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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091008/ap_on_re_us/us_soccer_mom_gun

Sad, but it's very often the case where a domestic issue(lost 4 folks this way I know), mental bipolar issue (brother in law committed suicide), or with kids playing with the weapons when not stored correctly.

Simply having guns increases the risk of killing and dying an incredible amount.

I no longer own guns, rarely used them since hunting is no longer much of an interest where I live, and few folks I know hunt here. I'd rather go mountain biking.

Anyway, there is a lot of irony.

Still, we still own cars and they kill as well, they increase the risk of death also.

I do not think I am an advocate for guns, nor a large critic either, since there are other examples such as cars etc that also increase the risk or booze and cars, or booze and guns or contraband and guns.

Or cars and guns, drive by's etc.

Hehe, weird world, but looking at these issues, and other places where guns are rare, I have wonder.

Suicide/killing spouses in the heat of the moment is much harder to do with most other weapons.

Are guns and owning them really worth it?

I cannot reason why they are truthfully.
Like I said, prior gun owner, hunting, lost folks to the bullet close to me and still feel the aftermath.

Thoughts?


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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Even though people are stupid and mis-use them, I know that guns are worth it! I heard a story on the news, where some people broke into a guys house and killed him and his wife infront of their kids! Would that have happened if the dad had an AK-47? Also who SELLS the guns to the people that have killed countless people? Just a thought, Jake.
 

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I agree with you Kid creole.
 

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Whats to say if he didn't have a gun he wouldn't just pick up a kitchen knife and stab her? Should we then have a ban on kitchen knives? How many people die each year by stabbing in comparision to guns? I think you can insert any "weapon" (even railroad ties) in those phrases and it really doesn't matter. Its not the weapon its the people that kill.
 

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Sorry to hear about the issues, but I would venture to say that your more likley to get killed by a vehicle whether under your power or anothers even if you own a firearm. Just my random gun schpeel.....Im not much of a hunter, but I have to admit I enjoy going to the shooting range every now and then. I know afew people who would probably be safer to themselves and others without a firearm.
 

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I appreciate the attempt at analogy, but guns don't serve a vital function like transportation. Guns are devices that are created for the specific purpose of firing projectiles at targets to cause death (presumably for hunting food). Cars have the handy ability to drive us from point A to point B.

So it's a little different, imo.
 

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This is a very complicated issue. There are many reasons or ways that people get shot. As other have said, outlawing guns doesn't mean that the outlaws won't have them anyways. It could reduce that number though. But then you are taking privileges, maybe even rights, away from others who would use guns responsibly. Gun control laws are very difficult because you have two very passionate groups of people you are trying to please.

Another part of the danger of guns has been created or increased by the taboo that so many have put on gun ownership. It can be almost shameful to have a gun in many peoples eyes. So they hide the gun somewhere in the house and never talk of it. Children grow up in a house with guns, but their parents have never spoken to them about it. What do you expect that child to do when they come across that gun? They see it as mysterious and exciting. I grew up in a family that had quite a few guns. I lived in the country and I would go out and shoot beer bottles at the edge of the orchard where the neighbors dumped them all. But my parents had taught me gun safety and had spent time target shooting and hunting with me. I had to demonstrate safe practices before I could have my own gun.

Like Tom, I don't sit on either end of the gun control spectrum, but I am very passionate about the need for gun safety education.

When I was in 6th grade we had a school camp we went to for a week. The county sheriff would come and have a gun safety class where he would demonstrate the power and danger of guns. It was a good class and we all listened and were impressed. But now, they don't do that class anymore because parents didn't like having guns near their kids. That type of reaction to guns is the wrong way to go I think.
 

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I used to hunt a lot and I had a few guns, but since moving to town I don't really have the time or inclination for hunting anymore. The guns in the house made me nervous so I sold them off. They never would have been much use for home defense because they were locked away so tight. I never liked having guns just for the sake of having guns.

I still have my old archery equipment. I don't anticipate deer hunting anytime soon but I have a lot of nice old memories of hunting up north and I keep it as souvenir.
 

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the bad thing about news stories like the burglar/murder story is that it causes hysteria to where you think you'd need a gun even though you live in a safe neighborhood.

Chances are, you don't need a gun in a safe community. And accidents do happen.
 

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I appreciate the attempt at analogy, but guns don't serve a vital function like transportation. Guns are devices that are created for the specific purpose of firing projectiles at targets to cause death (presumably for hunting food). Cars have the handy ability to drive us from point A to point B.

So it's a little different, imo.
I think guns do serve a vital function. Our founding fathers envisioned the possibility it might someday be necessary for citizens to once again organize and defend themselves from the federal government. For this reason, they made it as difficult as they possibly could to take away the right to own weapons. Let's hope it never comes to that, but it's more likely to happen without an armed public.
 

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not against people owning guns. I just personally don't like them and choose not to be in the vicinity of them. They are devices with a sole purpose of causing injury and/or death.

