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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok here's the situation. Seven days ago I lost one of my favorite fish....a very healthy,beautiful male Emerald Rainbow. I had noticed he quit eating and went into hiding about 2 days before he died...yes, I knew something was amiss. I started on Pepso food, which has worked before, he ate. Well, he died 2 days after that. While this was going on, I looked closely at the others in the tank; 3 Irian rainbows, 2 Emerald raindows, 3 praecox, a few Gold Dust mollies, and my true SAE. The only prob I saw was the beta male praecox...the smaller male, he still lives tonight. This male however has a sore near the anus area. I came home tonight and found another favorite, my SAE, belly up. He had no signs of sickness, other than the last two days he was up at the top as if he was either looking for food or gasping for air...apparently it was the later. He was dead tonight. I really liked him/her. I am afraid of losing more. I have treated with Pepso, Melafix, Parasite clear, and Binox(fungus and bacteria). What do I need to do? I have not seen the signs of bloating and not eating. I don't want to lose any more. Any suggestions? Thanks to all!
 

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Children Boogie
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well, more will die...

do water changes and get some chemical reading for your tank.. we have no idea what the problem is... But i can guess.. get readings on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks, here's the rest of the story I guess. No plants, fish, etc. introduced before this started. Automated CO2 has been introduced but not before the first death and praecox sore was noticed. No ammonia or nitrite, nitrates have been what most would consider high for over 1yr but not stressful based on fish and plants growth. Last fish death was at least a yr ago. Tank had no visually identifiable(sp sorry) changes; ie-plant/fish death, odd behaivor, lack of feeding, etc. I have not introduced any new fish in over a yr. Those 3 were my Emerald rainbows which had nearly doubled in size as they were juveniles at the time and the one that died still had beautiful color when he died. No water parameters have changed over the past few months. That's what has me so perplexed by this. Thanks for any additional info or suggestions for meds. -Ben
 

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Children Boogie
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turn off the co2. do a partial water change . And start an antibiotic treatment on the whole tank... the plants should be fine. Sores are signs of bacterial infections.

we don't know what the real cause is. i think you missed something but you can treat the symptoms...

did you feed them live food?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am in the process of water changing. I stopped CO2. I also lost my beautiful, deep red male Irian rainbow. I hope not to loose any more fish. If I don't and resume CO2 and then loose more fish, I will be auctioning off my CO2 system. My fish are more important than plants. By the way, there were no signs or symptoms at all of disease on my rainbow.In three years, I have never had a fish die off. Its bizarre to me.
 

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Are your plants pearling? Do you have CO2 on at night or any supplimental agitation? I had many rainbows in my tank when I got into CO2. I had a couple mishaps were my surface agitation didnt take place at night. I came back to almost all my rainbows dead and SAEs. They seem to be more oxygen sensative than the rest of my fish. That is completely unrealated to sores though.
 

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wow...why blame CO2?
If he quit eating and hid, this isn't CO2...nor can CO2 be attributed to the sore on the Praecox.
Sounds like a bacterial infection, and CO2 has nothing to do with it. Are they all at the surface gasping? No you say? it isn't CO2.
I wouldn't give up an the planted tank. If you value your fish, they much prefer a natural home to a bare bottom box IMO
 

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He did mention gasping for air. Though I would first always make sure there is enough O2 before blaming excessive CO2. But gasping can be due to other sickness as well. If it were do to insufficient O2 then alot of your fish would be gasping not just 1 or 2 sickly ones. Take a look at your tank with a flashlight int he middle of the night or in the morning and make sure they arent gasping. But since you stopped co2 this is probably meaningless now. After having gasping fish and several problems and deaths, I found my tank has done much better by cranking up the co2 much higher than before (now I have pearling helping out o2 levels) and shutting it off at night combined with an additional near surface powerhead on a night timer and pointing my spraybar up slightly just to get some movement on surface. Some folks think that with CO2 you want to eliminate any surface movement at all (even at night), and I have found this to be a bad idea. But as FN said, I'd be looking at other possibilites unrelated to CO2 as the culprit, just wanted to make sure your fish were indeed getting enough O2 (which is important for most living things :tongue: ).
 

