Just a heads up. There seems to have been a glitch in the matrix. You have posted this 5 times. 
Wow, you're right. I thought the thread wasn't posted at all. I kept getting error message as I tried to post it. I'll take down the other threads, thanks for letting me know!Just a heads up. There seems to have been a glitch in the matrix. You have posted this 5 times.![]()
Thank you! Though I feel bad for the guy that already posted on one the other threads. I'll find his user and mention him here instead.Fixed it for you!
There unfortunately wasn't a way to merge his comment without causing this thread to go haywire. Had to pick the one with the most comments to save. Feel free to shoot me a PM if anything else goes wrong and we'll get it cleaned up.Thank you! Though I feel bad for the guy that already posted on one the other threads. I'll find his user and mention him here instead.
Factory made, off-the-shelves lights are incredibly limited here in Indonesia and even more so in Bali. We start at lights from "brands" such as Yamato on the lower end level and have Kandilla on the medium end level. The problem is that those are all incredibly cheap lights of which the medium end still only costs about 10 dollars because they are, at best, OEM level lights with no support center, website or additional information to be found on the company anywhere online. Then we immediately jump the very high end Twinstar SA model or Chihiros WRGB 2 that start at 250 dollars and are unfortunately way out of my budget. I'd love to buy the Chihiros at some point but would need to save up for quite a while to get one for all 3 tanks.Just curious, why did you decide to build the lights yourself? I think you might be setting yourself up for (yet another) can of worms. Personally, I decided that it was a better use of my time and money to buy an off-the-shelf lighting solutions, i.e., planted aquarium specific grow lights or LED bulbs.
Can you give more info on your tank set up? Are you EI dosing? Are you using CO2? What are you using to dose micro-nutrients, particularly Iron (Fe)?
If the triad for plant growth is >Light<>CO2<>Nutrients<, adequate dosing and CO2 will take you farther than lighting. In fact, too much light will always be the reason for algae. Even if you have those 80PAR, not having enough Fe will still limit that red coloration you want.
Getting back to lighting, I used the Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Light Calculator to estimate PAR. I used LED bulbs made for growing plants and so I was assured that the wavelength distribution was sufficient.
I just tried the calculator that attached, it seems to work quite well. This could definitely help get rough estimates for when I build the lights!Just curious, why did you decide to build the lights yourself? I think you might be setting yourself up for (yet another) can of worms. Personally, I decided that it was a better use of my time and money to buy an off-the-shelf lighting solutions, i.e., planted aquarium specific grow lights or LED bulbs.
Can you give more info on your tank set up? Are you EI dosing? Are you using CO2? What are you using to dose micro-nutrients, particularly Iron (Fe)?
If the triad for plant growth is >Light<>CO2<>Nutrients<, adequate dosing and CO2 will take you farther than lighting. In fact, too much light will always be the reason for algae. Even if you have those 80PAR, not having enough Fe will still limit that red coloration you want.
Getting back to lighting, I used the Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Light Calculator to estimate PAR. I used LED bulbs made for growing plants and so I was assured that the wavelength distribution was sufficient.
Yeah no worries, already mentioned him by name here and will let you know if something goes wrong again.There unfortunately wasn't a way to merge his comment without causing this thread to go haywire. Had to pick the one with the most comments to save. Feel free to shoot me a PM if anything else goes wrong and we'll get it cleaned up.
Well I can summarize. Looks like the post is gone.@Greggz I saw that you replied to my thread but somehow the thread got posted 5 times in row. The mods were kind enough to delete the duplicates but I did lose your reply. If it's not too much trouble would you mind posted it again here?
A lot to unpack.While my plants did get reddish, the problem was that I was growing more algae than plants. I figured that I was still doing something wrong in maintenance and started looking into fert regimes and co2 influence. It was only then that a guy a on YouTube mentioned something called lumen per liter. A whole new world opened up to me and I delved into studies, forums and videos that helped me understand this foreign concept. After weeks of researching I ended buying an HPL DIY lights with what I calculated was to give 65 lumens per liter. HPL DIY lights are big in Indonesia due to the lack of variety and quality in factory built lights. I started getting less algae and after a while I was "algae free" but my plants still didn't reach deep red coloration. I chalked it up to me making a mistake in the calculation somewhere or the diodes having less lumens than advertised.
