The Planted Tank Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We added plants about 3 weeks ago. Everything was doing fine. Neon Tetras were being eaten by the pool comet, which wasn't alarming for the most part. Pool Comet went to fish jail. CO2 was added a week and a half ago. We added 6 more Neons to replace the 5 or so that the Comet ate. The Neons are simply not acting like neons. The zebras are slow, the white skirt/glo tetras are acting normally, the Chinese Algae Eater is normal, my rainbow shark meh, the shrimp is doing awesome. He molted yesterday, and has been moving around today like normal.

pH=7.6-7.8
kH=180ppm
GH=300ppm
nitrite=0
nitrate=5ppm
(keep in mind was a pond test kit, though I'm assuming they are similar?)

The tank temperature is sitting at 72 degrees. Is that the culprit? I didn't even realize it was so low o_O until I just checked right now. Though I'm fairly certain everything has been the same for the last few years. The Algae Eater and Rainbow Shark have been in the tank since December 2012. Is it the cold water thats affecting them? Part of me wants to assume CO2 but no one is gasping? We have the filter, air stone and a bubble wand going, so regardless I don't think there's much in the way of a lack of oxygen, but who knows.

Then on top of it turned CO2 on today, air hose popped off diffuser, rock that was near it, got hit by the suction cup popping off, was enough to make it budge, and I'm fairly certain it hit or got wicked close to the tail of my shark (he's like a dog practically). Not my day.

Ever since I put my hands in the tank to fix the rock/CO2 line, they've been a bit more active, though the Neons are still not acting normal for the most part. The danios are chasing each other, minus one, and the white skirts are being themselves. Some Neons are a little active right now, but I just feel like something is off.


Tank Setup:
40L
Biowheel 200
UGF
Large circular airstone on left side of tank, LED bubble wand with valve half open+UGF power head output on right side
11 Neon Tetras
4 White Skirts
3 Danios (had 5, comet ate 2)
Rainbow Shark
Chinese Algae Eater
Amano Shrimp
45g disposable CO2 system (piece of crap)

This is a tank thats been running non stop for years, at times it didn't even have fish in it. The BIOWheel 200 Filter is brand new, but we used the old biowheel off the other filter that died to keep the tank atmosphere the same. The Rainbow shark and Algae eater have been here for a while, the Danios and White Skirt tetras as well, the Neons are the only new guys. We got 6 from the LFS, 6 from Petco, 6 from Petsmart. Down to 11, 6 eaten, 1 died. I tried getting a look at the one that died but it seemed the rest of the tank took bites out of him.

No one seems to be showing and Ich problems, and the last parasite problem was a case of Anchor Worms on the Shark, brought in by snails. That was right when we got him, and they were pulled off, tank heat brought up, and it was all gone after we figured out how to treat it.

Please help my fish! I'd be especially devastated if we lost the Shark, especially since we've had him for so long. Everyone does still come right up to the top to eat, but still worried. On a positive note, my shrimp is happy as can be!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Did you quarantine the new neons? If not, they may have gotten your other fish ill.
Not the brand new ones, the others were quarantined, but we only have two tanks, and the comet is in the other tank. I do wonder if maybe it was Neon Tetra disease. Ever since I almost dropped the rock on the Shark (he came right up to me when I was testing water again and looks fine), he's been acting normal, same with the CAE but the one Zebra and some of the neons not so. I didn't even think of that. Are the water parameters good for the tetras? I'm not the best with all of it. But I figure if the Shrimp is doing well, it has to be okay.

If it is neon tetra disease.... do you think the other fish caught it? The dead one had bites taken out of it. So worried now.

Often the first thing an owner will notice is that the affected fish no longer school with the others. Eventually swimming becomes more erratic, and it becomes quite obvious that the fish is not well.

This is fairly interesting as they aren't schooling like they were, and the one that died was hiding under the rock/driftwood on the right side of the tank, and theres a new one hiding there as well. Should I just take all these guys out of the tank and euthanize them now? Or is it too late.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Seems a bit crowded if it is actually a 40L. The rainbow and chinese algae eater should go as they get large and mean (rainbow not usually bad but in a small tank like that it will) Why put in Co2 if you're running all the airstones? It will just dissipate the Co2 you're putting in there. Also, what about an ammonia reading?

Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
835 Posts
40 liters or 40 gallons?

also, temps definitely need to come up - that could explain the sluggish behavior
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's a 40 Gallon long. The Rainbow Shark is about as docile as it gets and is full grown, about 6" long, well over 3 years old. I could never get rid of that guy. Is like a dog in a fish tank. Will run right up to the tank and watch you through the glass, gentle as can be with the other fish too. Not very territorial.

