The Planted Tank Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To get it out of the way, here are my parameters/stats. This is after I changed the tank on Tuesday, having added fertilizer Monday. I add Thrive S every Monday and Friday. This tank has been established for ~2 years, without CO2, the light is on a ~8 hour cycle (finnex 24/7) but not at total capacity for more than 3 hours.

Inhabitants: Amano shrimp, otocinclus, African Dwarf Frogs, many snails

pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: the first time I did the test, it read ~30 ppm, but then I redid it and timed it more accurately and got almost ~0ppm
Phosphates: 0.5 ppm

I have also been dosing with NILOCG Aquatics Select Salts Monopotassium Phosphate as well as Seachem Potassium weekly (not for very long)

I want to note that my fertilizing varied in consistency for a week or so, which could be how some of my issues have developed, but I believe it has been happening since before this.

Issues:
  • Established plants have started to die back, such as my Bolbitus and Tiger Lilies
  • Certain "easy" plants randomly melted, such as some java ferns
  • I feel like even the low tech plants I buy tend to melt and just not love my tank
  • I battled GSA for a while but it kind of died back
  • There is some BBA on my dwarf sag
  • The biggest annoyance right now is that the manzanita wood has become increasingly unstable and toppled over, I'm wondering if anyone knows if wood has to be replaced after a certain amount of time? Some of the smaller branches fell off and I'm thinking I'm going to have to anchor it to a rock to keep it at the angle it was at previously (any ideas welcome)

Plant Terrestrial plant Wood Flowering plant Grass

Plant Purple Botany Vegetation Rectangle

Plant Leaf Flower Terrestrial plant Grass

Plant Botany Terrestrial plant Grass Reptile
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,403 Posts
To get it out of the way, here are my parameters/stats. This is after I changed the tank on Tuesday, having added fertilizer Monday. I add Thrive S every Monday and Friday. This tank has been established for ~2 years, without CO2, the light is on a ~8 hour cycle (finnex 24/7) but not at total capacity for more than 3 hours.

Inhabitants: Amano shrimp, otocinclus, African Dwarf Frogs, many snails

pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: the first time I did the test, it read ~30 ppm, but then I redid it and timed it more accurately and got almost ~0ppm
Phosphates: 0.5 ppm

I have also been dosing with NILOCG Aquatics Select Salts Monopotassium Phosphate as well as Seachem Potassium weekly (not for very long)

I want to note that my fertilizing varied in consistency for a week or so, which could be how some of my issues have developed, but I believe it has been happening since before this.

Issues:
  • Established plants have started to die back, such as my Bolbitus and Tiger Lilies
  • Certain "easy" plants randomly melted, such as some java ferns
  • I feel like even the low tech plants I buy tend to melt and just not love my tank
  • I battled GSA for a while but it kind of died back
  • There is some BBA on my dwarf sag
  • The biggest annoyance right now is that the manzanita wood has become increasingly unstable and toppled over, I'm wondering if anyone knows if wood has to be replaced after a certain amount of time? Some of the smaller branches fell off and I'm thinking I'm going to have to anchor it to a rock to keep it at the angle it was at previously (any ideas welcome)

View attachment 1045882
View attachment 1045885
View attachment 1045884
View attachment 1045883
I assume you are on tap water and city water as well? Just a guess but everything you are describing fits pretty perfectly with your tap water changing. If you don't have one, I'd invest in a gh/kh test kit and let us know the results.

Other possibilities is if you have a salt based water softener that you just started using or recently replenished. Plants and salt don't get along well so that could cause it as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I assume you are on tap water and city water as well? Just a guess but everything you are describing fits pretty perfectly with your tap water changing. If you don't have one, I'd invest in a gh/kh test kit and let us know the results.

