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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was stupid and I added a few rasboras from petsmart last week. I got some rummy nose tetras from another pet store as well. Parameters are fine- ammonia and nitrite are zero, nitrates is around 10. 4 rasboras and 2 rummy nose have since died, they appear fine and then rapidly decline and die within 12-24 hours. Some of them have had
Some white patches on them. I am going to try and catch them all and put them in a qt tank. I am also going to get some meds for them but I'm not sure what to get specifically. Please help. Thanks.


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sounds like they have ick. If you can post pic's that would help.

Not ick. It's not spots, it's patches. And no fish are showing signs right now. They may or may not develop the patches and then they die. I tried to take a picture a few days ago of the rasbora but I couldn't get one. It's either fungal or bacterial, not parasitic. I've lost 6 fish in 4 days.


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could be neon tetra disease, it is a bastard and does not limit itself to neons.
 

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Start with doing about 30% dechlorinated water change today, and do another 20% every day until the dying stops.
Also look at every fish in your tank carefully and immediately cull any that looks to start getting sick. If it is NTD you are not going to fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Which antibiotic? And if it is ntd, if all the fish die will it remain in the tank?


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I'll bet against NTD.

How long has the tank been established? Were there any other fish in the tank prior to adding these? How did you cycle your tank or is this tank a long time established tank?

How did you acclimate your fish? Is it a planted tank? Again without pictures we need to get real descriptive about your tank. Overload us with tank information please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
These things are really hard to assess without pictures. Otherwise everyone on here is just guessing.

I know. One of the rummy nose tetras got severe tail rot in about 12 hours, or atleast it appeared like it. But honestly, before they die they aren't really showing many signs at all. Some
Of them have some white patches but they aren't big at all. Mainly on the fins. Even the patches are hard to see though. If there was anything to photograph that I was capable of capturing on camera, I would but honestly there isn't.


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'll bet against NTD.



How long has the tank been established? Were there any other fish in the tank prior to adding these? How did you cycle your tank or is this tank a long time established tank?



How did you acclimate your fish? Is it a planted tank? Again without pictures we need to get real descriptive about your tank. Overload us with tank information please.

Tank set up for about a month. Used a very established canister filter, bio additive and fish less cycled for 2 weeks( tank cycled very quickly because of the established filter). 50 gallons, planted with driftwood. Water quality is perfect as far as I can tell, I just tested it 10
Minutes ago and even the nitrates are down to undetectable by API liquid kit. I have used this test kit for a long time and I am doing the tests correctly. Before the harlequin rasboras started dying they spawned and I am currently raising the fry in the same tank. Added rummy nose tetras on Friday, lost 2 so far. Lost all harlequins from petsmart already. Cardinal tetras were introduced first, a week and a half ago. 1 of those died within a few hours of being in the tank but he looked weird in the bag and I think he got squished at the pet store being collected. I have a uv sterilizer on my canister filter, I'm going to turn that on I think.


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I would disinfect the living hell out of that setup and start over. Sorry, been in that boat too often.
Don't go to an LFS once and buy fish, go regularly. Check tanks for sick or dead fish, especially dead fish that started decaying is a sign of neglect.
Even just listless or fish appearing to be unhappy with the water. Only ever settle for the best, even if that means waiting or finding a reliable LFS that can preorder the fish for you, and of coarse proper quarantine is recommended.
Those fish are not too expensive, so you need not go overboard in this regard, unless you have other tanks with expensive fish.

The medicine probably costs more than just replacing all those fish.
 

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Sounds more like Columnaris than other infections at this point.
White patches- very typical.
Fast death- entirely possible. there are some strains of Columnaris that can kill within 24 hours.
Fin rot- Columnaris is one organism that causes fin rot.

martini, when you saw the suggestions above, did you google some images of the possible diseases? Did you see pictures of fish with columaris?

Most fish bacterial diseases are caused by Gram negative bacteria.
Erythromycin treats mostly Gram positive bacteria. It is a useful backup, in case secondary bacteria attack. It is usually combined with a Gram negative antibiotic. Example: Maracyn and Marycin II are Erythromycin and Minocyline.

A stronger antibiotic is Kanamycin, marketed as Kanaplex (I think by Seachem).

If you want to turn on the UV, go for it, but only until you get some meds. Do not run the UV with medicine in the tank, the UV is likely to break down the meds. You might follow Nordic's advise- sterilize this tank, try again with new fish. Or, just run the UV, see if that helps. Meds for 50 gallon tank can be very expensive.

I think a better use of the money is to get a 10 gallon quarantine tank set up.
NEVER add fish from ANY source directly to the main tank.
Moving sick fish to a 10 gallon for treatment will save money on medicines, too.
 

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From the white patches and how fast the fish are dying I think it's probably Columnaris. NTD is a possibility, but leaning more toward Columnaris. But as mentioned, without more description, symptoms or pictures, we are all just guessing.

There has to be other symptoms, just you might not be aware of (they may just be subtle signs).

Do any of the fish have deformed spines? Any open sores/exposed flesh that appear to be rotting/enlarging? Any ulcers? Any fuzzy/cottony white growths?