This brings us to the here and now. Recently I figured out that lumens also do not cover everything when calculating what kind of lights I need. It is instead a steady PAR rating across the tank and an ideal 80 PAR reading at the carpet. Now I do not have the budget to buy a PAR meter unfortunately so I can do not much more then guess in that aspect. I did however also discover that I need a full color spectrum in the correct wavelengths and in the right Kelvin range!
So now I am suspecting that my 12,000 Kelvin white LED lights are not doing anything useful for my plants. I read a lot on the topics and watched quite a bit of videos covering the material as well. Still I have a lot questions that I cannot find a specific answer to and I was hoping that this tight-knit community could help fill in some blanks!
For example, I read that 5,000 to 6,500 Kelvin emulate the midday sunlight the best. Midday sunlight is basically what we strive for in the full spectrum lights. So does this mean that all white LED's that fall between those Kelvin levels are automatically full spectrum?
I found that full spectrum lights come in blurple and pink next to the white. Apparently the white LED's are the least efficient when compared to the other 2 with blurple being the most efficient. While white lights are more visually pleasing to the eye they lose more of the useful lights. I believe this to be true as a lot of articles say the same, but how much do you really lose? Is it an significant amount or negligible?
Sorry for the long read and I want to thank you all in advance for all the help!
I honestly hope I'm not because I am grasping at straws at this point. I mentioned this in an earlier reply so I'll copy paste it here again to make it easier.Well I can summarize. Looks like the post is gone.
IMO, you are making this more complicated than it needs to be.
LED's have come a long way. A few years ago, DIY was a good way to go. Today you can get both high PAR and good color with many. Chihiros LED wrgb-ii is a good example.
Having good spectrum is not only good for plants, it affects the way our eyes percieve the tank. Has much more impact than most realize.
That being said I am a fan of T5HO. But you can have a great tank with either.
All that being said, light is only one component of a planted tank. There is also CO2, fertilization, maintenance, and horticulture. When you see a really spectacular tank, there is a LOT more going on than the light fixture.
Just saying don't get fixated on light. Study up and pay attention to everything else as well.
Good luck with the tank and I look forward to seeing where it goes from here.
I did read about the lux to par conversion but also read that it is very inaccurate? Have you ever tried to do the conversion and check it with a PAR meter? One of the biggest problems I find is that a lot articles mentioned some kind of conversion formula, product A being better or worse than B and so on. It bugs me that none of them mention how much better or how accurate the conversions are. Having a percentage rate on error margin would greatly influence our final calculations.So another thing to do to get an estimate on par is to use a lux meter or lux meter app on the smart phone. Once you know lux you can divide by 80 to get a rough idea of par.
Also keep in mind that 1) some photos you see of crazy red plants are in fact photoshop'ed or otherwise edited. 2) Some plants you get brand new that are red have been grown out of water and have different characteristics when grown emersed. 3) The light you use should have some red leds in it not necessarily because red plants will grow more red under red light, but because red plants reflect red light so if you shine red light on them they will 'appear' more red.
The difference between running crappy leds on my shallow tank and running a twinstar were night and day as far as the vibrancy of colors were concerned. This is not because twinstar is the end all be all of lights but because it uses a good number of different colored leds and they did a good job of bringing out the different colors in my tank.
If making your own light look for leds with a CRI of 90+ to get the best out of your colors. Don't use burple. All that stuff about them being more efficient is leftover knowledge from the dawn of leds when they didn't know how to make white leds properly. It's a non issue today but people still buy burple lights because they think they are needed/better but this is not the case.
Good luck!
This is great! Thanks for all the information and links. I'll read through the articles and posts later as it is a lot to digest. The post from Hendy (#206) is a great reference point to show the difference and impact lights can have! I do not understand the Spektra link very well, is this used to create color combinations? I am guessing the idea is to have a good evenly balanced spectrum show up on the graph?A lot to unpack.
Yea high light and/or low nm spectrum (blue/deep blue/violet/uv) seem to encourage pigment formation.
Then you need enough red to "express" that pigment to you eye.
Amount of algae depends on how well the tank is balanced between light/CO2/Ferts.