Other possibilities is if you have a salt based water softener that you just started using or recently replenished. Plants and salt don't get along well so that could cause it as well.
I will certainly test it ASAP! Thank you

considering the fact that there are almost no nitrates in the water means that they don't have enough nutrients to feed on. I'd recommend using root tabs
I have done so in the past but it looks like I will be purchasing those again, or redoing some of the tank.

I assume you are on tap water and city water as well? Just a guess but everything you are describing fits pretty perfectly with your tap water changing. If you don't have one, I'd invest in a gh/kh test kit and let us know the results.

Other possibilities is if you have a salt based water softener that you just started using or recently replenished. Plants and salt don't get along well so that could cause it as well.
Alright so here are my results:

Tank water:
KH: 2, so about 35.8 ppm
GH: 5, so about 89.5 ppm

I mix my tap water with parts of RO water. I use 4.5 liters of tap with .5 liters of RO. I add water in 5-liter increments (I determined this a while ago trying to find a nice GH/KH value + pH, so it could probably use retesting if you think the values should be lower/etc)

Tap water:
KH: 7, so about 125.3 ppm
GH: 8, so about 143.2 ppm

This is using the API kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,854 Posts
To get it out of the way, here are my parameters/stats. This is after I changed the tank on Tuesday, having added fertilizer Monday. I add Thrive S every Monday and Friday. This tank has been established for ~2 years, without CO2, the light is on a ~8 hour cycle (finnex 24/7) but not at total capacity for more than 3 hours.

Inhabitants: Amano shrimp, otocinclus, African Dwarf Frogs, many snails

pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: the first time I did the test, it read ~30 ppm, but then I redid it and timed it more accurately and got almost ~0ppm
Phosphates: 0.5 ppm

I have also been dosing with NILOCG Aquatics Select Salts Monopotassium Phosphate as well as Seachem Potassium weekly (not for very long)

I want to note that my fertilizing varied in consistency for a week or so, which could be how some of my issues have developed, but I believe it has been happening since before this.

Issues:
  • Established plants have started to die back, such as my Bolbitus and Tiger Lilies
  • Certain "easy" plants randomly melted, such as some java ferns
  • I feel like even the low tech plants I buy tend to melt and just not love my tank
  • I battled GSA for a while but it kind of died back
  • There is some BBA on my dwarf sag
  • The biggest annoyance right now is that the manzanita wood has become increasingly unstable and toppled over, I'm wondering if anyone knows if wood has to be replaced after a certain amount of time? Some of the smaller branches fell off and I'm thinking I'm going to have to anchor it to a rock to keep it at the angle it was at previously (any ideas welcome)

View attachment 1045884
Hi @AwwShucks

Could you please provide me better pictures the the portion of the tank shown below? Specifically I would like to see the clump of Anubias (?) indicated by the arrow in the photo. Shots of the clump, a new leaf, and an older leaf would be the most helpful. -Roy
Plant Terrestrial plant Flower Grass Soil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi @AwwShucks

Could you please provide me better pictures the the portion of the tank shown below? Specifically I would like to see the clump of Anubias (?) indicated by the arrow in the photo. Shots of the clump, a new leaf, and an older leaf would be the most helpful. -Roy
View attachment 1046540
Hey so, I got some more plants (I know I know) and so the anubias moved a bit. I took a video that is hopefully a good view of the plants, LMK!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,854 Posts
Oh I think you misunderstood, my bad, but the video is linked in my above post! Here it is: Thank you
Hi @AwwShucks

The video didn't really do me much good. I could not determine if the interveinal chlorosis I saw on the picture with the arrow above was present on the newest leaves of the Anubias or not. I'm afraid I will need pictures (photos) of the newest and oldest leaves of the plant that has the arrow pointing at it to go any further. -Roy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi @AwwShucks

The video didn't really do me much good. I could not determine if the interveinal chlorosis I saw on the picture with the arrow above was present on the newest leaves of the Anubias or not. I'm afraid I will need pictures (photos) of the newest and oldest leaves of the plant that has the arrow pointing at it to go any further. -Roy
I apologize, will take better pics tomorrow morning.

