How to determine fertilizer regimen and water change schedule for low tech tank?

4727 Views 22 Replies 7 Participants Last post by jsuereth, Jul 24, 2012

CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · Jul 20, 2012

I recently scaped this 6 gallon Fluval Edge II (with LED lights) and need some input on determining a fertilizer regimen and a water change schedule. How does one determine this? Comments and suggestions needed. Want to keep this as low maintenance as possible while maintaining good plant health (I think I used low light plants, still learning)

Plants: hydrocotyle tripartita, anubias nana petite, crypt parva, crypt wendtii

Water parameters: tap water unknown. (Anyone who lives in Honolulu, Hawaii care to chime in and post their tap water paramaeters?). Have to remind myself to have Petco test my water for free.

Lighting: stock LED with 10 hour photoperiod.

Substrate: Fluval Stratum

CO2: none.

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wkndracer

· #2 · Jul 20, 2012

I dose at water changes.
10ppm NO3, 2ppm PO4 and dose trace (CSM+B w/added fe)
my wc schedule averages out to about every 2 weeks.
(nice looking little tank!)

CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 20, 2012

wkndracer said:
I dose at water changes.
10ppm NO3, 2ppm PO4 and dose trace (CSM+B w/added fe)
my wc schedule averages out to about every 2 weeks.
(nice looking little tank!)

Thanks. But how did you come to that conclusion? Observing plant health? Past experiences?

pejerrey

· #4 · Jul 20, 2012 (Edited)

This is for my medium light tank but I describe how I figured what to dose and how to avoid wc, therefore the method applies for you to figure what to do. IMO if you start getting algae that means that you may need co2 or diminish the light intensity/period.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183530

wkndracer

· #5 · Jul 20, 2012

CryptKeeper54 said:
Thanks. But how did you come to that conclusion? Observing plant health? Past experiences?

I now watch my tanks and have records to refer to but starting out I started here reading on the forum and here http://rexgrigg.com/
The information is old but solid on all but the lighting section.
Ferts are covered in a simple and direct manner.
warning! while the linked site contains a site store the owner is not active even though the site is. (not a place to purchase from)

pejerrey

· #6 · Jul 20, 2012

You dot need to post in every sub forum the same thread by the way! Lol! I think I've seen this post a couple of times.

CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 20, 2012

pejerrey said:
This is for my medium light tank but I describe how I figured what to dose and how to avoid wc, therefore the method applies for you to figure what to do. IMO if you start getting algae that means that you may need co2 or diminish the light intensity/period.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183530

Great read, thanks for sharing. I was hoping to get this tank to 50% bi-weekly water changes and maybe once a week dosage with something like Flourish comprehensive. This tank won't be seeing CO2 and the LED light is not intense as my eheim aquastyle LEDs. Looks like a lot of the "figuring out of a regimen" is based on algae growth and plant health.

CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 20, 2012

pejerrey said:
You dot need to post in every sub forum the same thread by the way! Lol! I think I've seen this post a couple of times.

Just in the fertz forum. Figured I'd get the most responses that way since not everyone is into "low-tech" plants.

CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 20, 2012

wkndracer said:
I now watch my tanks and have records to refer to but starting out I started here reading on the forum and here http://rexgrigg.com/
The information is old but solid on all but the lighting section.
Ferts are covered in a simple and direct manner.
warning! while the linked site contains a site store the owner is not active even though the site is. (not a place to purchase from)

Thanks. I try to do EI dosing for my eheim tanks; got my ferts from GLA since I'm also running CO2. So far I've been having to make adjustments based on algae probs. Big learning curve for me right now.

But for this tank, I want it to be as simple as possible. Does daily water changes apply to fluval stratum as well, during the first week or so? Seems like that's the way to do things with ADA soil.

pejerrey

· #10 · Jul 20, 2012

CryptKeeper54 said:
Thanks. But how did you come to that conclusion? Observing plant health? Past experiences?

I absolutely love that you asked that. I wish I was as smart as you in the beginnings.

You go get a TDS meter, let that tell you when to change water. You may be surprised.

wkndracer

· #11 · Jul 20, 2012 (Edited)

pejerrey said:
I absolutely love that you asked that. I wish I was as smart as you in the beginnings.

You go get a TDS meter, let that tell you when to change water. You may be surprised.

TDS helps no doubt but the biggest hurtle for me was realizing what came out of my tap might not be the best to use. After that things seemed to fall in place. Read your thread and you have a very good style of writing (imo).

