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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off wanted to put to rest all the people who say that if you add a German Blue Ram to your tank it is going to immediately wipe out all of your shrimp. I have had my Blue Rams for like 3 months now and they have not made any noticeable dent on my cherry shrimp population.


Secondly someone please help! Someone tell me what sex my blue rams are?

 

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Well, if there is nowhere for the shrimp to hide, then yes, they will eat them, but in a dense plant bed? No way.

They learn pretty quick.

I call my electric blue rams "Crows", because as I trim, they follow right behind me picking off the stupid RCS that run out of the plant beds just like a farmer pulling a plow and the crows picking off the bugs and worms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, if there is nowhere for the shrimp to hide, then yes, they will eat them, but in a dense plant bed? No way.

They learn pretty quick.

I call my electric blue rams "Crows", because as I trim, they follow right behind me picking off the stupid RCS that run out of the plant beds just like a farmer pulling a plow and the crows picking off the bugs and worms.
This must be the case because I do have a million and one spots for them to hide. I also can't figure out why the RCS are so dumb they literally swim by touching the GBR's.

Hah, awesome mental picture of that one. I have to say from reading your journal of a few of your tanks. You sure do have something against cherry shrimp. What did they ever do to you? Hah
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Both pictures look like females.

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Yeah that is what I figured because I had read that you look for the black lower fins and the blue sheen on the sidespot. However they have such different appearances. One seems to be more colorful then the other and has a lot higher and spiky upper fins.
 

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This must be the case because I do have a million and one spots for them to hide. I also can't figure out why the RCS are so dumb they literally swim by touching the GBR's.

Hah, awesome mental picture of that one. I have to say from reading your journal of a few of your tanks. You sure do have something against cherry shrimp. What did they ever do to you? Hah
In dense stands of plants, they are "that which cannot be killed".

I feed them killed to my Betta macrostoma every 2-3 days or so when I clean the low grade culls out of the prefilters. I have 3 shrimp free tanks and 2 infested with mostly fires, but some low grades do appear and are selected for removal.

The Starougnye mat I have in my 180 holds hundreds of them, even with electric blue rams and checkboards trying to pick them off all the time.

Few predators can knock them back in such habitats. Bare tank? Yep, I have a empty 20 I toss extra shrimp and a fish every so often, the shrimp go missing pretty quick then.
 

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Hey, everbodies gotta eat! Crows lol.
The outlaw Josey Wales after shooting a man and not wanting to bury him

"Even a buzzard's got eat, same as a worm"

Almost the same thing as the crows, I work in and around farmers, agriculture, so I this stuff every day, including worms and buzzards, flattened wabbit, squirrels who never made it, the crows, massive flocks. In the rice paddies, I see herons and egrets doing the very same thing. In the water, I see the crappie and bass after the mechanical weed harvester pulls out 10 tons of aquatic weeds from lake Tahoe.

When my brother in law says they are going to dinner, I tag along, an easy free meal is hard to resist:thumbsup:
 

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I was told that females have pink bellies.

Also its good to hear about more positive experiences with rams and RCS. I figured that provided enough cover, the RCS would do just fine. I'll be introducing some this week hopefully to my 20G with two bubble rams.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I was told that females have pink bellies.

Also its good to hear about more positive experiences with rams and RCS. I figured that provided enough cover, the RCS would do just fine. I'll be introducing some this week hopefully to my 20G with two bubble rams.
I think you would have been better doing it in reverse. Introducing the shrimp to the tank then adding the rams. However it is worth a shot anyway.
 

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I'm not sure it's a myth. I had quite a few red cherry shrimp in a 20 gallon with some corydoras and added two German rams. For a few months, everything was fine, and the shrimp population increased. Now, however, almost all of the shrimp are gone. Could be the water conditions, of course, but it could also be that the rams have developed a taste for shrimp (and who could blame them?).

I agree that if you have lots of hiding places the shrimp will have a chance to survive and even thrive, so I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that rams will eat RCS, but it certainly can happen.
 

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I was told that females have pink bellies.