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He did mention gasping for air. Though I would first always make sure there is enough O2 before blaming excessive CO2. But gasping can be due to other sickness as well. If it were do to insufficient O2 then alot of your fish would be gasping not just 1 or 2 sickly ones. Take a look at your tank with a flashlight int he middle of the night or in the morning and make sure they arent gasping. But since you stopped co2 this is probably meaningless now. After having gasping fish and several problems and deaths, I found my tank has done much better by cranking up the co2 much higher than before (now I have pearling helping out o2 levels) and shutting it off at night combined with an additional near surface powerhead on a night timer and pointing my spraybar up slightly just to get some movement on surface. Some folks think that with CO2 you want to eliminate any surface movement at all (even at night), and I have found this to be a bad idea. But as FN said, I'd be looking at other possibilites unrelated to CO2 as the culprit, just wanted to make sure your fish were indeed getting enough O2 (which is important for most living things :tongue: ).
CL..I agree 100%....not CO2..but lak of O2. urning off at night, and the spraybar at the surface, all things that help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks for the thoughts. As I have now reported in another section, my fish deaths have stopped, water cloudiness is my biggest issue. Yes, i had nice pearling of some of my plants, but my water is cloudy where it never was before now. My question at this point is, can you get contaminated CO2? I saw no eveidence of disease in either my fully grown male Irian Rainbow or my SAE, until CO2 injection. I never had this issue with DIY CO2. Any thoughts? Again no parameters changed except for CO2 and the original fish sickness. Thanks again Ben
 

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I'm thinking another route, if your water is cloudy now I'm thinking that your biofilter took a hit from the meds. I'd keep up with large water changes often (I'm a discus keeper so daily for me, :)). Also that is a lot of meds to hit them with in a short time. How much of time period was it between meds?

Tina
 

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Might want to read this article on mycobacteriosis (fish TB) in Rainbowfish. Rainbows are notorious carriers, but often don't come down with any symptoms unless stressed. From my personal experience, praecox rainbows from the pet shops are very prone to ulcers. It is impossible to determne if the ulcers result from TB without sending the fish to a lab for post-mortem analysis. Your best bet is to just keep up with your waterchanges. Rainbows are among the first fish to succomb to poor water quality. Please don't let this discourage you from keeping these wonderful fish.
 

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My question at this point is, can you get contaminated CO2? I saw no eveidence of disease in either my fully grown male Irian Rainbow or my SAE, until CO2 injection. I never had this issue with DIY CO2. Any thoughts? Again no parameters changed except for CO2 and the original fish sickness. Thanks again Ben
Where do you get your co2 from? What kind of tank do you have? I heard a while back to avoid welding co2 and welding tanks so I opted for 'food grade' co2 which is certified for human consumption. They also baked and cleaned my tank for this. I have never heard of anyone else doing this except me (cant remember where I orignally heard that) and I have been accused of being and idiot by RexG. for paying a whopping $10 more for the certified gas. So really no idea if it is worth it but there is very little chance of contamination verses welding stuff, and that $10 extra is on 2 years now and I havent refilled yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok...overdue update. 1st...thanks for all the response. Fish deaths have stopped. Water clear again. Replaced my lost male irian and emerald and moved the other SAE from a 20g tank to my 40g. I ended up w/the usual BBA problem during this transition period. BBA almost gone now due to 2 factors. Here's what I think happened and warning to others and I should have known better myself. Overdosing of ferts. I believe I needed a longer ramp up time on ferts. I didn't go above the dosing I had when I used only DIY CO2 but it had been several mo since I consistently dosed ferts and used CO2. I guess what had me so confused is that only 3 fish showed any real signs of distress, and they were among my most established and healthy(2yrs ea). I would have thought the problem would be more systemic if the ferts were the issue. About 2 weeks ago I stopped all ferts. I just started light dosing 2 days ago. Everything seems ok for the moment. I'm going to take my time ramping up this time. Plant growth is very good and fish seem happy. I have pearling in my Java fern, Crypt, and some in the sword. The L card. is doing better and my R. Magenta is growing twice as quickly as before. I really hated losing my 3 best fish but I guess it was a great lesson I 'll never forget. I hope to soon(spring temps) offer some of my plants for sale again. BTW I got my CO2 from a Paintball field 1mi from my house because I couldn't find anyone to fill a 2.5# CO2 tank. I don't think the gas was tainted now, but I was grasping at straws before. Again, thanks to all. God Bless and best wishes. Oh and the one male Praecox STILL has the sore!...but he eats and acts fine. UGH! Ben
 
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