HOB vs canister
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Ok so I have a planted 60 gal with a fluval 305 and an emperor 400. I want to get rid of the emoeror because of the surface agitaion witch leads to the loss of Co2 for my plants, Im thinking of a marineland magnum canister or something to replace it, any suggestions?
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Hi Krib
I have 2 hob filters and I totally get what your saying about the surface agitation. Ive also considered the canister filters but each time I did I remembered back in the day when I had one and what a pita they are to prime and clean out. Before buying one I would check and see what your co2 is like with the hob filters. I just bought a drop checker this past week and if the hob make a big difference in the co2 I would then consider a canister filter. If it doesnt make a big difference it wouldnt be worth all the hassle for me. Plus with a hob filter it helps with surface scum.
Please keep us updated because Im right where you are.
I have 2 hob filters and I totally get what your saying about the surface agitation. Ive also considered the canister filters but each time I did I remembered back in the day when I had one and what a pita they are to prime and clean out. Before buying one I would check and see what your co2 is like with the hob filters. I just bought a drop checker this past week and if the hob make a big difference in the co2 I would then consider a canister filter. If it doesnt make a big difference it wouldnt be worth all the hassle for me. Plus with a hob filter it helps with surface scum.
Please keep us updated because Im right where you are.
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surface agitation if u read further through here and stay current is positive for planted tanks. oxygen is just as important as c02 for plants the life of fauna and your beneficial bacteria.. its easy to add more c02 and the benefits of good surface agitation are outweighed by the cost of c02
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Well another reason I want to get another canister is that the HOB is really loud and without it my tank would be totally silent, seeing as i keep it in my bedroom. Fluval 305s are really not quite there when it comes to filtering 60 gallons and I always like to have two filters running so that when I clean one or if one has a problem I have one still on the tank. As for surface agitation being a help to plants because they need oxygen, correct me if im wrong here but plants produce oxygen during the daytime and co2 at night and I turn on an airpump at night. So im pretty sure surface agitaition would only be good at night.
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CORRECT!. however.. beneficial bacteria are just as important and.. they still need oxygen during the day or they will reduce the levels your fish are getting 
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my plants are constanly pearling so that should be enough?
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should..
how is ur circulation? lower circulation increases pearling? while higher circulation dissolves the o2 in the water column more regularly. my plants look like bubble stalks if i turn my koralia off..
ur probably ok with oxygen levels but i play it safe, and there are many here who have been around a while and would totally agree with what im saying. it doesn't mean im right and if you have positive results then, by all means please stick with what u are doing
just don't be afraid of surface agitation. it is beneficial, it does help keep surface film down as well
as for cannister, sunsun makes a great one on ebay for a really good price. i have one myself and think its great. very quiet
how is ur circulation? lower circulation increases pearling? while higher circulation dissolves the o2 in the water column more regularly. my plants look like bubble stalks if i turn my koralia off..
ur probably ok with oxygen levels but i play it safe, and there are many here who have been around a while and would totally agree with what im saying. it doesn't mean im right and if you have positive results then, by all means please stick with what u are doing
just don't be afraid of surface agitation. it is beneficial, it does help keep surface film down as well
as for cannister, sunsun makes a great one on ebay for a really good price. i have one myself and think its great. very quiet
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well i could easily run a small amount of oxygen into the tank during the day
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FYI... bubble stones don't increase oxygen by the bubbles. they don't dissolve well and they rise very fast... the agitation they cause at the surface is where u get it
it all has to do with pressure
it all has to do with pressure
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Doesnt sound intirley true to me, if the oxygen is desolving into the tank by coming into contact with the air at the surface i dont see how it makes a difference when its coming in the form of bubbles into the tank.
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I not a firm beleiver in that theory either. I agree that surface agitation is best because it serves more than one purpose. BUT, the bubbles breaking at the surface is in fact surface agitation AND, if an air stone doesnt dissolve O2 into the water then how come a diffuser will dissolve Co2 into the water?
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I agree that surface agitation is the BEST way to intro duce oxygen Im just saying its not the ONLY way to introduce it. And Chad has a great point about the co2
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because c02 dissolves 20 times more readily than oxygen
AND YES you will get a little oxygen from each bubble. but the amount is negligible
AND YES you will get a little oxygen from each bubble. but the amount is negligible
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test it urself.
grab one bubble in a reaction chamber and see how long it takes to dissolve
or that not being possible put a fien pore bubble stone at the front glass and point a powerhead at it.. pick a bubble that gets caught and stays in the current see how much smaller it gets over the next 5-10 seconds.. then compare that to c02
grab one bubble in a reaction chamber and see how long it takes to dissolve
or that not being possible put a fien pore bubble stone at the front glass and point a powerhead at it.. pick a bubble that gets caught and stays in the current see how much smaller it gets over the next 5-10 seconds.. then compare that to c02
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Some O2 will dissolve from the bubbles, however the surface agitation and more importantly the continuous and rapid water turnover from the surface into the water column will be the vast majority of any oxygenation that occurs. The surface agitation is a good indicator of that turnover. CO2 is cheap and it won't cost much to double or even triple the bubble rate to compensate for any additional losses. Even if you have a low tech non CO2 tank, rapid surface water turnover will grab more airborne CO2 for your plants.
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Well thanks for all the info, I haven't taken chemistry yet so mebe that might explain something
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In simple terms, more surface area equals more diffusion. A certain amount of air split into larger bubbles has less total surface area than that same amount of air split into smaller bubbles. You can do the math involving surface area of a sphere if you'd like. Or you can trust me - I did do the math
In addition, the longer there's contact between air and water, the more diffusion will take place. Because of this, larger bubbles, which travel to the surface faster, will diffuse less air into the water than smaller bubbles that hang around in the tank. This is also the reason that some people (like me) place diffusers in front of a powerhead or under the outflow from a HOB to blow the bubbles around for a while, rather than allowing them to travel directly to the surface.
Because airstones don't create very small bubbles, they're not very effective in terms of diffusion. Atomic-style diffusers, which create very small bubbles, are far more effective. But they do create surface agitation, though this is more effective in smaller tanks (because of the smaller volume and surface area) or with multiple airstones.
Hope this clears some stuff up
In addition, the longer there's contact between air and water, the more diffusion will take place. Because of this, larger bubbles, which travel to the surface faster, will diffuse less air into the water than smaller bubbles that hang around in the tank. This is also the reason that some people (like me) place diffusers in front of a powerhead or under the outflow from a HOB to blow the bubbles around for a while, rather than allowing them to travel directly to the surface.
Because airstones don't create very small bubbles, they're not very effective in terms of diffusion. Atomic-style diffusers, which create very small bubbles, are far more effective. But they do create surface agitation, though this is more effective in smaller tanks (because of the smaller volume and surface area) or with multiple airstones.
Hope this clears some stuff up
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