[schooldazed]

I joined this site sixish years ago and have learned a great deal as a result. Early on along the way I also gathered (on the cheap) many of the non-informational items needed for this endeavor. But there always seemed to be something even beyond intimidation that got in the way of me actually putting a planted tank together. Finally committed to myself that after finishing a big work project I would take the plunge and get my sleeves wet. Even ordered some plants so there was no turning back and really only had last weekend to get it together as the plants arrived early. Now despite the six years here of lurking and learning, I've come to find I really don't know splash. Truly no substitute for doing. So here I am again seeking the continued generosity and experience of this wonderful community. And, as is commonly stated here, will be using this thread for future reference/documentation as well as for the afore mentioned brain picking. So...


Seventy five gallon tank and stand purchased on CraigsList I don't recall how long ago. Also came with glass lids, 300W heater, and two Fluval 305s one of which I plan to use (along side a newer Fluval 306). Lights and approx. 8 gallons of Flourite which I don't plan to use atm. And a bunch of other accoutrement. An amazing deal at $200 I thought.


Branch retrieved from the side of the road at least two years ago. Drove by this piece on the way to work many times before finally pulling over and stuffing it into my mini van. I say stuffing because what looked like a two maybe three foot leafless cut shrub on the side of the road did not come home easy. I'd say closer to six or seven feet. When cutting out all the limbs to the reduced branch you see here there were a few leaves still attached which enabled identification - Holly.

Dragged the cabinet/stand into my office from the warehouse and was immediately skeptical it could take the weight. Some old water damage had progressed to some pretty serious rot on one side in particular. Briefly toyed with the idea to reinforce but decided to build a replacement stand on Friday instead.

Eight p.m. Friday; time to call it a day but talk about a ship in a bottle:

Saturday morning made my first stop to the hardware stores for initial plumbing supplies on the way into work. This tank is in my office. Once there, first step was to trim the branch to sit flat on the bottom of the tank and stainless steel screw a 6" x 12" tile to help keep it in place. Went with montmorillonite clay (Safe T Sorb) which I rinsed multiple buckets full multiple times for what seemed like had to be long enough. No matter. But still, so far so good:

The next time I turned around tho was reminded wood floats. Installed an Aquaclear 70 with plenty of filter floss to clear up the murky while I started the plumbing.

Had purchased a water filter housing for a Cerges reactor as well as a regulator, solenoid, metering valve, check valve, union, and the necessary fittings some time ago on Fleabay. Thought I had pieced together the other parts this morning that would be needed to finish the job but should have known better. Have never completed any DIY project with only one trip to the hardware store. The configuration I had initially envisioned was taking up too much room and my rethinking was going to require more/different parts. Stopped back at Lowe's on the way home.

Got an early afternoon start on Sunday. First cleared out enough Safe T Sorb to seat the wood on the tank bottom. Stirred up some more clay dust but not too bad this time. Wedged three sticks between the tile screwed to the wood and the rim of the tank to keep the wood in place while it waterlogs.

Was next able to complete plumbing the co2, Cerges, and filter with just one more trip to the hardware store. Remarkably looks to be leak free and cranking co2.

Then finally got some plants in though many will need to be rearranged. Was a long weekend, no doubt. In retrospect though, don't know what took me so long. Very satisfying but now somewhat distracting as it occupies all spare thoughts (not a complaint):

Started partial (~1/2) EI dosing last Mon-Sat and got the CO2 and lights on timers.


Okay, enough of the play by play and onto some questions. I have many but for starters the most immediate in need of answers?


1. My Gh is four but my Kh is between zero and one. Do I need to boost the Kh with some baking soda or other? And if so, how do I maintain considering water changes.


2. The wood is getting the dreaded white fuzzies. I've learned here that's not to be unexpected and not too big a deal. Should I totally let it run it's course uninterrupted or is it okay to try to remove what siphons off easily during today's water change? Might it hurt the anubias nana petite?


