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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I'm new here so thought I'd say hi and share an idea for a couple of sumps I had.

I know they are a bit too full, so I would lower the baffles and water levels, but what do you think of the co2 idea and the sump in general? I have implemented a diffuser in there so it starts to mix in with the bio balls like in a reactor, and the foam at the top to polish the water and finish off any micro bubbles that may not have dissolved yet by that point.

Tried to keep baffles low and minimum to prevent evaporation, but for me it's mostly the water surface that evaporates so by having the weir I can stop doing that too.

Many thanks
 

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Why so many baffles? Why not set up the foam from most porous to most fine in one chamber, and if you need another chamber for bio media (thought the foam would probably have way more then you need) one for that.
 

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A note about the heater. Mine was also in the last chamber together with the pump.

As it happened with our hard water here those heaters started developing a small build up of scale. That scale didn't stick for to long and quickly ended up in the tank - really hated the floating particles everywhere.

If I to do sump filtration again I would place the heater in chamber before the mechanical filtration happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Why so many baffles? Why not set up the foam from most porous to most fine in one chamber, and if you need another chamber for bio media (thought the foam would probably have way more then you need) one for that.
Yeah I could do that bud, fair point. I was just thinking more pressure and flow from the baffles really, but also more CO2 loss I guess so that might be an idea yeah?

Bump:
A note about the heater. Mine was also in the last chamber together with the pump.

As it happened with our hard water here those heaters started developing a small build up of scale. That scale didn't stick for to long and quickly ended up in the tank - really hated the floating particles everywhere.

If I to do sump filtration again I would place the heater in chamber before the mechanical filtration happens.
Thanks for the heads up Agra, my water is actually very soft here but it could still happen for the sake of moving it between sponges it's probably worth it!

Anybody any thoughts on the CO2 method at all?
 

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Im setting up a new sump too. Im buying Poret foam from Swiss Tropicals and placing the foam vertically like a mattenfilter but with 10ppi 20ppi then 30 ppi. in the first chamber. Im thinking about skipping out on any bio media. I love sumps, even on freshwater planted aquariums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Im setting up a new sump too. Im buying Poret foam from Swiss Tropicals and placing the foam vertically like a mattenfilter but with 10ppi 20ppi then 30 ppi. in the first chamber. Im thinking about skipping out on any bio media. I love sumps, even on freshwater planted aquariums.
Awesome! I'm based in the UK :) Will source some poret foam too.

You recon the foam will be enough bio then really? My bio balls were going to be two-fold anyway, serving as a mixing reactor for the CO2 you see, so I thought to kill two birds and act as bio as a bonus too.

Are you injecting CO2, or going non-techy? I am unsure how much CO2 I will lose.
 

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Nice design!

Hey fishy- I envy your design skills. Being able to do that sort of rendering before taking on a diy project would have helped immensely! Overall your sump looks good. There are maybe a few tweaks I'd recommend doing to the design before going forward.

The first thing I noticed was the safety issue with the heater. If the pump chamber for what ever reason empties then that heater will overheat, melt, or crack. You want to make sure where ever the heater is placed water will always be covering it, even during a situation where the pump continues to run and there is no water entering the sump. hope that makes sense.

The other suggestion is get rid of the diffusor in that tight space. Diffusors need periodic maintenance. Where you have it, getting to it might be a pain when it comes time to clean it. Id highly recommend using a co2 reactor instead.

And I will just repeat what the others have already said about the bioball compartment. You don't need it. The poret foam and wet-dry chamber is all the bio-filtration you need! Id probably put a short baffle after the wet-dry chamber with enough room for the heater.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hey fishy- I envy your design skills. Being able to do that sort of rendering before taking on a diy project would have helped immensely! Overall your sump looks good. There are maybe a few tweaks I'd recommend doing to the design before going forward.

The first thing I noticed was the safety issue with the heater. If the pump chamber for what ever reason empties then that heater will overheat, melt, or crack. You want to make sure where ever the heater is placed water will always be covering it, even during a situation where the pump continues to run and there is no water entering the sump. hope that makes sense.

The other suggestion is get rid of the diffusor in that tight space. Diffusors need periodic maintenance. Where you have it, getting to it might be a pain when it comes time to clean it. Id highly recommend using a co2 reactor instead.

And I will just repeat what the others have already said about the bioball compartment. You don't need it. The poret foam and wet-dry chamber is all the bio-filtration you need! Id probably put a short baffle after the wet-dry chamber with enough room for the heater.
Hey fishy- I envy your design skills. Being able to do that sort of rendering before taking on a diy project would have helped immensely! Overall your sump looks good. There are maybe a few tweaks I'd recommend doing to the design before going forward.

The first thing I noticed was the safety issue with the heater. If the pump chamber for what ever reason empties then that heater will overheat, melt, or crack. You want to make sure where ever the heater is placed water will always be covering it, even during a situation where the pump continues to run and there is no water entering the sump. hope that makes sense.

The other suggestion is get rid of the diffusor in that tight space. Diffusors need periodic maintenance. Where you have it, getting to it might be a pain when it comes time to clean it. Id highly recommend using a co2 reactor instead.

And I will just repeat what the others have already said about the bioball compartment. You don't need it. The poret foam and wet-dry chamber is all the bio-filtration you need! Id probably put a short baffle after the wet-dry chamber with enough room for the heater.
Hey FreshPuff - thanks man, appreciate your feedback.