I suggest you go through this a bit as a guide:
![]()
Lighting
The 2Hr Aquarist's definitive planted aquarium lighting guide, covering T5 vs. LED, K ratings, PAR values and spectrum charts. And, how to leverage lights for your aquascapes.www.2hraquarist.com
To show the difference between creating pigments and showing pigments see #206
Tubes, leds ect. the spectral composition can drastically change your "perception" of red
as long as the pigments are present.
![]()
Share Your Bulb Combo Thread
A central place to see everyone's t5 bulb combos. Post a FTS with a label saying what bulb types from to back. PAR data is a bonus and can be listed if you have it. All the following FTS are taken with a LG V30 f1.6 ISO 100 exposure 1/80 WB 5000k. The 6 bulb combos are brighter then the 4 bulb...www.plantedtank.net
so as to your DIY fixture (I assume that is a simple 55 diode circuit board for Bridgelux diodes.)
you may want to reconsider white diodes or RGB = white diodes..
A lot will depend on what you want it to look like..
White aren't the "least efficient" by much but white leds w/ blue plus yellow phosphors are the least "showy"
High CRI whites can give you a better natural look w/ out err "faking" colors.
The second graph? I can only see one graph. I did manage to get to work, I'm on Android as well I think, just added 33 6,5k daylights with 11 royal blue, 8 deep red and 6 green. I get this as a result but I don't actually know what this means.All the visible spectrum is used by plants.
Your high k diode choice is just err " color dulling".
My second chart is based on your orig. layout with ratio corrections so to be more colorful.
Though I did use plain red and blue not deep red and royal blue. Those changes would not be insignificant though.
Yes Spectra can simulate your diode choices but of course there are variables to consider including diode quality .
I can' t get it to work on android so keep that in mind.
You can use yours but I'd mix warm white and cool whites rather than rely on one k temp white. That boosts your red content.
Intensity is more important than spectrum.
Spectrum is more for looks.
Yes a generization but an important distinction.
You must have a "sun" checked on Any purple line I see is what is being used in the calculations.The second graph? I can only see one graph. I did manage to get to work, I'm on Android as well I think, just added 33 6,5k daylights with 11 royal blue, 8 deep red and 6 green. I get this as a result but I don't actually know what this means.
View attachment 1032882
Should I try to get as close to dotted line as possible?
You're right, I had "Sun" checkes in Item menu. Changed it to Cree and LED now and the graph changed to this.You must have a "sun" checked on Any purple line I see is what is being used in the calculations.
Also in " setup" change the graph from REEF to FRESH .
Currently the dotted line is the spectrum at like 10 meters in the ocean .
BEAM is generally 90 or 120.
You should eventually get something like this:
View attachment 1032886![]()
I took a look on your profile and you are definitely the man to talk to when it comes to DIY lights! Hope you don't mind me asking so many questions.You must have a "sun" checked on Any purple line I see is what is being used in the calculations.
Also in " setup" change the graph from REEF to FRESH .
Currently the dotted line is the spectrum at like 10 meters in the ocean .
BEAM is generally 90 or 120.
You should eventually get something like this:
View attachment 1032886![]()
I'm just the noisiest one..I took a look on your profile and you are definitely the man to talk to when it comes to DIY lights! Hope you don't mind me asking so many questions.
I picked plain blue over royal blue because rb is in the whites which you have a lot of.* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED Blue (470nm) x6
LED Green (530nm) x7
LED DeepRed (660nm) x14
LED CoolWhite (8000K) x22
LED WarmWhite (3000K) x11
----------------------------------------
* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 4,990 lm
Radiant flux : 18,486 mW
PPF : 86.3 umol/s
TCP : 5780 K
CRI : 95
λp : 663 nm
Color : #FFD7CE
----------------------------------------
* PERFORMANCE @ 60cm & 90° (compulsory)
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 16.3 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 4,412 lx
PPFD : 76.3 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------
Noisiest is fine if you can back it up.I'm just the noisiest one..
What one wants is dependent on a number of factors and what is important is also err "personal"
Here is a pattern that covers most of the major factors.
Area 1 is where most find appealing.. sort of like the old growlux flourescent tubes
Area 2 is more reef like but still usable as this is where your current light falls.