3. My light is two 54 watt T5 HO 6500K fluorescents. Right now the plants are not high light demanding. Might it be a concern I have too much CO2 and/or ferts for this light?


4. Can plants be adversely effected by water temperature change? Sounds silly but I don't know? Need to do a water change today and only have cold tap water available at the moment.


Thanks for looking and for any help on the above. Other comments, criticisms, insights, etc. are most welcome. I don't mind learning from my mistakes especially when they're brought to my attention in time to do something about them.


Cheers

 

[schooldazed]

04/28/19

04/28/20

 

[Phil Edwards]

Looking good so far! Whereabouts in NC are you? I'm just over the SC border from Charlotte.

 

[schooldazed]

Looking good so far! Whereabouts in NC are you? I'm just over the SC border from Charlotte.

Hey Phil - thanks for stopping by. I'm an hour and a half up the road in Hickory. Any LFS suggestions? We've lost the only one really locally some time ago. Don't mind traveling to find.

And while here, a quick update: Two weeks in and plants are growing. Hair grass has just about doubled in height - starting to float on the surface. Lobelia Cardinalis has shown the second most growth. Sagittarius subulata has grown a little I think and have just noticed it's first runner breaking the surface. During the last water change also noticed new leaves on all four anubias nana petite. I have nine clumps of Cryptocoryn wendtii brown which have shown little to no growth, three of which look worse than when planted. I guess to be somewhat expected but they are so small it's hard to imagine how long 'til they'll even be noticeable.

My original plan for this tank was to have anubias and buce on the wood with patches of mostly crypts and a few others and a tall thin plant anchoring the opposite corner from where the wood is buried leaving a fair amount of open gravel. Starting to rethink this somewhat or postponing that plan. Am concerned with the lack of plant mass/heavy initial growth to thwart the algae. During the last water change, siphoned off a little bit of filamentous algae on the wood closest to the light. At the same time saw the dwarf sag pearling quite a bit while the water depth was halved. So torn between too much light and not enough. Considering getting a second two 54 watt t5 HO light and a couple of colored bulbs and seeing what might grow. What do y'all think?

 

[Phil Edwards]

The best store I know of in the area is Aquatica, right off Clanton Rd and 77. I worked there for a brief time and the manager and owner treat their employees like [censored][censored][censored][censored] so I stopped supporting them after I left. That being said, given our options for freshwater stuff in the area, it's the best choice. As for light, I'd leave the light how it is for now since you've got such a low plant load. Regarding the plants, give the Crypts a few months to get their bearings and start growing again. They can take a long time to get happy again after being planted in a new environment and may take a good dose of patience. I just recently did a 100% redo on my tank, but will be happy to give you cuttings when the time comes. Until you get a lot more plants in there I wouldn't change a thing. I know it's tough; especially when visiting forums and wanting your tank to "be like that" right away, but patience now will pay off big time in the long term.

Regards,
Phil

 

[schooldazed]

Thanks for the above Phil. Did stop in to Aquatica and met a Tom McBride (I think). He warned me the plants were rough and, though hate to bad mouth any local business, he was not exaggerating. Still just the one light per your suggestion and accept the crypts are gonna take a while. I do feel the need to increase overall plant mass/add some easy quick growers to better compete with algae. May take you up on your generous offer of cuttings when the time comes but what I'm really looking for is some Limnophila guinnea. If you ever come across any of that...jk

OK, the last two weeks update:

05.19.19

The pic above is three weeks in before water change. The weekly hair algae growth has definitely increased from the week before but still mainly on the wood closest to the light. Most all came off easily enough from siphoning during water change. Am not really digging the giant hair grass. Ordered more plants to increase overall mass and replace the hair grass. Which brings us to week four:

05.26.19

Current plant list:

Cryptocoryne wendtii
Anubias nana petite
Lobelia cardinalis
Eleocharis vivipara - giant hair grass - removed
Micranthemum micranthemoides - pearl weed
Sagittaria subulata - dwarf sagittaria

Hygrophila pinnatifida
Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
Echinodorus peruensis
Hygrophila difformis - water wisteria
Hydrocotyle tripartita
Bacopa caroliniana
Ludwigia peruensis/gladulosa var. diamond
Nesaea pedicellata golden
Rotala wallichii
Vallisneria nana

and also:

A. unknown bulb from buceplant.com - Aponogeton of some sort?

B. unknown wild collected stem - thinking Ludwigia palustrus maybe?

C. unknown wild collected stem - arrowhead/heart shaped leaves?

D. unknown wild collected stem - purple serrated leaves prob. not fully submerged species?

Any info re the above would of course be appreciated.