I'm gonna have another go and post an update me thinks based on what I've heard - and there have been some common thoughts too over on UKAPS with what you have said. Heater I think I'll lie flat on the intake chamber to prevent said problems, and bio balls I wouldn't keep if the CO2 went. I have the Dennerle turbo co2 mixer - have you used that at all? I will look into co2 reactor and try to integrate one of those I think. Would wet/dry degas CO2 further do you think?
 

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I have the Dennerle turbo co2 mixer - have you used that at all?
Ive not used that product but I have used the ISTA WaterPlant Max Mix CO2 Reactor and the Sera CO2 Flore ACTIVE REACTOR with great success. I think they are similar to what you have.

How big is your tank btw? And what sort of flow are you looking to pass through the reactor?

Would wet/dry degas CO2 further do you think?
When I used a wet/dry it was required that seal the compartment where the trickle plate was. It does cause a lot of degassing. But if you can cover it with a lid (polycarbonate not acrylic because acrylic warps with moisture) then you should have no problem with degassing too much co2.
 

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@FreshPuff covered my initial concerns with the heaters and the diffuser location. The other thing I would suggest is to make your return chamber as large as possible. Unless you are running a large ATO or doing a continuous water change system the water level there will be fluctuating from evaporation so keeping it large buys you more time between top-offs.

I'm really liking my sump set-up. First chamber is the inflow/fish catcher. Water flows over the first baffle through some filter floss and then a 3" thick coarse sponge, then back up through a fine sponge and down into the return chamber. I keep some sponge filters and old bio-media in the return for emergencies, and the chamber is large enough to put the heaters horizontally near the bottom so I don't have to worry about them running dry. There is a photo of it in my journal in my sig.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Great question I should have mentioned that! Tanks are 22l (tiny haha so want to get all the gear out of it and increase water volume amap!) and a 75l tank, and I have a 350l in the pipeline that was going to be marine but I think will be planted also! Once I am happy my sump idea I will just copy and paste accordingly really!

Updated my sump based on comments, so first chamber is sock and heater flat on the bottom, with water that overflows, then all foams various PPI, then bio / other such as bamboo/carbon/purigen, and final one is much larger now to allow more fill and account for evaporation - and a CO2 reactor in there with a mini pump to mix and push into return pump.

I could seal with some sort of flexi rubber lid, or just lid the last chamber for the minimal gas loss?

How's that looking now fellas?
 

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Why so many baffles? Why not set up the foam from most porous to most fine in one chamber, and if you need another chamber for bio media (thought the foam would probably have way more then you need) one for that.
this is my plan for my sump. 40 Long under my 120. water enters one side then goes thru 3 2in mattenfoam filters in coard thru fine grades. then flow into a 30inch long refugeum filled with safe-t-sorb substrate and prolly wisteria. and prolly will be a fry grow out spot as well. then on thru another 2inch matten filter then to the pump and heater chamber. planning on drilling the sump in on the pump side and plumb it to a floor drain in the next room over. so when I need to change water all I need to do is toss in a hose in the display for 20-30min.
 

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I'm in on this thread, based in London uk. I've a sump systemised set up on both my tanks. I found them confusing at first, but now glad I have them.. Reason for posting is also to learn as I have ordered my CO2 regulator and looking at ideas on where I can insert my CO2?

My baffles are chamber 1 main overflow,alfagrog,coarse & medium foam with an over style baffle, chamber 2 now has maximum siporax hula hoops in a cage style crate topped with fine filter floss, and my heater positioned at an angle with another over style baffle, then a tiny under baffle to remove any bubbles in the return pump. My return pump is hard plumbed so I cannot really use an inline diffuser!!! I think a cut plastic bottle placed at the inlet of my return pump (preventing gassing off) to feed my Co2 direct into the pump my be my only option here.

Any other ideas I find I will add here later on, glad to be amongst other sump users.


Aqua oak tanks 4'x2'x2' & 5'x2'x2' both freshwater set up on apex Neptune systems.
Mortgage & Protection Adviser Full Time,
Peace
 

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Great question I should have mentioned that! Tanks are 22l (tiny haha so want to get all the gear out of it and increase water volume amap!) and a 75l tank, and I have a 350l in the pipeline that was going to be marine but I think will be planted also! Once I am happy my sump idea I will just copy and paste accordingly really!

Updated my sump based on comments, so first chamber is sock and heater flat on the bottom, with water that overflows, then all foams various PPI, then bio / other such as bamboo/carbon/purigen, and final one is much larger now to allow more fill and account for evaporation - and a CO2 reactor in there with a mini pump to mix and push into return pump.

I could seal with some sort of flexi rubber lid, or just lid the last chamber for the minimal gas loss?

How's that looking now fellas?
That last baffle isn't doing anything. Running the CO2 on a separate pump is a decent idea if there is room in the return chamber. I may give that a go myself if my new griggs reactor doesn't pan out.
 

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Id just cover the whole portion of the sump to keep the co2 in the sump with this design.

Another option is to have the water flow in the manner below. and get rid of the last baffle on the right.


Here's another example of a sump design using poret foam. I grabbed this image from the swisstropicals website. You can simply use the poret foam in a vertical manner too and forget the filter sock. There wont be as much co2 degassing and seems like its much easier to build.
 

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