[eklikewhoa]

True hobbyist boycott the purchase of what's here so that they can die in your LFS or for some unkknowing to purchase and have it die in their tank........that's really gonna help it.




Not knocking your idea but if you think about it you are better off trying to save them then leaving them.

 

[plantbrain]

Quite a few things live on in the hobby that are gone from the wild.
L46 Zebra plecos come to mind
Victorian haps etc

I saw some of the danios the other day, pretty fish.
They should buy the habitat or have aquarist pitch in and save it.

You have to save the ecosystem unit to do this.
And have the local folks get something out of it, something that makes them $$$, like raising them for export and maintaining the natural location as well for genetic diversity stock.

Manage and preserve sounds like a more workable plan than boycott.
For the fish, habitat and the hobby.

You satisfy demand, educate, preserve the habitat, help locals, help other hobbyists take part in saving it.

Take only from nature what she has to offer, no more.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[jmy808]

Well said Tom, this would be the only way to accomplish a win-win outcome.
Jay

 

[ianmoede]

Ok now, chop chop, someone get on that....

 

[Blacksunshine]

boycotting them really will not stop anything. since they are still so new and so few breeders. realistically buying only captive bred is not likley to happen. We can stop buying but what of the asian countries that put very little consideration to this problem.
Sure we here in america can bitch and moan all day long about whats happening. But we have no power in this reguard because of the countries they are farmed from. With people there that have little to no care about what they are destroying. They don't care if they fish them to extinction because they make 10 cents per fish. Its the same thing with arrowanas. some species are being fished to extinction there. Sure the goverment had to step in and regulate. But that dosen't stop poachers from fishing wilds and selling them on the Blk Market.
So why not buy what is in your LFS and start breeding them. So at least those fish don't go to some moron or some kid that have no intention of taking proper care or have no idea about the need to breed these fish.

Like Tom said. You would have to go there and Buy the land. Then you'd have to put a huge fence around it to keep people out of it.

 

[~T~]

Are zebra pl*cos actually gone from the wild, I thought there was just a ban on them being collected.

 

[eklikewhoa]

Just ban from being collected.... there are reports of them still being poached to this day.


The people in the countries in which a lot of the stock comes from know what they are doing is putting food on the table. We here in America drive cars all day and have factories that is killing trees/ozone and in the long run actually killing off the animals that live in this world but we do it why? It's our way of life and one way or another it puts food on our tables.




Quick someone boycott almost anything aresol, stop driving cars and boycott the automotive industry, stop buying brand name anything cause the same kids that are probably catching these fish are making those items so if we don't buy it they won't be paid the measly amount for their work it's better off since they will die and no one will overcollect anything.........Rant off.

 

[plantbrain]

I believe they are still being poached(Zebras).
A friend saw a large station and they had hunrdeds, this was several months ago. They claimed they where breeding them and exporting them.
I'm not so sure.............

It's like the Panda, a good pretty little environmental poster fish.

So it's a high profile Xingu fish. And not a bad idea.

They are breedable anyway and that forces folks to seek other more agriculture/aquaculture methods. They have been bred since at least the mid 1990's and likely before. Local folks here tried to sell me a bred colony for 500$ of 9 fish. Good deal today

Same with this pretty little fish, breed the suckers!!!
We heard similar stories about the Rose lines as well in India etc.

The market creates a demand for $ and then folks get smart and start realizing it's easier to farm these things than collect from the wild.

These fish and Zebras ought to be farmed.
There's a strong market for that.

But I think more needs to be done locally where wild fish are from.
Wetland loss is extremely problematic.

That's why these boycott issues are joke, they are short sighted. I do like to see folks try to help and save things like this, but try to think further.

They focus merely on one single species, one issue, rather than addressing the entire wetland water shed. That protects the functional ecosystem unit, and all the critters, not just the poster fish that you personally identify with.
That single species focus in old school environmental management, it's being replaced by a better broader integrated approach.

There are many benefits to preservation of a wetland and these fish. Less mosquitos, malaria, West Nile, other human diseases, better habitat for native species other than these fish, better habitat for locals, more $ for local economy, fun place for folks and kids to go, play etc.

Better cleaner water etc.

Saving ecosystem water sheds is the best approach, as the ecosystems are linked and interwoven, each species plays a role and there are many indirect effects each species has on another.

Trying to piece meal them apart is very difficult, even if the managers have a single species end point focus. So boycotting a species might help a little, but if they bull doze the area, add a house, dump sewer water in there etc, then that does not matter.

So it's best to address the entire system rather than one fish species from poaching.

Worst than poaching: habitat loss. That is what is the world's greatest threat to natural systems is. Next? Invasive species.

I hate poaching as much as the next person, and it's hard to stop but we do have parks, preserves and such for these reasons.

If you are passionate about it, try focusing on saving this wetland and then try doing things locally to save your own wetlands.

CA has lost 96% of it's wetlands in the last 100 years :icon_frow



Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[dufus]

Ok, SO what can we as hobbyists do to most effectively help to save the habitat of the galaxy? I mean besides being radical, buying a plane ticket and a sniper rifle and picking off anyone encroaching onto it
I am gonna try to find the people to contact for this stuff, see if i can find someone that can really help.
The boycott would help alot, whether it looks like it or not. Think if dr. martin luther king, rosa parks and such. when they boycotted the city buses, it lead to many other things and eventually led to many great rewards.