When planting the new plants I discovered I have quite a diatom issue. Was not noticeable until I moved and stirred up the gravel when planting. Not really on many plant leaves yet but dusting the wood especially. So first fauna: eleven ramshorn snails - blue leopard - which are doing a fabulous job on the algae and replacing with snail fertilizer (tank half full i always say). Also got a second filter going to increase flow. The opposite back corner to the one filter is where the most diatoms can be seen so should help? And now feel with the second filter in I can do some more pertinent testing. So yeah, been keeping my sleeves wet just about everyday since. Grow baby, grow.

 

[Phil Edwards]

TJ's a good guy and gives good advice. I just totally redid my tank last week and have to say, yours is looking better than mine. Maybe I should be going to you for cuttings! As for that local plant, I could have told you years ago, but I've been out of the native plant game for too long. Roadside ditches can have a surprising array of aquatics growing this time of year. I've found all sorts of neat stuff in them in the past.

 

[schooldazed]

Thanks for the reply Phil. TJ did offer to custom order fish in reasonable quantities which I might take him up on when I get to that point. And thanks for the compliment tho have been following your thread and can't say I agree with your assessment. Would love to swap cuttings at some point. Would love to have new growth requiring cutting first. Segue to week five:

Post water change. Again siphoned off as much algae esp. diatoms that I could. Definitely less hair algae than before week four water change. Did have to clean the front and side glass which had a little green tint for the first time. Crushed one snail which was a bummer but have seen at least a half dozen tiny specks moving across the back glass and too many ramshorn egg globules. Gonna have quite the colony I suspect. Generally there was not a lot of noticeable growth of the new plants. Am hoping most of their energy was used reestablishing roots and that they'll soon take off upward.

The Nesaea golden looks pretty bad. Only two tops have any new growth. Had to trim two melted tops and most all other leaves have brown spots which I would call a fungus if they were terrestrial? Some of these spots were there when the bunch came in but not as big or as prevalent. If this progresses may have to remove all but the two new tops and see if I can save. Knew going in this one was probably the hardest to grow and probably beyond my skill level.

The C retrospiralis has experienced the expected melt but several original leaves are still viable and three new leaves have sprouted.

The H pinnatifida has produced some noticeable growth. Received one smaller top and another stem which I had cut the top off of. Super glued both tops and the one bottom half (three nodes) horizontally on the wood. Am hoping to keep them rather compact but not sure when or how to prune.

The R wallichii has just shown a little new growth. One stem is rather tall, has the most new growth, is broader than all the others and yellow vs the light green of most of the other new growth. Probably need to trim and replant but has the beginnings of a couple of side shoots right about where I'd like to cut and replant. Thinking I let them go a bit before trimming. These are where the diatoms were/are worst and the bottom bits of the smaller stems look a little rough. Hopefully diatoms will lesson and will get some real growth next week so I can trim and replant newer growth.

A few bits of the hydrocotyl tripartita got tall enough to bend over into the gravel. The hope is to get them to be somewhat bushlike/not too tall.

Think I've identified the bulb buceplant accidentally included nestled in amongst the Nesaea - Barclaya longifolia. Looks just like the pictures down to the rhyzome. Speeking of which, don't know how deep to plant it. There were not many roots on the rhyzome so have it just below the gravel in order to keep it down. Hope that's ok? The leaves are extremely fragile and it's in a spot where it gets a lot of flow. Is that a bad thing?

