The Planted Tank Forum banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I am fairly new to aquariums and I have a 20 Gallon Long planted community tank. Thank you everyone for your help!

I first got about 25 PFR's last Friday, 9/8/2017 and allowed about 3 hours for them to get acclimated to my water by slowing adding my water. Once they were in the tank, they were basically all swimming around and not even in a frantic way. As the days have gone by, I have found that around 5 of them have died, a couple look sluggish, and not nearly as many come out during the day... maybe around 10-12.

I've been looking online for what the problems might be, but I'm really not sure how to diagnose it. Today, I saw a shrimp with the white band across the middle which I have seen online is linked to molting problems. It wasn't dead though and I can't see anything molting-related in the other deaths. They look like they just keeled over and stopped moving :[

Here are the details of my tank:

I use API FW Master test kit and just got API test strips to do the GH/KH. I am getting the API FW GH/KH test kit tomorrow.

Temp Range: 76.8-78.2, normally in the high 77's
PH Tap: Very very high, like 8.4+, however that is right after it comes out
PH Tank: API Master - 7.4-7.8, API Test strip - 7
GH: ~120 (based on test strips, I'll update when i get the new test kit)
KH: ~40 (based on test strips, I'll update when i get the new test kit)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: API Master - 5 PPM, API Test strip - 40 (???)

Stocking: 5 Espei Rasboras, 2 Neon Tetras (I know there should be a group), 3 Dwarf Emerald Rasboras, a bunch of painted fire reds.

Decorations: One large “Dragon” Rock, 2 medium Seiryu stones, 1 large piece of driftwood, big clump of Java moss, a few java ferns, one potted lutea, and I'm trying to grow staurogyne repens.

Filter - Aquaclear 50 gallon with a sponge filter over the intake

Food - Flakes for fish, Top Fin algae thins for shrimp (I'm getting the Shirakura Ebi Dama tomorrow)

Ferts - Seachem Flourish (not excel) which I do less than half the recommended dosage once a week.

:help::help::help::help:

Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,297 Posts
Seiryu stones can change your water parameters.

Test strips are less reliable than the liquid test kits - as long as the liquid test kits are not out of date.

What are your tap water parameters?

Any idea what parameters the shrimp came from?

Or perhaps, do you know if they were home bred or imported shrimp?



Since the tank has fish in it, my best suggestion would be to set up a separate tank for the shrimp, and if you can get them thriving in there, then you could use them as the breeding tank to supply the main tank with shrimp, and if you are lucky enough, they'll thrive in there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,576 Posts
Fishes would not have to gobble shrimps up outright, but merely damage them by pecking at them, and causing injury which then might lead to death over time.
If they are being set upon by fishes,then this might be why they are not out and about as much.
They also tend to be secretive when molting.
Are you sure the dead ones were not simply molts that were cast off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
I had a big problem with my Emerald dwarf rasboras killing my cherry shrimp. They're little jerks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,325 Posts
How is your o2 level? If they are actually dying at night that is when o2 levels would be less due to plants also consuming o2. Do you have good surface movememt? Your not running co2 at night are you? Many times a power head or filter pointed at Watwe surface will help with the o2. Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
@zoidberg - What kind of effect do Seiryu stones have? They have been in the water, so it's probably stabilized.
About the test strips, I know they are pretty inaccurate which is why i got the new test kit from API for GH/KH. I'll update the GH/KH when I do the test.
My tap water parameters are like I said, but I'm not sure if they change after airing out - ~8.4PH, with test strips, the GH is 180+ ppm and KH is 80+ppm.
The shrimp are from Aquatic Arts. Thank you for the suggestion about getting another tank... If I can set it up, I'll probably get another 10G planted tank just for shrimp (That would be awesome).


@roadmaster - I know what you mean about the fish harassing the shrimp, but I have never seen them do it... Maybe they do that at night with the lights off...? I think that the shrimp mainly molt inside my driftwood which has a cool hollow area in it they hide in, so they are probably safe while molting.

@Kayakjim - good point about the emerald dwarf rasboras... they are beautiful fish and quite active. That being said, they stay away from the shrimp from what I've seen. Actually, at my LFS, they keep emerald dwarf rasboras with bloody mary shrimp and they do fine together.

@aotf - Good question... I've actually considered adding CO2 to help my plants grow, but I haven't done that... I also probably won't because I don't want to add another variable that could affect the shrimp or fish.

@clownplanted - Is there a way to check o2 levels? I've heard that at night while plants "sleep" it can affect the O2 levels. That being said, my power filter make a ton of bubbles so I think it's getting enough surface water movement.


@All - I've probably just answered your questions with lame reasons/excuses, but I really do appreciate your help in investigating this. I'll send a picture of my tank to see if that'll help at all... please don't make fun of it :)

I know the water level is quite low... I usually keep it higher.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Seiryu stones will often increase kH, sometimes by an incredible amount.

Without meaning to throw Aquatic Arts under the bus (I can't vouch for @Zoidburg :p), it's worth pointing out that they sell imported shrimp rather than home-bred. It's why they have such a good selection of fish, plants, and inverts at all times. That said, imports are often more fragile than home-bred. This can be exacerbated depending on when they received their shipment. It's not uncommon for imported shrimp to die off slowly over weeks/months. Regardless, you should keep looking for the answer in your tank. Shrimp can be finnicky!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,297 Posts
I'm going to point the issue to the fact that they are imported shrimp. Aquatic Arts I've heard has great customer service, however, they are well known for selling shrimp with parasites (some of which can be difficult to extinguish without also killing the shrimp in the process), and many of the shrimp they sell tend to be adults. Adults do not acclimate well to different water parameters as well as juveniles do. They are quite likely bred in Taiwan, shipped to the USA and placed in new water, then shipped to you. Being shipped twice, and having to change water parameters at least twice, they will not be happy shrimp. To top it all off, they are raised in Caridina parameters, and do not thrive well in Neocaridina parameters, despite the fact that they are Neos...

In short, you were doomed the moment you decided to purchase them.

I've heard that Aquatic Arts *IS* trying to 'fix' the issues with their supplier selling sick shrimp, but that doesn't change the other factors. Aquatic Arts isn't the only reseller of imported shrimp, either, but they are the most "famous" for 'Why are my [Neo] shrimp dying?'! The issue is is that there aren't any shrimp farms in the USA that can supply vendors with the amount of shrimp that are required for the market like Taiwan can, and as such, some of the big shrimp and fish people are having to outsource for shrimp as well. (Flip Aquatics and Rachel O'Leary also have to purchase imports to meet the demand)



I hate to say this, but I would consider what you have as a complete loss and see if you can get any deals or anything from Aquatic Arts for compensation. If you really want to keep shrimp, then set up a separate tank (preferably at least a 10 gallon tank and you can use air driven sponge filters) geared towards the shrimp you want to keep, then try to find local hobbyists who raise them. If that fails, then find a USA breeder, and there are plenty of them! I've met a few in person already (people with websites - some without - i.e. HanAquatics and BuyPetShrimp), and some of them have amazing shrimp!




www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters

Neos like sand and natural gravel (i.e. *NOT* Petco gravel - I don't know why...) and *possibly* tap water. (they don't like my tap... died in it...)

Caridinas prefer buffering substrate with RO/DI water remineralized with GH minerals. Unless you do it right and have extremely clean tap, these shrimp do not do well in tap water with sand.

Never mix buffering substrates (aka shrimp/plant substrates that lower pH) with tap water.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top