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Here's the scenario: I decided to do a test today out of curiosity ( I have done one on last Wed. but decided to do again because of the results I got). I've been doing EI dosing for the past week (1/2tsp-KNO3,1/8-KH2PO4&K2SO4 after 50% water change on Sunday then Tues & Thurs. CSM&B every MWF. Off day on Sat.) I have my light cut to 130W for 9hrs. since cutting down from 260W @ 8hours. Here are the results: NO3 @ 80PPM:eek: & PO4 @ 5PPM:eek:. And to make sure I tested again & same result. I also tested the tap water NO3 @ 5PPM & PO4 @ .5PPM. What am i doing wrong? Should I up my light back to 260W to help the plant eat all the extra PO4 & NO3? Or should I put more plants that are not root feeder as I have plenty of now? Pls. help I'm really @ a lost @ what to do:confused: ? Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
First test the test kit.

Second test the test kit.

Now test the tank making sure to correctly use the test kit.
OK. How do I test the test kit???:confused:
 

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You need to make a solution that has a known amount of the nutrient. Then see if the test kit reflects that amount.
 

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OK. How do I test the test kit???:confused:
How to Make NO3 and PO4 Reference Solutions

Here's a way to make 10, 20, 30 and 40 ppm NO3 reference solutions:

Add 1.631 g of KNO3 to 1 L DI/RO water. This makes a 1000 ppm NO3 solution. (It's really a 1000.29 ppm solution.)

Add 2 mL of the 1000 ppm solution to 18 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 20 mL of a 100 ppm NO3 solution.

Add 15 mL of the 100 ppm solution to 15 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 30 mL of a 50 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 10 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 2 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 8 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 10 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 20 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 4 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 6 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 20 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 30 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 6 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 4 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 30 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 40 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 8 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 2 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 40 ppm NO3 solution.




Here's a way to make 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ppm PO4 reference solutions:

Add 1.433 g of KH2PO4 to 1 L DI/RO water. This makes a 1000 ppm PO4 solution. (It's really a 1000.09 ppm solution.)

Add 1 mL of the 1000 ppm solution to 9 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 100 ppm PO4 solution.

Add 2 mL of the 100 ppm solution to 18 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 20 mL of a 10 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 1.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 1 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 9 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 1.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 2.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 2 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 8 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 2.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 3.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 3 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 7 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 3.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 4.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 4 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 6 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 4.0
ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 5.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 5 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 5 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 5.0 ppm PO4 solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Making Reference NO3 and PO4 Solutions

Here's a way to make 10, 20, 30 and 40 ppm NO3 reference solutions:

Add 1.631 g of KNO3 to 1 L DI/RO water. This makes a 1000 ppm NO3 solution. (It's really a 1000.29 ppm solution.)

Add 2 mL of the 1000 ppm solution to 18 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 20 mL of a 100 ppm NO3 solution.

Add 15 mL of the 100 ppm solution to 15 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 30 mL of a 50 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 10 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 2 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 8 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 10 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 20 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 4 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 6 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 20 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 30 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 6 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 4 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 30 ppm NO3 solution.

To make a 40 ppm NO3 solution:
Add 8 mL of the 50 ppm solution to 2 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 40 ppm NO3 solution.




Here's a way to make 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 ppm PO4 reference solutions:

Add 1.433 g of KH2PO4 to 1 L DI/RO water. This makes a 1000 ppm PO4 solution. (It's really a 1000.09 ppm solution.)

Add 1 mL of the 1000 ppm solution to 9 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 100 ppm PO4 solution.

Add 2 mL of the 100 ppm solution to 18 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 20 mL of a 10 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 1.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 1 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 9 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 1.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 2.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 2 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 8 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 2.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 3.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 3 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 7 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 3.0 ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 4.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 4 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 6 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 4.0
ppm PO4 solution.

To make a 5.0 ppm PO4 solution:
Add 5 mL of the 10 ppm solution to 5 mL of DI/RO water. This makes 10 mL of a 5.0 ppm PO4 solution.
Thanks for being more precise on how to do the test but I do not use DI/RO water. Can I do this w/ Tap Water? I'm really bad at math can you do this w/ tsp? I just did a 50% waterchange today @ 7PM w/o adding any Macro. I will test @ 9PM to see what the test will say. If in case the test kit comes out ok. What do you think the problem could be (fert schedule?, Lighting? or more plants?). Thanks.
 

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Thanks for being more precise on how to do the test...
Sure. You're welcome. It's not a test. It's how to make reference solutions.

In this case, these reference solutions are for checking how accurate your test kit is. You need pure water and accurate measuring devices to make these reference solutions.

but I do not use DI/RO water. Can I do this w/ Tap Water?
No. Tap water contains contaminates. You need DI/RO or pure water to make reference solutions in this case.