Sure anything can be a weapon. A hammer can smash skulls in. A screwdriver can stab your ass. But they have other more constructive uses, so I keep them around.

And if the government ever comes at me martial-law style, I'm already aware of the fact that shooting guns at them isn't going to benefit me much. I think I'll be hiding instead!
 

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You're actually posting in a lounge area, Tom? I'm amazed.

Anyhow, I think the issue here sits not with the guns, but with the quality of people our society creates. There are countries like Switzerland where military service in mandatory, and you get a gun out of the deal, so there's a very high level of gun ownership. At the same time, there are very few accidental shootings, or ones involving domestic violence.

On the other side of things, there are countries like the US. There are guns and cars everywhere, but most of the population has poor training with either one. To be honest, education in general within the country is rather poor, and constantly getting worse. Some how throwing people in jail or taking their money away for using one of these things improperly is supposed to teach them how to use cars and guns responsibly. According to the theory of the US justice department, treating people like animals and shoving the most troubled of them in tightly confined spaces for years will make them behave more like reasonable individuals.

I am a huge advocate for letting people get their hands on what ever they please, but at the same time having laws that effect the ones that can easily harm others. In the case of guns, this means education above all else, rather than restriction.

All of that aside, I would find it stunning that people in this hobby would be concerned with gun control when most of us have nitrate based fertilizer sitting around.

-Philosophos
 

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I think doctors kill more people every year than guns do............. and don't even get me started on politicians.
 

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There is no doubt whatsoever that a lack of firearms nationwide would drastically change our society for the better. Take the other countries for example.

In England no one is allowed to carry handguns, I am fairly certain this includes law enforcement. In 2002 there were 15,000 gun-related homocides.

In Australia no citizens may carry handguns, though I believe law enforcement IS permitted. In 2001 there were 24,000 gun-related homocides.

Now, in the US anyone may carry a handgun if they have gone through the legal process of obtaining the correct permits and training. In 2001 there were nearly 400,000 gun-related homocides.

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm



That said, most members of this forum do not live in either of the above countries. Personally, I live in Knoxville, TN where one of the most horrific, voilent murders in the US took place about 2 1/2 years ago. A young couple was carjacked, kidnapped, then raped and beaten. They were then murdered and their bodies dumped. This crime was so bad that a local waste management company (across the street) purchased the lot just to level the house and put a memorial to their suffering in it's place.

For reasons like this, I carry a concealed Glock 26 (9mm) 100% of the time I am in public and it stays on my headboard through the night. I agree that it may be a bit much, but at the very least, I will not be the next Christopher Newsom, nor will I allow my fiancee to be the next Channon Christian.

Link below, some information in the link is graphic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom


Note: My stance on firearms is not that "something bad happenned I better carry a gun to protect myself from bad people." I have been shooting all types of weapons (rifles, handguns, blackpowder, even bows) since I was about 6 years old. It is simply a recreational activity that doubles as a personal defense TOOL.

The point is, the world is not a perfect place and you better look out for you and yours.
 

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In England no one is allowed to carry handguns, I am fairly certain this includes law enforcement. In 2002 there were 15,000 gun-related homocides.

In Australia no citizens may carry handguns, though I believe law enforcement IS permitted. In 2001 there were 24,000 gun-related homocides.

Now, in the US anyone may carry a handgun if they have gone through the legal process of obtaining the correct permits and training. In 2001 there were nearly 400,000 gun-related homocides.
What you've neglected to do here is to account for population, which creates a base rate fallacy. I really do hate how bad the statistics are for any major debate in North American society are; it's like people have forgotten basic math.

England 2001 population: 49,138,831
Australia 2001 population: 19,533,972
United States 2000 population: 281,421,906

49,138,831/15000 = 3275.9:1 people:murders involving hand guns
19,533,972/24000 = 813.9:1 people:murders involving hand guns
281,421,906/400000 = 703.6:1 people:murders involving hand guns

So the united states is about 15% worse than a country with no hand guns, and yet there's a 400% difference between two countries that both prevent hand guns. Something is amiss here.

That said, most members of this forum do not live in either of the above countries. Personally, I live in Knoxville, TN where one of the most horrific, voilent murders in the US took place about 2 1/2 years ago. A young couple was carjacked, kidnapped, then raped and beaten. They were then murdered and their bodies dumped. This crime was so bad that a local waste management company (across the street) purchased the lot just to level the house and put a memorial to their suffering in it's place.
Anecdotes do not equate representative sampling.

Note: My stance on firearms is not that "something bad happenned I better carry a gun to protect myself from bad people." I have been shooting all types of weapons (rifles, handguns, blackpowder, even bows) since I was about 6 years old. It is simply a recreational activity that doubles as a personal defense TOOL.

The point is, the world is not a perfect place and you better look out for you and yours.
You don't sleep with a glock by your head in case something bad happens? And you've got to look out for your self while saying that you shouldn't cary firearms for protection because something bad has happened, even though you've used an anecdote to support your case? Could you clarify this?

-Philosophos
 
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