As far as I can tell, the rest look about the same as when planted. Don't guess that's a bad thing but it is hard to be patient. Lots of fun none the less -

 

[Discusluv]

Looking good. Looks like you are going to want to keep soft-water fish.They will love your water parameters.

Any ideas on what would like to add fish-wise? I can help

 

[schooldazed]

Hey there Discusluv. Would never turn down any help offered. Plan "A" definitely calls for soft water fishes. Angels have always been a favorite and what I most wanted when first putting this together. Having trouble deciding which kind. Think I would love a group of platinums but also like most of the other phenotypes so possibly a mix - silver or zebra, smokey or chocolate, marble, black lace are all to my liking. How many in a 75 gallon you guess? Considering would also like a good sized group of corydoras - at least eight. Not sure many like the warmth the angels do though. And finally a school of 12-15 rummynose tetras or other similar. My biggest hesitation re the above is that it seems a pretty typical grouping. Meh. Could end up with plan "B" - totally unspecified at this point. Whatcha think?

 

[Discusluv]

If you are open to doing regular weekly water changes you have perfect water for a wild-form of Angel- certainly something different than the domestics seen at your LFS. I can give you source information where you could get the types I list- if interested.
These Angels are extraordinary. I currently have a group of wild Altum Angel juveniles (Pterophyllum altum) that I am growing out- Ill attach a video I just took yesterday of the them.
But, there are others that are also available in wilds: Peruvian Altum Angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare var. "Peruvian Altum" or Pterophyllum leopoldi ,

If you did the wild Angels I would get 5-6 to allow them to pair up.
I would do Cardinal tetras- like 24 of them. Grow them up with juveniles and will get large enough to not be eaten by Angels. I actually have some green neons with my juveniles that most likely will become a snack, but Ill be moving the Altums shortly to a 180 gallon.

I would not recommend any corydoras- temps too high for wild forms. But there are several other ancistrus, baryancistrus, and L numbered plecostomus species that will work.

Other options are apistogramma species ( some varieties) and German Rams.

Video of my juvenile Altums.

https://vimeo.com/339766297

 

[Phil Edwards]

Hey there! It sounds like your plants are doing well, keep up the good work. As for fish, I'd go with 5-6 domestic strains of P. scalare as they don't have the growth potential Altums do. Those guys really need a larger tank go grow and spread out in. I've successfully kept a group of locally bred (in Atlanta) Koi Angels in a heavily planted 75 with little issue. One of the big plusses of domestics is they do just fine in the lower temperatures that plants appreciate. "Work with the water you have" is a favorite saying of mine, meaning go with plants and fish that do well in your base water quality as the more you mess with chemistry the more likely you are to screw things up at some point. Back in 2003 when I lived in Charlotte I kept a group of Discus and Apistos in a 90 gallon using Flourite and plain tap. The Angels were in full Aquasoil with higher CO2, but again, in plain tap. I recently added a school of wild caught (Project Piaba) Cardinals to the 80 gallon using plain tap and the only ones that have died were the couple that came in on death's door. If you dose a GH booster specifically to add Ca and Mg for the plants and not to hit a target GH you should be able to keep any soft water fish you want in your tank.

As for the Barclaya, it sounds like you've planted the rhizome just right. They normally show best in modest flow, but keeping it in high flow to grow out is a good idea. You're going to be moving things around in the future anyway. I guarantee it.

Check your pms, I sent you something.

 

[schooldazed]

Hey y'all - Wild angels especially Altums headline my all time favorite dream tank. But alas, still just a dream. Even if the budget allowed, think I would quickly need a taller tank to really do them justice. One day... So for now 5-6 domestic angels. I've heard Sterbai Corys are often paired with angels as they are more tolerant to higher temps. I like them too but think they're about the same tone/color as the Saf T Sorb. If domestic angels manage ok in the 74-76F range, could perhaps do other cory species. Really like trilineatis but also a group of metae, panda, adolphi, schwartzii would be cool colorwise. And have/will consider cardinals but would like to contemplate more dither type fish. Which group do you think I should get first? Oh, and how rough are corys with plants. I'm still terribly trepid when I so much as unintentionally brush a leaf. Can visualize them frolicking (read uprooting) around the tank. Oh, and the diatoms they must stir up. Good? Bad? Yikes, promise I'm not that neurotic. Indecisive, yes.