Class A photobomber too


Chinese Algae Eater is the same size-though we keep an eye on him. The Air stones we put in mostly because we were worried about these tetras. I just turned on CO2 today to get two readings, it's been off since I noticed the Tetras acting weird. Ammonia is at 0ppm. We did just realize the heater plug got knocked out, so it's back on. We normally have the tank sitting towards 78 degrees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,566 Posts
Yeah, boost the temperature (carefully to avoid stressing the fish more) and quarantine the neons next time. Since we can't change what happened in the past, I think you should just keep an eye on the neons and get a qt tank ready if the ailment gets worse...a qt can be as simple as a food safe storage bin with an air pump, lid, and heater.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah, boost the temperature (carefully to avoid stressing the fish more) and quarantine the neons next time. Since we can't change what happened in the past, I think you should just keep an eye on the neons and get a qt tank ready if the ailment gets worse...a qt can be as simple as a food safe storage bin with an air pump, lid, and heater.
Well we are going to be picking up my 10 gallon tank today (our local petco is having it's dollar per gallon sale), and maybe ill grab an extra just in case. We have a small 5 gallon, but that's currently the Comet's fish jail until later next month when it can go in the pond. Everyone still comes to the side of the tank when I walk over, and they all still eat pretty fast, just worry is all. Would be devastated if we lost the shark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
40g is 4 times the size of 40Litres so that sheds new light, and the rainbow should be just fine. I'd bump the temp up to 77 or so, as 72 is definitely on the low side of things. It also is surprising to have 0 nitrates, as there should always be some in there, even if it just registers at 5ppm... Feed regular, and maybe do an extra water change or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
40g is 4 times the size of 40Litres so that sheds new light, and the rainbow should be just fine. I'd bump the temp up to 77 or so, as 72 is definitely on the low side of things. It also is surprising to have 0 nitrates, as there should always be some in there, even if it just registers at 5ppm... Feed regular, and maybe do an extra water change or so.
It's probably a little bit over 0 nitrates, but it's a color strip so not 100% exact. Yeah sorry about that, I always refer to the 40 gallon as 40L since it's a 40 Gallon long. The heater is going right now, just have it going up slowly. They all get fed daily, and a variety of things as well. It's just weird that everyone was doing great until the new batch of neons came in. The ones we got from the LFS seem to be the only ones that are still looking great. The one or two Petco Neons that are left (thank you comet), still look fine, Petsmart neons on the other hand, not so much. We are probably going to slowly bring the tank temperature all the way up to 85 (or maybe it's 86?) over the next week or so to check and see if it's not ick or something similar to that. I know that Rainbows are pretty susceptible to Ick and similar things, so we're going to do it as a precaution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The issue appears to be the addition of CO2 without the adding of O2.
We were only doing 1 bps, with the UGF and HOB both creating pretty strong surface agitation. We have had it off for a few days, though I notice it all hit when the new tetras arrived the other day. It might be a combination of the two, though no one is gasping or struggling for air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well a quick update:

I did a 75% water change, and found out I never plugged my heater back in after the filter went. The tank is now up to around 78-80 degrees. I also turned down the air going to the two air stones, and everyone is doing SOOO much better. The neons are actually schooling towards the front of the tank, instead of behind the plants! They have their color back now, and one looks a little out of it still, but in general everyone is looking much better.

I'm going to see if the old heater can't get the tank up to 86 degrees, as I think the shark has a little bit of Ick, though it may just be an old anchor worm scar. But overall everything looks way better. I did turn up the CO2 quite a bit, and have been leaving it on at night, and no one's gasping at all, swimming quite normally actually.

Thank you for all the help! It's so nice to see all the fish back to themselves!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Whoa, 86 degrees? Why?
If I remember correctly, it kills Ich.

It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984), [1]

I won't be able to get it to 89.5, but it allows me to take the fish out that has it, dose it with a copper treatment (shrimp in main tank), and then getting the tank to 86 will at least make it so it won't infect any new fish and/or reproduce. It helps at times. Though it's been a while since the heater has actually heated the tank up that high. Last time was for Anchor Worms. Once it gets to 86 I normally just dose with salt as well. Works for the most part lol.

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
Thought there was no signs of ich? If there's no signs and everyone is acting normal, I wouldn't increase the temp that high. Ich I'd found in every tank and with all fish, it's only when fish are stressed by some other issue that it comes to the foreground and causes problems. Turning the heat up that high could cause undue stress and cause other problems. Just my. 02

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thought there was no signs of ich? If there's no signs and everyone is acting normal, I wouldn't increase the temp that high. Ich I'd found in every tank and with all fish, it's only when fish are stressed by some other issue that it comes to the foreground and causes problems. Turning the heat up that high could cause undue stress and cause other problems. Just my. 02

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
I didn't think there was, but I saw white dots on the shark, and thought maybe. I'm going to have my BF look over him tomorrow (he's the more knowledgeable one on fish) and check on him. He does have quite a few scars, and there have been times that we've confused them for ick. Maybe I'll just leave it. Before the lights turned off the tank was reading between 78-80, which I think is pretty good for now.

I worry too much :tongue:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
78-80 is perfect, just keep an eye to make sure it doesn't keep rising too high. If you do think it's ich and decide to raise the temp to the high 80s, do it slowly, add an Air stone and black out the tank for a few days. That should take care of any ich issues.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
78-80 is perfect, just keep an eye to make sure it doesn't keep rising too high. If you do think it's ich and decide to raise the temp to the high 80s, do it slowly, add an Air stone and black out the tank for a few days. That should take care of any ich issues.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
I haven't set the heater to raise past 80 yet, it automatically adjusts itself to stay there for the most part. Though it does help when I plug it :proud:

Everyone seems a lot happier now, the neons were actually schooling today around the tank, which was a HUGE improvement over how they've been acting. I've just never seen our tank go down hill so fast, was very odd.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
It doesn't take long for stuff to get out of whack in a closed environment such as an aquarium

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top