Help me decide on what type of creature to put in a tank I'm making.

How about a salamander? Can you still get those?

http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-salamander.html

Though I saw an aquarium with a bright blue frog that I thought was absolutely stunning!

OK, I think the blue frog I saw in someone's aquarium was the same as the ones here:

http://www.brianstropicals.com/ohio_dart_frogs.html

OK, I vote for dart frog too!

You can get tadpoles pretty cheap, the Green and black Dart frogs are pretty nice and easier to keep, they are small...........and feeding them might be a bit more labor than you are willing to do.

Red eyed Tree frogs are nice, large and photogentic.

You could still keep a small pool and have killifish etc with a small bog.

That would nice to add frogs, fish, shrimp, plants, etc all into one system and not have them eat one another.

A stream side system community.

Go out AND LOOK.
See what in the natural system, see if you can create what you see, or some sembelance of it.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I,personally would go with either dart frogs or tree frogs.
They like the hieghth.

turtles are WayYYY too big, they get over 1 ft in diameter, and,imo, have no bussiness in a confined space.
salamanders won't use much vertical space.

if you go wiht dart frogs, best to go with ONE species, as there are many problems associated with mixing, and don't mix different colors of the same species.

Dart aren't that hard to feed, IMO.
you have to get used to culturing flightless fruitflies, but IMO, it's easier than culturing or buying crickets for a treefrog.

They do like high humidity though.
i suggest dendro board for great info.

http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=88

Great link, gives some good examples. The only thing with aboreal frogs you have to worry about is cleaning their goo off the glass or acrylic since their body mucus tends to dirty the glass a little. I wold go with FBT as far as price and ease of keeping. I really like the Mudskipper idea though, you get the best of both worlds, a fish that acts like a frog...although salinity requirements might be a pain over time.

Salamanders or Newts are a good choice, they tend to be as easy as a frog to take care of. If you could fix a ledge by which to plant bromeliads and other ephilyptic plants then you could have an almost aquatic bottom, and could encorporate siren salamanders or axytols/axtols, even though they are aquatic they're still rather interesting, coupled with other frogs and you could be in business.

As far as tank set up, you could do a background of cork like most people, it allows for a natural look and gives you the ability to afix ephilyptic plants. Or you could create one from Styrofoam like many cichlid keepers do. Java moss would be a great plant to use in the water fall, it will grow emmersed as long as it is in a humid environment, so will anubis as long as it's ryzome says in the water (first hand experience with both). If you could find some nice Driftwood you could also make "vines" by using some creeping jew, fig or jenny plants. The fig works great, Pothos might be too big, it's leaves normally get about 6", I've already mentioned bromeliads several times and for good reason, they don't have complex roots. Their nutrients are derived from their leaves, so you can hot glue them to the background or driftwood. Scheferella does ok as long as it's roots can dry out periodically, but you might have to prune it occasionally....

Well there is a little bit of info, PM me if you wish to know a little more, I've kept a few Vivariums and Paludariums in my experience...

Kevin

Again thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm about 50% done making the tank from scratch. I'll post some pics soon. I still have not set on a creature theme for sure. I like the look of the dart frogs but the lack of any pet stores that sell them near by is a concern. There is a reptile "show" Sunday Dec 3rd at the Lake County fair grounds near me. I'm going to check that out to see if there are any breeders near by me.
I have found a couple places selling tree frogs but they all seem the same kind. I really want a couple levels of stuff.

Here are a couple questions?

I understand that when you have darts you should not have deep water. Does that mean more then 1" or no free standing water at all?
I want to have a water fall that will have at least 1 tier. I was thinking of a mini pond about ½" deep 5-6" above the main "pond" area. See sketch

Twistedream said:

One thing I think you might have over looked on your selection is Bombina Orientalis (Fire belly Toad, most lfs mix breeds) They are much more active then dart frogs, much easier to care for (within regards to locating suitable food and keeping your tank stable) and considerably cheaper then darts (on average darts run between 40-200+) FBT tend to run about 4 dollars apiece.

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firebellies use absolutely no vertical space IME.
they're pretty much aquatic, spending much of there time in the water, and are not as active as dart frogs at all.
i have both.
the FBT's are impossible to keep fed, as they eat like a trash compacter.
they take Flightless fruit flies, crickets, mealies, etc.
i feed mine about 300 ff every week, and a dozen crickets a week, along with any house flies i may find(my iguana room attracts them).

rerice
FBT's ussually go for about 6-7$ a peice in lfs.
good begginer PDF's go for 20-60$, depending on age,species,breeder,and lineage.
Once you get used to cuturing fruitflies, (takes about 2 minutes every weekend) it's very easy to feed PDF's. they eat about 30 or so ff's a peice.

patm said:

The one thing no one has mentioned about the darts is, opposite of many species, they are in fact more difficult to care for in bigger tanks. Now, I dont think you'd have too much of a problem with bigger species like D. leucomelas, D. tinctorius, D. Azeureus (sp?), or D. auratus. But your smaller thumbnails would definately be out of the question in 50 gallons, although they wouldn't utilize the floor space anyways.

-Pat

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I've found this, through research, to be completely false.

bigger species do better in bigger tanks,yes.
but, it's been proven that thumbnails and Pumillio do VERY well in large inclosures, often being extremely bold.

Alot of people don't even use 10 gallon tanks anymore for thumbs because they feel the frogs are cramp'd.

the thing to remember about thumns and pdfs in general, is do your research.
you'll have to locate any big,medium, and small cracks and gaps and seal them or screen them off, for darts and ff's can get out of small openings.

If you look into it and get some good basic knowledge, a small group of begginer thumbs such as Imitators or ventramaculatus would be awesome.
One thing about dart frogs, they're fairly easy to breed, and most thumbs do most,if not all, of the work themselves.

imagine looking around in your tank, when all of a sudden, out of a bromeliad, a tiny froglet hops out into the open!

I still disagree. As I said, your larger dendrobates would work fine. But even your main breeders in the hobby use mostly 15 or 20 gallon verts for breeding pairs or trios of most of your thumbs. A 50 gallon with a group of thumbs may be frustrating, especially for the beginner, because theres a good chance you dont see any of them unless you go with a pretty large group of frogs.

I paired imitators up in intermediately planted 10 verts, and rarely did I see them out in the open, or could I even see them at all. If you pumped that up to the scale of 50 gallons, good luck unless you have a huge group and maybe see one or two at a time. And I know frogs have different personalities, but when you're paying a minimum of $55 per thumbnail (exception be vents) I sure wanna see my investment and be able to make sure I know they're healthy and eating.

So sure, you give almost any animal more space and it's going to be happy, but you put reclusive frogs the size of dimes in a 50 gallon tank and you may never even see them.


But back to the main question, no, you don't want to mix and match species. It is best to stick with just one. In my experience, D. leucomelas uses a great deal of tankspace. They will use the ground as well as explore the mid sections of the tank if given the right background and plant cover. They're relatively bold, and mine are out constanly during the day hunting for flies.

-Pat