 

[Phil Edwards]

Hey y'all - Wild angels especially Altums headline my all time favorite dream tank. But alas, still just a dream. Even if the budget allowed, think I would quickly need a taller tank to really do them justice. One day... So for now 5-6 domestic angels. I've heard Sterbai Corys are often paired with angels as they are more tolerant to higher temps. I like them too but think they're about the same tone/color as the Saf T Sorb. If domestic angels manage ok in the 74-76F range, could perhaps do other cory species. Really like trilineatis but also a group of metae, panda, adolphi, schwartzii would be cool colorwise. And have/will consider cardinals but would like to contemplate more dither type fish. Which group do you think I should get first? Oh, and how rough are corys with plants. I'm still terribly trepid when I so much as unintentionally brush a leaf. Can visualize them frolicking (read uprooting) around the tank. Oh, and the diatoms they must stir up. Good? Bad? Yikes, promise I'm not that neurotic. Indecisive, yes.

Just about any schooling/schoaling fish will go well with Angels. Rasboras, Tetras, Barbs, etc. If you look at Barbs do a bit of research to make sure they're not fin-nippers though. If you'd like, once you figure out what type of Angels you want I'll be happy to talk with you about what schooling fish would go best color and behavior wise. As for Cories, I'd avoid them if you're using Safe-T-Sorb; that stuff's pretty sharp and can be harmful to sensitive barbels and such. That pretty much rules out Cories and Barbs. I typically avoid them in fully planted tanks anyway as they do tend to uproot carpeting plants and such; especially in less dense substrates.

 

[Discusluv]

Domestic Angels it is.

I like tetras with Angel's- personal preference.
My favorite with domestic Angels ( which can be kept at lower temperatures at 78-79 degrees) is the Bleeding Heart tetra.

But, other alternatives are : Diamond tetra, Lemon tetra, Cardinals, or Congo tetras.

I would not do corydoras on that substrate as well.

 

[schooldazed]

That's a bummer re the cories. Don't really feel the STS is sharp edged per se but I guess is somewhat abrasive on its face - like 2000 grit emory cloth. Did some searching here and found mixed opinions on cories and STS. Like anything else though I guess. What I did come across while searching the above is a pretty much unanimous experience of STS absorbing kH and with a kH of 0-1 out of my tap, thinking this is concerning. Mixed reviews of STS sucking up gH. I too subscribe to Phil's "work with the water you have" mantra, but you gotta do what you gotta do? What should I do? My gH test bottle expired some time ago and though my kH test is still within date, got them together so have replaced them both and will get some more comfortably valid data before and after today's water change.

Along with not being terribly comfortable with the stability of this tank, there's another issue I need to address before adding livestock. The hot water in the plant is not hooked up to my office though do have cold water. Thinking it will be easier to pump heated water from a 55 gallon barrel to the tank than to plumb in hot water. This will also allow me to potentially treat the barrel water as needed. If it does come down to it, any thoughts on target kh and gh values?

 

[Phil Edwards]

If the barrel solution works for you, go for it, lots of folks use that method. As for the KH/GH thing, try dosing after water change and then again midway through the week if you need to. I haven't added GH booster to actually get to a GH target in nearly 20 years. It's more useful to me as a way to supplement Ca, Mg, and often, K. It may be helpful to think of it like that too given your situation. As far as KH, if you're looking for CO2 consistency then you'll need to add a KH booster daily to make up for what's lost, or dose after water changes and call it good (what I do)...or not use one at all.