I'm really bad at math...
The math is already done. All you do is follow the directions.

...can you do this w/ tsp?...
No. A teaspoon isn't accurate enough. You need accurate scales to measure your solute and graduated cylinders to measure your solutions.
 

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LeftC: Can I ROAD (rip off and display) that info into my Guide?
Sure Rex, you're welcome to use it.

I'm glad that I took a lab math course a few years ago. It came in handy figuring these dilutions.

I forgot to mention this. I have this same reference solutions in a spreadsheet version using Microsoft ExceL. If you have Excel, I'll send it to you via email. Just let me know.
 

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"Pure Water"=Distilled Water from the store.....:eek:
Straight R/O is close enough. You're hanging about 95% pure there. I'm not sure why you couldn't use tapwater. It will throw off results by up to around 5ppm. No big deal.

In fact, why worry about excess PO4? It really doesn't harm anything. I usually run over 5ppm (tapwater and ferts), and the "recommended" dose used to be around 1-2.
 

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Straight R/O is close enough. You're hanging about 95% pure there. I'm not sure why you couldn't use tap water. It will throw off results by up to around 5ppm. No big deal.
Mr. B, I think that you may of missed something.

Naja misquoted me.



This is obet's question and my answer:
but I do not use DI/RO water. Can I do this w/ Tap Water?
Left C said:
No. Tap water contains contaminates. You need DI/RO or pure water to make reference solutions in this case.
Naja's response.
"Pure Water"=Distilled Water from the store.....:eek:
I was making it simple and using simple terms for obet_07304. I think that this person really doesn't understand what reference solutions really are. I did say DI/RO water like I used many times in the above post about how to make up those various reference solutions.




In fact, why worry about excess PO4? It really doesn't harm anything. I usually run over 5ppm (tap water and ferts), and the "recommended" dose used to be around 1-2.
After I wrote up the nitrate reference solution section; I decided to go ahead and write up a phosphate reference solution section as well.

It's up to you if you want to make or use any of these reference solutions.
 

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"Pure Water"=Distilled Water from the store..... :eek:
You got Mr. B going by misquoting me.:icon_bigg

I took it that you were helping to explain to obet that pure water is the same thing as distilled water.;)



This is obet's question and my answer:
but I do not use DI/RO water. Can I do this w/ Tap Water?
Left C said:
No. Tap water contains contaminates. You need DI/RO or pure water to make reference solutions in this case.
Naja's response.
"Pure Water"=Distilled Water from the store.....:eek:


I was using simple terms for obet_07304. Did you follow what obet_07304 was asking? obet_07304 wanted to use measuring spoons and tap water water for making these reference solutions........:eek: :icon_bigg
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I was using simple terms for obet_07304. Did you follow what obet_07304 was asking? obet_07304 wanted to use measuring spoons and tap water water for making these reference solutions........:eek: :icon_bigg
Im sorry if Im a bit naive. I've been using meas. spoon to dose my dry ferts & I dont have a scale & graduated cylinders available. I think there is a way to convert tsp to G. I just don't remember where I saw this conversion. Sorry, again.
 

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I'm sorry if I'm a bit naive. I've been using meas. spoon to dose my dry ferts & I don't have a scale & graduated cylinders available. I think there is a way to convert tsp to G. I just don't remember where I saw this conversion. Sorry, again.
Hi obet

Using measuring spoons for dosing is fine, but it isn't precise. I dose my tanks with spoons too.

I think that you are missing the point that everyone was making about testing your test kits. Many of the cheaper test kits are inaccurate. I just wrote up a procedure about how to make various reference solutions.

Reference solutions are about precision. You want precise amounts when you make reference solutions. That means weighing out the solute on very good scales and using very good instruments to measure your solutions.

You are wanting precise solutions to tell how accurate that your test kit is.

Seachem's Nitrite/Nitrate test kit comes with a 10 ppm Nitrate reference solution to test the test kit.

Seachem Phosphate test kit also comes with a reference solution. It's a 1 ppm reference solution to check to see how accurate the test kit is.

You want correct and valid results from your test kits so that you can make a correct decision about what to do. Checking the validity of your test kits is one of the ways to do this.
 

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Just pointing out that since obet doesn't do RODI--they can get "pure water" from the store by buying distilled. Lots of folks have no clue what the differences are between "Spring Water", "Distilled", "RO", "DI", "RODI", Tap or Toilet. For $1, obet, you can pick up a gal of distilled water at the store for Your "Pure Water".