Following along with you're thoughts knowing my source water, GH, KH, NO3, PO4 and TDS both recorded clean and after additions is in reality what dictates changes and additions here. That's why I posted this "my wc schedule averages out to about every 2 weeks". But most don't and will not test anything and that's a choice. Setting baseline water parameters and a 2 week schedule rarely does someone get in big trouble before learning on their own. Seeking knowledge there is plenty to find.
Posting detailed replies a few don't bother to read it all (wasted effort).

Saw the other recent post you made and laughed. Posted several times along the same lines. (this is one)
Don't be a cow in the herd not knowing why is my message I guess (and don't trust Wikipedia and web forums LMAO!) without verifying information.

Ask what, ask why.

I do like this site most days.

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pejerrey

· #12 · Jul 20, 2012

Im glad that was helpful, other people can have different way to get to Rome, tho.

CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 21, 2012

I think I may invest in a RO/DI filter to take tap water out of the equation completely. Start with a blank slate. I wonder how much of a difference that would make or should I conform and adjust to my tap water?

Thanks for the feedback.

pejerrey

· #14 · Jul 21, 2012

CryptKeeper54 said:
. I wonder how much of a difference that would make or should I conform and adjust to tap.

Your call if your tap is ok. It's all about control, with tap you rely on the source. Things may vary.
Also, top offs with tap water build up TDS. Water evaporates pure, then makes sense to top off with zero TDS water. It comes down to a matter of preference and your method as there is people doing all kinds of combinations.
I like to know what is going on, I'm a control freak.

Diana

· #15 · Jul 21, 2012

If your tap water is OK, then skip the RO.
If your tap water needs some help, then RO might be beneficial to the people in the house, too, so maybe not think of it just for the aquarium.

Low tech fertilizer: Tablets deep under the substrate.
Water changes: If you are relying on the tap water to supply some minerals to the plants, then test for those minerals. For example, most tap water supplies calcium and magnesium. The test is the GH test. When the GH in the tank is going down it may be because the plants are using the calcium and magnesium. Change the water to supply those minerals. If this does not seem to happen (GH is stable) then a weekly or every other week water change might be plenty.
Fish food (are there fish in this tank?) supplies a lot of nutrients, especially nitrogen and phosphate. Test for NO3. If the tank stays stable, with the NO3 between 5-20 ppm then the fish food is probably also supplying many minerals and fertilizers. If you are not feeding any livestock in this tank then you will have to add fertilizers (root tablets are fine).

About the only nutrients missing (if you are feeding livestock in this tank) might be potassium and iron. Some water supplies these, though. Watch the plants. Pin holes in the leaves is the most common sign of potassium deficiency. Plants with plenty of iron will be rich green or rich red-brown, if that is the color they are supposed to be. Deficiency can be suggested by poor color. Green plants may be pale, yellow, and red plants will not be so red.

CO2 in a low tech tank might be enough from animal respiration and rotting organic matter. Otherwise a liquid like Excel is a good way to supply carbon.

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CryptKeeper54

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jul 21, 2012

Diana said:
If your tap water is OK, then skip the RO.
If your tap water needs some help, then RO might be beneficial to the people in the house, too, so maybe not think of it just for the aquarium.

Low tech fertilizer: Tablets deep under the substrate.
Water changes: If you are relying on the tap water to supply some minerals to the plants, then test for those minerals. For example, most tap water supplies calcium and magnesium. The test is the GH test. When the GH in the tank is going down it may be because the plants are using the calcium and magnesium. Change the water to supply those minerals. If this does not seem to happen (GH is stable) then a weekly or every other week water change might be plenty.
Fish food (are there fish in this tank?) supplies a lot of nutrients, especially nitrogen and phosphate. Test for NO3. If the tank stays stable, with the NO3 between 5-20 ppm then the fish food is probably also supplying many minerals and fertilizers. If you are not feeding any livestock in this tank then you will have to add fertilizers (root tablets are fine).

About the only nutrients missing (if you are feeding livestock in this tank) might be potassium and iron. Some water supplies these, though. Watch the plants. Pin holes in the leaves is the most common sign of potassium deficiency. Plants with plenty of iron will be rich green or rich red-brown, if that is the color they are supposed to be. Deficiency can be suggested by poor color. Green plants may be pale, yellow, and red plants will not be so red.