 

[schooldazed]

06.09.19 Week 6 post water change:

Not a lot to report from week 5 to week 6. Still fighting diatoms. Pulled/trimmed/split/replanted the R. wallichii, L. cardinalis, and H. tripartita and deep vacuumed around the left side. Stirred up diatoms on and around plants on the right side. Thinking now I spent too much of the water change siphoning directly on the wood. Think next water change I'll simply rub it and swish plants and substrate and just siphon the water column generally. May do this mid week/tomorrow. Guess all in all am seeing some moderate growth.

Added twentyfive grams NilocG gH booster to add Ca and Mg which resulted in 2-3 degrees gH. Added eleven grams sodium bicarbonate bringing the kH to two degrees. There must have been a little kH in the tank pre WC as four grams NaCO3 gave me >1 degree and it took seven additional grams added one gram at a time to get >2 degrees. The next day, however, kH was <1 degree. Guess the Saf T Sorb is still sucking up kH. I really want to add fish but thinking it's more important to get kH stabilized. Am leery of putting a lot of sodium in the tank. Am thinking I might should roll my own gH booster with MgSO4, CaCo3, and KHCO3 to speed up saturating the STS without adding all that sodium. Thoughts?

And been working on dialing in CO2. Tap pH = 7.3. Off gased tank pH = 7.2 (24 hrs). Lights on pH = 6.5. Peak pH = 6.1 (from approx. two hours after lights on (CO2 on for three hours) to at least three hours after lights off. Not sure what the pH level is right before CO2 starts. Gotta get to work earlier tomorrow. Thinking it's only in the upper six range. Have a little bit of surface oil slick. Seems to me there's quite a bit of surface agitation from the filters but... Guess I need to divert more flow to the Cerges reactor. Also shut off CO2 earlier and possibly decrease CO2 volume?

Also have been increasing my understanding of fert dosing. Thank you @Greggz for your shared spreadsheet. It has been most helpful. Am not quite ready to post it though as there are still some blank fields and some other values I need to hone.

Ok, time to sit back and enjoy the last minutes of tank light and ponder all that I want to do before calling it a day.

 

[schooldazed]

06.15.19 Week 7 post water change:

Diatoms may be a little better/less this week. Certainly post water change as I really stirred up the gravel as well as sponged the glass, rubbed down the wood, and brushed off the plants (multiple times). Installed an Aquaclear 70 during wc and left it on an hour after refilling before cranking the canisters back up. Then just left it running for now.

Finally see some wisteria growth. Thought and kinda hoped this would be the one I'd have to trim weekly. And some growth anyway on the other stems. Assembled all the vertical stems of what I'm thinking is Ludwigia palustrus (wild gathered)and moved to the left side of tank in front of the E. peruensis. Speaking of which, both have put out shoots with 5-6 plantlets. Guess I just cut these off?

And changed my GH booster to also boost kH as my STS substrate continues to suck up the little kH that's in my tap. Attaching a copy of GreggZ shared dosing worksheet. Again, most helpful. Thank you @Greggz:

First mixed five grams each KHCO3, CaCO3, and MgSO4 in a pint squeeze bottle to dissolve then squirted in tank. I guess the appropriate description would be chalky. I'm talking white water tank. Was a little concerned for a bit but water did clear up in fifteen-twenty minutes. So I did it again with five more grams of each. After that fully dissolved kH measured 3-4 and GH 4-5. Won't know 'til Monday if the Saf T Sorb sorbed all the kH again but suspect it will.

All in all, all's good. Wish my phone images weren't so washed out. Need to figure something out there. Also need to learn how to make the image a thumbnail that one can click and bring up the full size image. Could certainly use some help there. And if anyone notices anything questionable or even downright crazy especially regarding my dosing please chime in. Not at all confident and want to learn.

Cheers

 

[Greggz]

Again, most helpful. Thank you @Greggz:

Glad to see the spreadsheet helped.

Good record keeping is underestimated. I rely on it to help point me in the right direction.

And very nice start to a tank, really coming along nicely.

Will be following and looking forward to seeing where it goes from here. Subscribed.