Hi @AwwShucks

The video didn't really do me much good. I could not determine if the interveinal chlorosis I saw on the picture with the arrow above was present on the newest leaves of the Anubias or not. I'm afraid I will need pictures (photos) of the newest and oldest leaves of the plant that has the arrow pointing at it to go any further. -Roy
Here is a link to some photos, including some new Amazon sword that’s melting:
I tried to get a good photo of the main anubias, I had to trim off some similar looking leaves on the smaller one in the back. They have the same markings though (yellow circles).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,854 Posts
Here is a link to some photos, including some new Amazon sword that’s melting:
I tried to get a good photo of the main anubias, I had to trim off some similar looking leaves on the smaller one in the back. They have the same markings though (yellow circles).
Hi @AwwShucks

Ok, I have some idea as to what is going on. If you look at the photo below you will see your Anubias showing interveinal chlorosis in the older leaves. The new leaf (#1) comes in looking fairly 'normal' but as the leaves mature the area between the leaf veins lightens, leaving the veins dark (#2) and eventually necrosis (dead spots) occur (leaf below #2). This is cause by insufficient available magnesium (Mg).
Plant Leaf Terrestrial plant Houseplant Flowering plant


Some of the other pictures (thank you btw, they helped a lot) show leaf tip hooking (the Anubias below one with the arrows) I re-read your thread and I'm not sure exactly what your nitrate (NO3) level is, I believe the last number I saw was zero?

If this were my tank I would do three things; 1) Use regular tap water, yours is not bad at all 2) Pick up some Nilocg.com Thrive C which is for low tech tanks and has DTPA chelate iron for your pH and 3) pick up some Epsom Salt at your local drug store. Get the cheapest stuff on the shelf with no scents or additives. Do an initial dose to your tank of 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Then when you do your weekly water changes add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added. This will add about 6.6 ppm of magnesium to your water.

Do the above for one month. Do not watch existing leaves they will not change. Watch the new leaves as they emerge and mature. The new leaves should come in looking more healthy with better color. More importantly as the new leaves mature they should stay looking green and healthy with no interveinal chlorosis like the Anubias or yellowing like the Amazon leaves. Let us know how things progress, -Roy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi @AwwShucks

Ok, I have some idea as to what is going on. If you look at the photo below you will see your Anubias showing interveinal chlorosis in the older leaves. The new leaf (#1) comes in looking fairly 'normal' but as the leaves mature the area between the leaf veins lightens, leaving the veins dark (#2) and eventually necrosis (dead spots) occur (leaf below #2). This is cause by insufficient available magnesium (Mg).
View attachment 1046823

Some of the other pictures (thank you btw, they helped a lot) show leaf tip hooking (the Anubias below one with the arrows) I re-read your thread and I'm not sure exactly what your nitrate (NO3) level is, I believe the last number I saw was zero?

If this were my tank I would do three things; 1) Use regular tap water, yours is not bad at all 2) Pick up some Nilocg.com Thrive C which is for low tech tanks and has DTPA chelate iron for your pH and 3) pick up some Epsom Salt at your local drug store. Get the cheapest stuff on the shelf with no scents or additives. Do an initial dose to your tank of 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Then when you do your weekly water changes add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added. This will add about 6.6 ppm of magnesium to your water.

Do the above for one month. Do not watch existing leaves they will not change. Watch the new leaves as they emerge and mature. The new leaves should come in looking more healthy with better color. More importantly as the new leaves mature they should stay looking green and healthy with no interveinal chlorosis like the Anubias or yellowing like the Amazon leaves. Let us know how things progress, -Roy
Thank you so much! I just have a few follow-up questions, hope that is ok!
1) Some people have indicated harder water is worse for planted tanks, especially those without CO2 like mine. What is your opinion?

2) When you say Thrive C has DTPA for my pH, what do you mean, is my pH off?