I think that by continuing to buy wild caught fish, we are still, again by supply and demand, a driving force behind the collecting. While yes, some care very little about this, the ones who do care can still be a big impact.

so what can we do from our lazy asses in the U.S or wherever, to help?

 

[eklikewhoa]

Find some sort of help the marshland group that is actively trying to help and give them all your money in support of it all. Of course nothing happens overnight and they might not help the specific endangered area you want them to but slowly and surely.

Buy all the wildcaught specimens you find and fly them back to their homeland, either way someone's gonna buy them wether it be a hardcore hobbyist or some grandma buying them for their grandkids b-day to put in the tank she plans to get them that day.

 

[dufus]

See, the reason i see the "celestial danio" not so much being bought by unknowing, newbi peaps, and more by hobbyists is that they cost so much for a little fish, when the harlies and neons and zebra danios cost so much less.

 

[dufus]

Here we go, PFK has a good idea, encourage only those set up for breeding, or trying to breed them to buy them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestichthys_margaritatus#Conservation

 

[Aqua Dave]

I personally will not buy any fish that I know are wild caught. Determining whether they are wild or not can be a challenge since all you can really do is ask the LFS where they came from, but at least you can try.

Saying that you're "saving" the wild caught fish by buying them is just pure rationalization for buying the fish, plain and simple. I also don't eat tuna because it has been severely overfished. I could rationalize eating tuna by saying that if I don't eat it somebody else will and it would be better in my belly than somebody else's, but I don't.

Supply & Demand. Take away the demand for something and there's no reason to supply it. Sure, you can't control what everyone else does, but you can control what you do.

My personal opinion is that wild caught fish should only be available to breeders. Once the fish can be aquarium bred then the rest of us can have some.

If you want to do something globally, then join one of the many organizations that work around the world to save habitat and help locals find other means of supporting themselves. They can always use money for their work.

David

 

[eklikewhoa]

Saying that you're "saving" the wild caught fish by buying them is just pure rationalization for buying the fish, plain and simple. I also don't eat tuna because it has been severely overfished. I could rationalize eating tuna by saying that if I don't eat it somebody else will and it would be better in my belly than somebody else's, but I don't.



David

Two totally different things here.

Tuna---dead already so there is no bringing it back to life
Celestial---still a fighting chance at survival if provided a better home then the LFS

 

[dufus]

i think aquadave as the same ideas as me.

ek-yes, the tuna IS already dead, but, by you notbuying it, the demand is 1 less person, and if enough people do it, then there won't be a major demand, and if you relate this to WC celestials, then you can see how i got the idea.

 

[A Hill]

Two totally different things here.

Tuna---dead already so there is no bringing it back to life
Celestial---still a fighting chance at survival if provided a better home then the LFS

I agree

i think aquadave as the same ideas as me.

ek-yes, the tuna IS already dead, but, by you notbuying it, the demand is 1 less person, and if enough people do it, then there won't be a major demand, and if you relate this to WC celestials, then you can see how i got the idea.

Dufus, I think you're looking at fish as inaminate objects (sorta)

Let me try to explain the problem.

Where they are being collected- the people just see fast cash, and more food for their children, better lives. And I understand that.

What you see is a fish that is being overfished, and hoping that if you cut the demand they supply will have to change.

The thing you're overlooking.

The people collecting them don't know the difference.

ALSO if you don't buy them someone else will:hihi: So you can either, LEAVE THEM. Have them possibly die in the LFS or have someone who knows nothing about them buy them.

OR you buy them to breed them.

The responsible thing In my eyes is a mix.

You talk to the manager of the LFS, he might not know of the problem. Print out the articles by That UK mag out and explain to him the problem. Then buy all the fish he has with the agreement that he will not buy them anymore, and you will breed them and sell exclusively to him.

In my opinion that IS the only way to help in the USA without doing what Tom's said, or personally getting involved.

So Please, if you know what you're doing, buy the fish and talk to the lfs manager.

-Andrew

 

[dufus]

I think you have the best conclusion yet fish newb. i like your thoughts on educating the LFS. i think i'm gonna print a few copies for a couple stores i know coul use the info.

 

[Blacksunshine]

You talk to the manager of the LFS, he might not know of the problem. Print out the articles by That UK mag out and explain to him the problem. Then buy all the fish he has with the agreement that he will not buy them anymore, and you will breed them and sell exclusively to him.

-Andrew

Theres your ticket right there. This is what I've loosely arranged with the LFS where I got mine. I'm thinking about going back today and snatching up more of what they had. being 9 dollar fish there makes it a little tough to buy all of them. But I will do what I can.

 

[crazy loaches]

Interesting read, I just learned of these fish recently and their problems. I've also been in one LFS (Aquarium Adventure) and happened to see them for the first time, they are quite stunning little fish. And it was written right on the glass that they were aquarium breed only. So guess I cant do much boycotting.