Also its good to hear about more positive experiences with rams and RCS. I figured that provided enough cover, the RCS would do just fine. I'll be introducing some this week hopefully to my 20G with two bubble rams.
Keep us updated on the 20g! I'm going down a very similar path with my 20g H..
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'm not sure it's a myth. I had quite a few red cherry shrimp in a 20 gallon with some corydoras and added two German rams. For a few months, everything was fine, and the shrimp population increased. Now, however, almost all of the shrimp are gone. Could be the water conditions, of course, but it could also be that the rams have developed a taste for shrimp (and who could blame them?).

I agree that if you have lots of hiding places the shrimp will have a chance to survive and even thrive, so I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that rams will eat RCS, but it certainly can happen.
It was probably the Rams because RCS are unbelievably durable shrimp. I had a 10 gallon tank setup and decided to tear it down. Well I was being lazy and let a pool of water sit in it in the garage because I didn't feel like washing out all the gravel and everything. Well that was about 3 months ago. Last night I went to clean that tank out and to my amazement there is a colony of about 25 cherry shrimp in there. No idea how they survived with no light, food, filtration or anything.
 

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I will keep everyone posted - hopefully I'll be able to successfully introduce the RCS to the tank and let everyone know how I did it.

I don't think we can say that Rams eating RCS is a myth. That's a bit strong. I do know plenty of people who lost boatloads of RCS to Rams.

However, there are plenty of people that have success in keeping the two...enough imo to try it out. I'll be introducing 20 shrimp and I'll monitor the Rams' behavior. The simple fact is that not all fish have the same temperament or appetite. My fish have been on blood worms and algae flakes for quite a long time and never touched my amano's, some of which are still small enough to be ingested.

My hope is to maintain a strong population...perhaps maintained by good breeding.
 

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There are four things that can be used to sex blue rams:

1) Punctuated spangling in the black spot -- Your second one shows that (which indicates likely female). I don't see any in the first one.

2) Black stripes on pelvic fins -- Your second one shows that too (another female indicator). I don't see that on the first one either (although the pic isn't great).

3) Shape of anal fin -- The second one is long enough (extending into the tail fin) to indicate a male, but it's not pointy enough in my opinion. I can't see the shape in the first one

4) Greatly extended dorsal spine -- Not showing on either, but that doesn't seem to really show up until they get older.

The pink belly is a dead giveaway for a female, but neither of these have that, so you have to go by the above criteria...

Conclusion: I *think* you might have two females. That second one feels like a male to me, but I'm not sure why I think that. Do you have any better side shots of that first one?
 

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I made this mistake with some maturing angels. Everything thing was fine with the angels as they grew but once they past the 50 cent piece size everything fell apart. As soon as the first angel ate his first shimp my 500+ shrimp disappeared over night but it wasn't because of being eaten. As Tom points out the majority of them aren't stupid. Once they feel a threat they retreat into the dark, far crevices not to be seen again until the threat is removed.
 

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Abrium, its precisely why I haven't created crevices and caves that the shrimp, or fish, can go into. I'm planning on the fauna providing enough cover for the shrimp.

Here's what I did. I can't say it'll work for sure but I'll let you all know once I try it out.

I have a half-moon 20G. On the far left side, opposite of where the Rams and other larger fish congregate, I have a little "reserve" that is almost completely walled off by plants of varying height and density. Aside from my cories and ottos, no other fish really makes it back there. I'm hoping that the shrimp will make this their home...hopefully int he dense flora and use that little reserve to drop food which they can come and eat in peace. This side of the tank is closest to the bed and viewing area - the plan being that we can actually see the shrimp while still being protected from the larger fish.

It may work, may not, who knows. Maybe the fish don't go there bc there's no reason to (although I have put bloodworms there and they still didnt go back there). I did this after careful observation of my rams...they don't swim high, don't explore the tank much but simply patrol a the right half of the tank for food and the occasional flaunting - I hear this is how they behave in most aquariums and perhaps in the wild as well - unlike angels that like to patrol the entire length of the tank. Nearly all the space, vertical or horizontal is utilized by angels - not so with Rams. The shrimp will be on the opposite side. If they want to venture out and expand their territory, the shrimp can do that at their own peril lol.

So we'll see! This is why I'm buying only 20, largely adult RCS specimens.
 
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