HTH
 

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Just pointing out that since obet doesn't do RODI--they can get "pure water" from the store by buying distilled. Lots of folks have no clue what the differences are between "Spring Water", "Distilled", "RO", "DI", "RODI", Tap or Toilet. For $1, obet, you can pick up a gal of distilled water at the store for Your "Pure Water".


HTH
I was sure that's exactly what you meant.

It threw Mr. B a curve ball though, I believe. :icon_lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK. Thanks, guys. I will go to the store tomm. to buy some Distilled Water. Should I continue w/ my dosing? Or should I wait till I do the test? Thanks again.
 

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OK. Thanks, guys. I will go to the store tomm. to buy some Distilled Water...
Hi obet

Do you have scales that can measure to 3 decimal places and graduated cylinders? You need these along with DI/RO water to make the reference solutions. If you don't, you don't need the distilled water.

Obet, you still have me puzzled. I have to ask this, sorry. Do you think that these reference solutions are about how much that you need to dose in your aquarium or do you understand that these solutions are for testing the accuracy of your test kits?

Should I continue w/ my dosing? Or should I wait till I do the test?
I'm sorry, but I haven't tried to answer your questions about dosing or the results of your tests. There were several guys that mentioned that your test kits may be at fault and suggested testing your test kits. That's where the directions for making reference solutions came in.

I can't help you with your EI dosing questions as well as some of the more experienced folks can. If it's OK, I'll ask you some questions and hopefully some of the more experienced people will jump in.

-Did you do a water change this past Sunday? Your initial questions make me ask this. If I'm reading it correctly, you didn't.
-How heavy is your tank planted? You only list a few plants.
-Why did you cut your lights back from 8 hrs @ 260w to 9 hrs @ 130w?
-Are you having problems?
-You've only been dosing EI for a little over a week now, right?
-What were you dosing B/4 EI?
-Do you always do weekly 50%?
-What brand/type of nitrate and phosphate test kits do you have?
-Have you been testing regularly and these tests are abnormally high?

Thanks again.
You're welcome, but I don't think that I helped you.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hi obet

Do you have scales that can measure to 3 decimal places and graduated cylinders? You need these along with DI/RO water to make the reference solutions. If you don't, you don't need the distilled water.
I will look in ebay if I can buy this or is there a website you can suggest.

Obet, you still have me puzzled. I have to ask this, sorry. Do you think that these reference solutions are about how much that you need to dose in your aquarium or do you understand that these solutions are for testing the accuracy of your test kits?
I do understand that these solutions are for testing the accuracy of the test kit.

I'm sorry, but I haven't tried to answer your questions about dosing or the results of your tests. There were several guys that mentioned that your test kits may be at fault and suggested testing your test kits. That's where the directions for making reference solutions came in.

I can't help you with your EI dosing questions as well as some of the more experienced folks can. If it's OK, I'll ask you some questions and hopefully some of the more experienced people will jump in.

-Did you do a water change this past Sunday? Your initial questions make me ask this. If I'm reading it correctly, you didn't..
I did do a 50% water change this past Sunday.

How heavy is your tank planted? You only list a few plants.
I have about 14 Amazon swords (9 about 14" high) 3 different Java Fern attached to driftwood, Anubias Nana (more than 10 leaves) attached to the rock & a few Brazilian Pennyworth (just dumped alot last Sunday)

-Why did you cut your lights back from 8 hrs @ 260w to 9 hrs @ 130w?
From the suggestion of somebody that too much light causes more algae.

-Are you having problems?
The reason I cut down my lighting was because I've been having black spots mostly on my Amazon & Anubias Leaf, can't even rub it off. And a little GSA as well.

-You've only been dosing EI for a little over a week now, right?
I've been doing EI since Aug. 2006 but haven't been dosing KNO3 thinking my fish poops would be enough to supply the NO3. I just recently found out from somebody here that Fish Poop aren't enough to provide NO3 to the plants hence the algae growth.

-What were you dosing B/4 EI?
I was dosing only Excel & Flourish or Leaf Zone once in while. This was before I went Pressurised w/ the CO2.

-Do you always do weekly 50%?
To be honest, I've been doing weekly water change since I started this fantastic hobby but only w/in a few months I've been doing 50%.

-What brand/type of nitrate and phosphate test kits do you have?
I have Aqua Pharm for the NO3 & Nutrafin for the PO4.

-Have you been testing regularly and these tests are abnormally high?
I used to test regularly when I first started but since I'm always getting 0 to 20PPM NO3 & 1PPM on the PO4 I decided I don't need to. Bad mistake on my part, right? Everything is growing fine & fishes are all healthy as I can tell.


You're welcome, but I don't think that I helped you.
Believe me Left C you did.
 
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