3) I assume Epsom Salt is a cheaper alternative to buying aquarium-specific salts from like Nilocg or something? Just curious! I am going to have to double-check it will be okay for the frogs, but I am sure I can find something similar to add magnesium. Why do you suggest 6.6 ppm?

Again, thank you so much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,854 Posts
Thank you so much! I just have a few follow-up questions, hope that is ok!
1) Some people have indicated harder water is worse for planted tanks, especially those without CO2 like mine. What is your opinion?

2) When you say Thrive C has DTPA for my pH, what do you mean, is my pH off?

3) I assume Epsom Salt is a cheaper alternative to buying aquarium-specific salts from like Nilocg or something? Just curious! I am going to have to double-check it will be okay for the frogs, but I am sure I can find something similar to add magnesium. Why do you suggest 6.6 ppm?

Again, thank you so much!
Hi @AwwShucks

Questions are how I learned, ask questions!

1) Excessively hard water (high dGH) can inhibit growth for some species as can (in my case) excessive soft (low dGH) water but there are some species that have evolved over the centuries and actually need hard water to growth their best. When I set up a tank I pick the fish I want to keep, determine the water parameters that will keep the fish healthy, then pick plants that do well with those parameters. Your water is just fine for the majority of plant species we use in our tanks.

2) There is nothing wrong with a pH of 7.0 (aka neutral). What is wrong is some of the types iron that manufacturers put into their fertilizers. EDTA chelated iron is the least expensive and used the most often, unfortunately as the pH of a tank increases from [email protected] the availability of EDTA chelated drops. By the time the pH of a tank reaches 7.0 only 10% of the ETDA iron is available to the plants. By pH 7.5 only about 3% of the EDTA iron is available to the plants. DTPA chelated iron if fully available to plants to a pH of 7.0 and then starts to drop off and the pH increases. See chart.
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern


3) Epsom Salt is magnesium sulfate (MgSO4*7H2O), exactly the same as is sold by the fertilizer supply houses. Remember to get the cheapest Epsom Salt with no scents or additives, $1.18 a pound at Walmart or $5.86 for 8#, $4.99 for 6# at Walgreens.....the cheap stuff.

Hope this helps! -Roy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Hi @AwwShucks

Questions are how I learned, ask questions!

1) Excessively hard water (high dGH) can inhibit growth for some species as can (in my case) excessive soft (low dGH) water but there are some species that have evolved over the centuries and actually need hard water to growth their best. When I set up a tank I pick the fish I want to keep, determine the water parameters that will keep the fish healthy, then pick plants that do well with those parameters. Your water is just fine for the majority of plant species we use in our tanks.

2) There is nothing wrong with a pH of 7.0 (aka neutral). What is wrong is some of the types iron that manufacturers put into their fertilizers. EDTA chelated iron is the least expensive and used the most often, unfortunately as the pH of a tank increases from [email protected] the availability of EDTA chelated drops. By the time the pH of a tank reaches 7.0 only 10% of the ETDA iron is available to the plants. By pH 7.5 only about 3% of the EDTA iron is available to the plants. DTPA chelated iron if fully available to plants to a pH of 7.0 and then starts to drop off and the pH increases. See chart.
View attachment 1046830

3) Epsom Salt is magnesium sulfate (MgSO4*7H2O), exactly the same as is sold by the fertilizer supply houses. Remember to get the cheapest Epsom Salt with no scents or additives, $1.18 a pound at Walmart or $5.86 for 8#, $4.99 for 6# at Walgreens.....the cheap stuff.

Hope this helps! -Roy
Thank you for being so helpful and sweet, I will update y'all as I implement these suggestions! You are super cool!

EDIT: I currently use Thrive S which has the DTPA iron, would that be acceptable to keep using or does C have more? I also see they have a stand-alone iron supplement. Any additional information on dosing would be helpful too unless I should just follow the instructions on the bottle for the fertilizer. I saw your earlier suggestion for the salts.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top