady. Plus, you can mount an 1/8" FPT JBJ bubble counter on the Ideal valve. Try that with a Clippard using a 1/8" MPT x Male #10-32 adapter. I know what happens because of its tiny #10-32 threads.

One of the very best things that you can purchase for a pressurized CO2 set-up is a very good needle/metering valve. It is money well spent, IMO. And, based on my experience, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money.

 

[Jeff5614]

It required daily adjustment to maintain the same bubble count.

At one time I had AquariumPlants.com's "The Best" (at the time) regulator which had a Clippard needle valve. It never stabilized.

I see a pattern. :biggrin:

 

[TheCryptKeeper]

I bought this metering valve and it is great.. heavily made and very precise.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350215833992#ht_669wt_958

definitely worth it. the fittings on it are 1/8 so your local hardware store will have fittings for it in their plumbing department. best co2 investment I have made to date.