If it's Columnaris, that is a aerobic gram-negative bacteria, and Kanamycin (found in Seachem KanaPlex) is regarded as one of the best antibiotics for that. In studies though, it has been shown that the med is most effective at curing Columnaris when combined with another antibiotic, such as Nitrofurazone (found in API Furan 2, most effective at 7.2 pH or lower), Triple Sulfa (better for high pH) or Tetracycline/Oxytetracycine/Minocycline. From studies, Kanamycin combined with Nitrofurazone has produced the most successful results. To slow down Columnaris progression, cooler water temps slows it down. And I believe I have heard adding some salt also slows it down. A UV can help some with general fish health and maybe kill off some free floaters, but don't expect it to cure this outbreak, and remember to turn the UV off when you are using meds.

NTD is said to have no cure. Since you are unsure what the disease is, I would separate all fish that are showing symptoms. The recommended meds above are broad-spectrum meds and can treat a wide variety of diseases, so it has a fair chance of curing whatever the disease may be (doesn't treat everything though). Turn on the UV (stop once you are treating the tank with meds) and remove any dead fish ASAP. If other fish consume the infected fish, they will contract the disease as well. If there are ulcers and they pop, spores can spread and infect other fish.

This is all assuming it's Columnaris or NTD. It could be something else entirely different and the whole tank is infected. It could even be deaths for other reasons non-disease related (stress, poisoning, etc.). We can't really tell without more info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sounds more like Columnaris than other infections at this point.

White patches- very typical.

Fast death- entirely possible. there are some strains of Columnaris that can kill within 24 hours.

Fin rot- Columnaris is one organism that causes fin rot.



martini, when you saw the suggestions above, did you google some images of the possible diseases? Did you see pictures of fish with columaris?



Most fish bacterial diseases are caused by Gram negative bacteria.

Erythromycin treats mostly Gram positive bacteria. It is a useful backup, in case secondary bacteria attack. It is usually combined with a Gram negative antibiotic. Example: Maracyn and Marycin II are Erythromycin and Minocyline.



A stronger antibiotic is Kanamycin, marketed as Kanaplex (I think by Seachem).



If you want to turn on the UV, go for it, but only until you get some meds. Do not run the UV with medicine in the tank, the UV is likely to break down the meds. You might follow Nordic's advise- sterilize this tank, try again with new fish. Or, just run the UV, see if that helps. Meds for 50 gallon tank can be very expensive.



I think a better use of the money is to get a 10 gallon quarantine tank set up.

NEVER add fish from ANY source directly to the main tank.

Moving sick fish to a 10 gallon for treatment will save money on medicines, too.

Before I started adding fish to the main tank, I made a thread about qt tank. We use them all the time in saltwater. The general consensus is that if it isn't a wild caught fish it wasn't strictly necessary. I took that advice. I won't do that again. I was worried about columnaris as well. I have some extra tanks lying around that I was about to use for a sw qt but I guess the sw fish will have to wait. I'll pull that out and put a sponge filter in it and try and find some meds


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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
From the white patches and how fast the fish are dying I think it's probably Columnaris. NTD is a possibility, but leaning more toward Columnaris. But as mentioned, without more description, symptoms or pictures, we are all just guessing.



There has to be other symptoms, just you might not be aware of (they may just be subtle signs).



Do any of the fish have deformed spines? Any open sores/exposed flesh that appear to be rotting/enlarging? Any ulcers? Any fuzzy/cottony white growths?





If it's Columnaris, that is a aerobic gram-negative bacteria, and Kanamycin (found in Seachem KanaPlex) is regarded as one of the best antibiotics for that. In studies though, it has been shown that the med is most effective at curing Columnaris when combined with another antibiotic, such as Nitrofurazone (found in API Furan 2, most effective at 7.2 pH or lower), Triple Sulfa (better for high pH) or Tetracycline/Oxytetracycine/Minocycline. From studies, Kanamycin combined with Nitrofurazone has produced the most successful results. To slow down Columnaris progression, cooler water temps slows it down. And I believe I have heard adding some salt also slows it down. A UV can help some with general fish health and maybe kill off some free floaters, but don't expect it to cure this outbreak, and remember to turn the UV off when you are using meds.



NTD is said to have no cure. Since you are unsure what the disease is, I would separate all fish that are showing symptoms. The recommended meds above are broad-spectrum meds and can treat a wide variety of diseases, so it has a fair chance of curing whatever the disease may be (doesn't treat everything though). Turn on the UV (stop once you are treating the tank with meds) and remove any dead fish ASAP. If other fish consume the infected fish, they will contract the disease as well. If there are ulcers and they pop, spores can spread and infect other fish.



This is all assuming it's Columnaris or NTD. It could be something else entirely different and the whole tank is infected. It could even be deaths for other reasons non-disease related (stress, poisoning, etc.). We can't really tell without more info.

One or 2 of the rasboras may have had slightly deformed spines. No open sores, ulcers. If I posted pictures right now, if I could even get them to stay still and get a picture, it would show fish with zero outward signs. I do not expect the uv sterilizer to make hardly any impact at all, but I figure it won't hurt anything and can kill any fungal spores that could be contributing. And everyone keeps saying they want more info, what specific info do you guys want?


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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm gonna add some salt I think. Currently I only have marine salt mix, so I will add a few teaspoons of that, 3 probably. I found a store that has nitrofurazone.


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