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Discussion Starter #1
hi all

just wanted to ask if anyone is using or has used a under gravel heater ? I have a 215ltr tank with 2 anubias on driftwood and 2 amazon swords am looking at adding some type of crypts soon ! any info is appreciated cheers DG :D
 

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I personally use both. My substrate heater has suction cups to attach the heating elements. In addition, I use a stainless steel submersible heater. It has suction cups, and I attach it to the back wall of the fish tank. My amazon sword plants' long root system entangles the substrate heater elements. I would not recommend the substrate heater.
P.S. I visited Perth, Aus....had a wonderful time there!:D
 

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In theory, a substrate heater can keep a tank warm on fewer watts of electricity. Haven't used one myself, so can't say if this is true or not. Also, it won't be affected by water changes, because even if you changed 90% of your water, the heating element would still be submerged. From a visual standpoint, it is concealed, so could make for an attractive look.
However, it doesn't sound like a good idea in a planted tank.
 

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In theory, a substrate heater can keep a tank warm on fewer watts of electricity. Haven't used one myself, so can't say if this is true or not. Also, it won't be affected by water changes, because even if you changed 90% of your water, the heating element would still be submerged. From a visual standpoint, it is concealed, so could make for an attractive look.
However, it doesn't sound like a good idea in a planted tank.
Substrate heaters aren't designed to heat the tank (and I've been told they can't in most cases, that the wattage is much too low?), they're designed to theoretically promote plant growth through keeping convection currents going through the substrate, stimulating the roots.
 

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Don't roots add O2 and create all the current that they require anyway?
How do they live in natural systems?
Are there heat cables in the Evergaldes?
In The Pantanal? The Ovakango??

How do plants manage?
Where is the evidence that suggest cables help aquatic plant roots in any research article anywhere?(I've asked this for that last 20 years, never one answer).

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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Don't roots add O2 and create all the current that they require anyway?
How do they live in natural systems?
Are there heat cables in the Evergaldes?
In The Pantanal? The Ovakango??

How do plants manage?
Where is the evidence that suggest cables help aquatic plant roots in any research article anywhere?(I've asked this for that last 20 years, never one answer).

Regards,
Tom Barr
Yeah, the aliens put them there to keep their larvae warm, which are implanted into the mud to protect them until they have time to metamorphose into adult aliens.
 

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In nature, the beds of shallow streams and rivers are warmer than the water.
And, as far as I know, they don't have Excel in streams.

We do lots of things in aquariums that don't exist in the wild. The fact that it doesn't exist in nature isn't a good reason not to do it. Having said that, it is my perception that there is consensus that there is not anything to be gained by heater cables. If Tom Barr used them, we all would too.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
hi all thankyou for the replies looks like the consesus is there is no major benifit since my tank is a low light tank and im not going to heavily plant it might just see how my plants go without it atm !! cheers DG
 

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In nature, the beds of shallow streams and rivers are warmer than the water.
So why is it when I put my feet into the sand/gravel, mud, the temperature is warmer than the water?

You claim the temp is warmer below the sand like with cables, not at the surface(and this is only true during the day due to solar radiation).

Where aquatic plants exists and have been there for long time frames, the temps tend to be equal. Where plants are seasonal, the temps tend to be warmer only at the surface if it's shallow, but cooler underneath.

This is due to the sun warming BOTH the water and surfaces, while the sediment below where the roots are remains cooler.

If you want to debate this, please go and test the temps at different at different depths where the plants are in natural systems. Unless you have geothermal heating, this is not a likely situation(heating from below).

In lakes and very slow moving water, the differences are even more dramatic.
Lakes always(99.9% of the time) have cooler water lower in depth, and it can be quite large.

Plants live in lakes, swamps, ditches, marshes also, perhaps more species than flowing water at least part of the season. Rivers/streams will be closer in temp with the water and sediments.

A more dramatic and obvious example: Why is it that the sand on a beach is hot on top, yet cool underneath?
This is opposite to what you are saying.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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If I used them, which in the past I have(7 sets over 10 years of use), I would have to be able to justify at some level, in practical terms, in real world terms, in economic terms and in some sort of scientific terms/reasoning they work.

If we add CO2, we can see dramatic results.
If we add cables, no one has ever shown that it helped their plants I know of.

They can guess about it, but they offered no demonstrated way or method to test their claim, just "trust them". I and other folks offered several ways to test this for cables, we found no difference and so had anyone else willing to try it as well.

ADA also sells Tourmaline and Penac.
Sounds more like hopping on the bandwagon to sell and market products, not look into whether they work and enhance plant growth/horticulture.

I'm sure ADA did lots of research with Penac/tourmaline:wink:
Just because they sell, does not imply it works, only that there is a market for it.

They sell diet pills made from Hydrilla, do you honestly think they work and everything they say about them is true?

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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