CO2 in a low tech tank might be enough from animal respiration and rotting organic matter. Otherwise a liquid like Excel is a good way to supply carbon.

Thanks for your input. Excellent stuff. Just scaped this tank yesterday so no fish. I gotta do some research on how to obtain my local water supplies water parameter readings. I never liked testing my waters cause the color codes and charts drive me nuts. Guess I got to get more experience in testing my waters if I want to be a serious planted tank dude.

Ptyochromis

· #17 · Jul 24, 2012

I have used excel before and it only made things worse.... Not only does CO2 come from fish/decaying organics, it also comes from the room where the tank is housed

I have also just begun to dose firts in my 29 planted with 2xT8, I use hydroponic ferts I have lying around. Fert choise wasn't very scientific, I chose ferts based on what I thought my tank needed; also paying close attention to the ingredients, trying to stay away from things like urea, ammonia, nitrogen and copper (or choosing ferts with very low copper levels). Dosing amounts were chosen based on the MSDS report as they are hydroponic ferts and the given dosage hovers around 2.5-15ml per gallon.
Every wednesday I do:
10ml fo Technaflora BC bloom: 1-4-7(1% nitrate, 4% P2O5, 7% K2O, .85% Mg, 1.37% S, .0072% boron, 0.0027% copper, 0.024% Mn, 0.00012% Molybdenum and 0.0139% Zn)

5ml Technaflora thrive alive green: (1%N, 1% phosphorus pentoxide, 1% K20, 0.01% Fe)

3ml of Seachem flourish comprehensive: (0.07% N, 0.01%P2O4, 0.37% K2O, 0.14% Ca, 0.11% Mg, 0.2773% S, 0.009% B, 1.15% Cl, 0.0004 Co, 0.0001% Cu, .32% Fe, 0.0118% Mn, 0.0009% Mo, 0.13% Na, and 0.0007% Zn)

5ml of Technaflora root 66: (2% nitrate, 3.25% calcium, 1.25% Mg, 0.11% Fe)

Considering adding humic acid, no idea how it will affect the turbidity. :icon_roll
I know people with high tech tanks follow regements like the estimative index, that involve large water changes when dosing. I also know that low tech tanks (such as myself) don't do many water changes (maybe 5 per year), in order to keep CO2/O2 levels consistent. But with all these firts going in the water, it may be helpful for the sake of the fish to do a small change when dosing ferts. Whatever I'm doing it is appearing to work... for now.

You can find water quality reports at ewg.org . Punhced in a random Hawaii zip here.

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exv152

· #18 · Jul 24, 2012

There's a distinction to make between CO2 and H2CO3 (carbonic acid). Decaying organics will naturally provide H2C03 but the plants need to adapt to taking up this type of carbon compared to CO2, the plants take up both carbon sources bu in different ways. They'll also get CO2 from the gas exchange at the surface of the water and the fish. The key to a low tech tank in my experience is:

1) little to no water changes keeps the CO2 levels consistent
2) a low fish load (smaller fish ie; tetras, rasboras etc)
3) adding micro once a week
4) adding macros only when needed
5) keeping the light low - med
6) test KH periodically to ensure the carbonate hardness is good

Ptyochromis

· #19 · Jul 24, 2012

I suppose you have a point with low fish levels and no water changes. Low bioload equates to a low nitrate level that plants can keep in safe ranges. I know I have always had high nitrates, just tested and I'm in the 40-80 range. I'm not going to hijack this thread, but what I do know is that I have had flourite gravel for almost a year now and I believe it is starting to run out, as my corkscrew vals are melting. So even if you have good substrate you still may need to supplement it with root tabs; cannot advise you on which ones are good, as I'm still trying to figure that out myself lol. Here is a bad pic of my tank lol http://i.imgur.com/wY7WVh.jpg

IMO, low tech has always been about minimal effort, but things change I suppose and even I am going against my policy of minimal effort by dosing ferts *shrug*.

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exv152

· #20 · Jul 24, 2012

Ptyochromis said:
...So even if you have good substrate you still may need to supplement it with root tabs...

IMO, low tech has always been about minimal effort, but things change I suppose and even I am going against my policy of minimal effort by dosing ferts *shrug*.

May? No, definitely have to fertilize, just a lot less. Even with the best substrate out there, ada aquasoil, you still have to fertilize. Some substrates have nutrients, but they all run out at some point. But root tabs and liquid ferts are two different things.

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