Area 3 is a green enhanced region that is popular with say ADA tanks i.e heavy green centric.
CRI total is only the average of the first 8 bars.
It's becoming obsolete.
Tone is what you may see on a white wall and gives an overall picture of prominent wavelengths.
View attachment 1032891
I won't produce a chart but this is what I meant by a ww/cw mix..
I picked plain blue over royal blue because rb is in the whites which you have a lot of.
Royal blues blue up a tank rather rapidly.
Mostly a matter of opinion.
You can go down all sorts of rabbit holes chasing spectrum. Even adding IR.. BUT many of these effects are species dependent and terrestrials which live in a world that is backward to water plants..Noisiest is fine if you can back it up.
By personal you mean the preferred lighting hues visible to the eye as per example from the post by Hendy you shared? That would make it difficult then... I have a vague idea of what I want. A balance between red and blue would be nice, as long as there is not too much green. When I started looking into color spectrum and the effect it has on growth I came across this study from the department of horticulture of the University of Michigan.
Apparently a 50% green based light fixture would give the best overall growth but I like dense planting so I am leaning most towards the even RBG lights.
* MIXING LISTThey mentioned this to be one the best spectrums to strive for in terms of plant growth only. Do you think this correct? You make your own lights as well right? Do your graphs look similar to this, or does it come down to personal preference again?
I never said not to use a diffuser AFAICT.You advised not to use Royal Blue as it colors up the tank blue pretty fast and it is included in the whites, of which I use a lot. Should I use less white in favor of RGB?
Also, what is your opinion on the frosted acrylic that many lights use? I want to use it because it is said they fully disperse the light but if you say it is unnecessary it save me a few bucks.
I am still new to the whole lighting discussion so it's good that I also meet people that kind of go against flow of chasing only perfect spectrum. I also need to apologize, I found a lot of answers to the questions I asked you in the articles you send me.You can go down all sorts of rabbit holes chasing spectrum. Even adding IR.. BUT many of these effects are species dependent and terrestrials which live in a world that is backward to water plants..
Red = bright under water. B= dark.
Opposite of land plants
* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
myData fluencegreen.csv x1
----------------------------------------
* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 4,000 lm
Radiant flux : 12,489 mW
PPF : 57.6 umol/s
TCP : 4260 K
CRI : 77
λp : 448 nm
Color : #FFAB82
----------------------------------------
* PERFORMANCE @ 60cm & 90° (compulsory)
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 11 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 3,536 lx
PPFD : 50.9 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------
by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
The fluence Greenhouse is a very warm spectrumSPECTRA
SPECTRA can perform the optical simulation of many required for coral breeding. SPECTRAはサンゴ飼育に必要な多くの光学シミュレーションを行う事が可能です。spectra.1023world.net
I never said not to use a diffuser AFAICT.
Color blending can be an issue under certain circumstances..
My personal lights used mostly "native" 120 degree spread of the diode itself which is pretty well blended.
If one uses 90 degree lenses the best thing is to get it high enough to blend.
Diffusers are an art in themselves.
My "RGB" use a reflector and all colors inside.
7 small diodes inside a reflector.
My personal choice is never pure RGB. It works, grows stuff and is very punchy in color.
My own preference is DeepRedRoyalBlueCyanAmberLime.
BUT it is pretty much a Specialty and expensive to build.
No harm in borrowing from other fields.
Understanding RGBA vs. RGBW in Two Simple Steps
This is my lights currently. 14W each on full but technically most would dim the red channel (3 deep reds) a bit.
Another variation uses a 405 Violet in place of one deep red.
That puck is one of the the best color rendering at 100% I've built.
The violet 3w diodes is $8 US on it's own. I wasn't planning on using it but tried as a whim.
Unfortunately it is still a one of at the moment.
View attachment 1032904
View attachment 1032905
After all of this I'll still caution you on the fact that most spectrum choices are for you not the plants.
There are MINOR tradeoff between growth and color and look.
I ' don't chase red plants but most reds either come from intensity or genetics. There are tricks like nitrogen starvation that make some plants redder and possibly iron.
Do you mean this in a way that you prefer t5 and DIY/custom LED fixtures where can easily take off and replace lights? Or do you actually prefer the diodes that can change colors?