HELP! Victor VTS450d leaking from pressure relief valve

27052 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by jeffkrol, Mar 9, 2014

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · Mar 6, 2014

Hi,
so recently I got a used Victor VTS450D dual stage regulator off flebay and set it all up. On the first tank of CO2, everything seems like it was working fine for about 2 weeks. Then after that one day I noticed my CO2 tank was almost empty. At the time I thought maybe I had some leak issues in the hoses and corrected it.
Then I got my second tank of CO2 and upon connecting it and opening the tank, I can hear gas escaping some where on the regulator. After looking at it closely, I'm sure the leak is coming from the pressure relief valve. I took it apart and looks like its just a spring loaded piston that presses against an o-ring. I tried cleaning everything and putting it back together but I can still hear it leaking gas. So I guess I have 2 questions.
1) anyone know the part number of the pressure relief valve?
2) Is it worth trying to fix or should I just go and get another regulator?

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

exv152

· #2 · Mar 6, 2014

It might just be that the relief valve is faulty. I know they're set to go off when the intenal pressure reaches a set psi, for safety purposes. Not sure how easy it would be to replace, or if it's recommendable to open the unit, never had to deal with that myself.

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 6, 2014 (Edited by Moderator)

hm. I just noticed something else. The regulator was set up for oxygen previously and the relief valve has the words "Relief Do Not Alter 400".
Does that mean the valve is set up for 400psi and it'll bleed off pressure until it is at or below 400 psi?
Can I just take the valve off and plug the hole?

Well this is embarassing. I just tested it again. looks like the issue is the pressure relief valve is set at 400 psi. If I open the tank, as soon as the gas starts flowing the relief valve starts leaking. If I then turn off the tank, I can see the pressure bleeds to 400psi and holds.
So anyone know where I can get a relief valve that is set at 1000psi or something?
Or can I just remove the damn thing and plug the hole?

goneRogue

· #4 · Mar 6, 2014

I wouldn't remove the pressure relief valve entirely. The other question is whether that reg can handle higher pressures. I'd start by looking at the manual for that reg, which should be available for download on the victor website.

Seattle_Aquarist

· #5 · Mar 6, 2014

Hi pwu_1,

If it were me, I would contact Victor Technologies customer service and ask if the pressure relief valve can be changed to handle CO2, and if so what parts are needed and how. I would never run a cylinder of pressurized gas without a relief valve.

Victor Technologies - located in St. Louis, MO

U.S. Customer Care
Tel: 800-426-1888
Fax: 800-535-0557
[email protected]

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 6, 2014 (Edited by Moderator)

Ok just looked up the manual for the victor regulator. The relief valve has a 400 pound spring. But I guess I'm not understanding how this regulator can work for CO2 if the relief valve opens at 400 psi? On a full tank my pressure is at 700-800 psi?
I just tested it again and the relief valve seems to be tied to the input side. As soon as the input pressure goes over 400psi on the gauge the relief valve starts hissing. Then when I turn the tank off the relief valve stops hissing at 400 psi.
Anyone can explain to me what is going on? Oldpunk? bettail? help?

hm. used the search function and someone else had the same issue. Looks like the regulator needs to be rebuilt as something is wrong internally.
Oh well, time to shop for another regulator

oldpunk78

· #7 · Mar 6, 2014

pwu_1 said:
hm. used the search function and someone else had the same issue. Looks like the regulator needs to be rebuilt as something is wrong internally.
Oh well, time to shop for another regulator

It's probably the 1st stage is blown. Letting the full psi of the cylinder reach the inner stage between the 1st and second. Or, it's just a bad relief valve.

Bettatail

· #8 · Mar 6, 2014

oldpunk78 said:
It's probably the 1st stage is blown. Letting the full psi of the cylinder reach the inner stage between the 1st and second. .

Josh nails it.

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 6, 2014

Thanks for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense.
I guess I'm in the market for another regulator.
Looking at a Concoa 109 series dual stage regulator now

goneRogue

· #10 · Mar 7, 2014

If it's the one that's ~$95 on ebay right now save your money. You can find something much better for much less.

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 7, 2014

That one is a single stage. The one I'm picking up is the dual stage version. Got it for $65 but the main thing is the guy is local to me so I'm going to meet with him tomorrow to get it. This way I won't have to wait for shipping.

What I did today was open the tank valve and shut it off real quick, watch my regulator bleed the high pressure to 400psi, then wait until the output pressure bleeds off the rest of it and repeat.
Its ok for today and tomorrow since I work from home and I sit right in front of my tank but ideally I would like to get the new regulator installed before the weekend.

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 7, 2014

Heard back from Victor customer support today. Oldpunk is right.
Most likely issue is first stage seat assembly went bad and needs to be replaced.

Anyone know how much it would cost to get the regulator rebuilt? I'd keep it as a backup. Or would it be cheaper to just junk it and look for another regulator as backup?

jeffkrol

· #13 · Mar 7, 2014

pwu_1 said:
Heard back from Victor customer support today. Oldpunk is right.
Most likely issue is first stage seat assembly went bad and needs to be replaced.

Anyone know how much it would cost to get the regulator rebuilt? I'd keep it as a backup. Or would it be cheaper to just junk it and look for another regulator as backup?

IF your going to send it out, you MOST LIKELY willl pay more than a flea bay purchase..
Doesn''t seem too difficult to rebuild though..
That said it is the "specialty" tools that could be probematic
http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Up...654 VGT 450 and VGS 450 Series Regulators.pdf

AlanLe

· #14 · Mar 7, 2014

jeffkrol said:
IF your going to send it out, you MOST LIKELY willl pay more than a flea bay purchase..
Doesn''t seem too difficult to rebuild though..
That said it is the "specialty" tools that could be probematic
http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Up...654 VGT 450 and VGS 450 Series Regulators.pdf

You're gonna need one hell of a vise and a wrench to crack that thing apart!!!!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

JeffE

· #15 · Mar 8, 2014

My local praxair wanted 79$ to rebuild a victor vts253. It has the first stage blown probably and does the same thing.

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 8, 2014

Yeah that's probably not worth it. I picked up a concoa dual stage for $65 today. I will probably just keep looking on fleabay for a back up

jeffkrol

· #17 · Mar 9, 2014

pwu_1 said:
Yeah that's probably not worth it. I picked up a concoa dual stage for $65 today. I will probably just keep looking on fleabay for a back up

Parts are relatively cheap.. What I'm a bit confused about is that the relief valve should be on the lp side and not be like 400#
I seem to be missing something here..
http://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/as...fCode = '751' ORDER BY number LIMIT 1000,200

http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Up...ervice and Testing Procedures - Single an.pdf

pwu_1

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 9, 2014

I believe the relief valve on the victor dual stage is between stage 1 and stage 2. Stage 1 is supposed to drop the pressure to 400 psi and then stage 2 lowers it to whatever pressure you set it at. Since the first stage is blown, it is sending all of the pressure(800 psi) to stage 2 and that is why the pressure relief valve is bleeding off the pressure

jeffkrol

· #19 · Mar 9, 2014 (Edited by Moderator)

pwu_1 said:
I believe the relief valve on the victor dual stage is between stage 1 and stage 2. Stage 1 is supposed to drop the pressure to 400 psi and then stage 2 lowers it to whatever pressure you set it at. Since the first stage is blown, it is sending all of the pressure to stage 2 and that is why the pressure relief valve is bleeding off the pressure

Well the way I see it it is the high pressure side sets the high pressure..

I'd think the LP side failed.. It is the one regulating what the safety valve sees..........

Sorry just a need to understand basis..

According to this: There are 2 which I don't see either..

Two stage regulators have two safety valves

so my take from this thread and this one:
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?59673-oxygen-regulator-problem

Is the Victor only has a HP relief valve...... Hmmmm...

How about this:

Don't buy any of that, just take the relief valve off and buy a 1/4" NPT plug for $2 and put that in instead. You don't need a relief valve....

Exactly. I am not trying to be arrogant, for the record you brought it up, but I build and sell these and know a lot about them. They are not needed, and furthermore, I would definitely be concerned about a liability, that goes to show that it is not a liability.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1442496

Point seems to be is that the hp stage is not limiting intake to under 500 psi.. Most CO2 tanks if I remember correctly are '"natively" 800psi or so, though when "heated" can go much higher but I'm not sure it would get to burst strength of the tank....besides the tank valves have their own relief valve.

So it seems like, yes 1st stage is not regulating..second stage is.. Plugging the safety valve could be "ok".. Finding one that is 800psi could be ok too.. (800 psi bUT the highest I found is 600# http://weldwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?::1:WLDWH:1:341=0600-0025)

Biggest catch is you now have a 1 stage regulator.........

Unscrewing the HP cap doesn't seem that problematic.. 1 9/16th or so wrench and a good vise..

considering all of the above.. The question arises "what if" the LP side fails?..
There is nothing stopping 500# from going into the CO2 tubing ect...

No relief valve.. Seems "we" should be thinking about this.. especially for those doing in line or reactors.. Potential for catastrophic water leakage..

anyone else seeing this way?? Or an I off base somewhere?

YES I now see that it must be the HP side btw.. I was thinking the relief should be on the LP side, which it isn't..

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