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Finally! shrimp!

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Well, the conditions in the tank weren't gonna get any better, so we went ahead with some crystal red shrimps. This is the ten gallon I posted about a few weeks ago. Canister filtration with aged bio matrix, Purigen, 100 micron felt, and a sponge prefilter. Temp 72 degrees. Kh and gh barely measurable. Tds unknown atm, but should be pretty low. Water change 20 to 30 percent per week.




Used a homemade drip acclimator. They (7) have been in the tank since yesterday afternoon.

Many thanks to aquaviewdesign.com and dreamer_yoyo for all of your help, supplies, expertise, and of course, shrimp! Follow this tank's progress from the very beginning at: http://petshrimp.tumblr.com
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If your GH is barely measurable that will kill them (they won't be able to molt properyl). Get it up to GH 5.
+1. You cant put CRS in bad water parameters and just expect everything to go perfect. If your GH isnt up (4-6), they will not molt properly and eventually die off. Address the issue, don't ignore it and hope for the best.
 

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No, no, no Shirakura Mineral stones DO not add minerals back to fix this problem. YOu need a GH booster like Shirakura CA+, Fluval Shrimp Minerals, Salty Shrimp GH+, etc. Having the tank on Fluval substrate isn't going to magically make the water ok. You have to get the parameters up to their lacking. And I'm sorry, but Amanos and cherries are NOT CRS. CRS are much more difficult than either of those. ETA: Also FSS can buffer down GH and KH.

Don't test the water from your tap, the shrimp aren't living in your tap. Test the water in your TANK.
 

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I will keep an eye on the gh, but have had no issues with calcium deficiencies in any of our tanks yet (fingers crossed).

Calcium carbonate is KH. GH measures much more than that. KH can be 0 in a tank of CRS. GH can not. Please, please go read the stickies on how to keep CRS and get the water in the tank tested. Even if they are doing fine now when it comes time for them to molt they won't be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you for the warning. I should say that is the value out of tap. We have stupendously soft water out of our tap here, but they do jack the ph way up; by the time it gets here it is back down to 7.4 or so. In the tank I have flourite substrate to add buffer and bring the ph to 6.8. I also have a shirakura mineral stone to add in minerals for healthy molting. I will keep a good eye on that value for a while.

The shrimp are aquaviewdesign.com lines, A-S grade. Using these to guage my son's interest, and to see if my grand design will work. So far looks good. The shrimp started coloring up immediately during drip acclimation, and have been very active within the tank.

As always, advice is always appreciated! No need to reinvent the wheel, just improve upon it!
 

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Thank you for the warning. I should say that is the value out of tap. We have stupendously soft water out of our tap here, but they do jack the ph way up; by the time it gets here it is back down to 7.4 or so. In the tank I have flourite substrate to add buffer and bring the ph to 6.8. I also have a shirakura mineral stone to add in minerals for healthy molting. I will keep a good eye on that value for a while.

The shrimp are aquaviewdesign.com lines, A-S grade. Using these to guage my son's interest, and to see if my grand design will work. So far looks good. The shrimp started coloring up immediately during drip acclimation, and have been very active within the tank.

As always, advice is always appreciated! No need to reinvent the wheel, just improve upon it!
You are not paying attention. Shirakura mineral stones do not add the minerals you need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And again WHAT YOU ARE THE PARAMS OF THE TANK??:??? Your tap water parameters are moot right now.

Sorry but I'm trying to help you and you keep ignoring posts and repeating the same thing like we aren't reading yours. Please reread the posts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
While I appreciate the advice on the mineral stone, I do realize what an active substrate does do, and what kh and gh are. I have been breeding fish for 20 years, including some very hard to breed g0s from the Amazon (we were among the first to breed and ship laetacara bucklekopf aroung the country, and were the only ones with two breeding pair). What I do need is pointers on making the best possible environment for these shrimp. Much of what I am doing is a combination of what I have researched about shrimp, what I learn here, and what I have learned over 20 years of keeping aquaria.

Doubtless I will make mistakes here and there. Thanks for letting me know your preferences on additives. I will be sure to have some on hand if I need some. The whole reason for starting with lower grade crs, non pure lines is to get started and learn exactly what we need to do to maximize crs health, yields, and minimize mortality of young, developing shrimp. I have some theories in this matter. To start it is the K.I.S.S. principle.

Will update with the latest water params after today's weekly testing. After Dr. WHO though lol!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You are not paying attention. Shirakura mineral stones do not add the minerals you need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And again WHAT YOU ARE THE PARAMS OF THE TANK??:??? Your tap water parameters are moot right now.

Sorry but I'm trying to help you and you keep ignoring posts and repeating the same thing like we aren't reading yours. Please reread the posts.

Was actually an error on my part, I double posted what I thought my tablet ate! If you keep treating me like a novice I won't post the results of any of my tests. Honestly, do you have to come off so nasty? I have been keeping and breeding fish for over 20 years, some easy, some pretty tricky. Give me a bit of credit, okay? I may be disabled now, so I can't do my 15 tanks, fry, and water manipulation barrels anymore, but all that info is still there.

Like I said, I will get back to this after Dr. WHO.

I love advice, but please be respectful. I am not some newb, okay?
 

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You have been keeping fish and breeding them for over 20 years?? Wow, that is a great run, and you're still going. I'll definitely give you credit for that. :) However, um, this is shrimp we are talking about, right? Soo.. sir, you are pretty much a shrimp beginner, are you not? And she is the very experienced shrimp-keeper, so perhaps you should take her advice? Lol Just go get a water test kit! Test your water parameters and show your results here. Get your gH to 5 degrees with Salt Shrimp gH+. Then your done! Good luck. :)
 

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I would get test items, you can always assume and guess but it would be better to know at the start so there's not a problem later. Shrimp can be extremely sensitive to certain things and it's easier to trouble shoot if you already know your tank. Why learn the hard way when there's so much experience and knowledge available?

Also, people are just trying to warn you that the rocks will not mineralize the water how you think/need. It's not being picky on a brand or product, they just serve different purposes. Everyone just wants the shrimp to be healthy!
 

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Shrimp are a whole different ballpark. They aren't like anything you have ever raised with fins. that is what I have figured out. You sure went for the top of the goal post, with CRS. The most of us (just starting in shrimp) go with Cherries, because if you kill them with your newbie mistakes they aren't that expensive to replace.
Here is a good list that helped me
Gh/Kh test (So you know whether you need an up or a down Gh. These 2 control your shrimps molting. If you don't keep them in range, you'll suddenly have lots of bloody/yucky molts and they get stuck in their shell and die.) My water out of the tap is like solid rock. I use Ro and a little tap. YOU'll be amazed at the numbers.

TDS meter VERY IMPORTANT, they can only handle a certain range, and then things start literally crawling out of the substrate (had planaria outbreak) This also tells you when to do a water change. you only do them when the number rises above optimum level. They need stability more than they need fresh water.

Food-they can't eat all the fish food you have. they need calcium rich, NO copper food. A lot of regular fish food has copper as a hidden ingredient. Jake has good food :) homemade and fresh veggies that are organic. No pesticides.

3-6 month old tank well cycled, You want baby shrimp right? They eat all that biofilm that only happens in well cycled and mature tanks. Leave the light on for 12 hours, you want algae. That is the baby food. You want that green look on the back and side walls. I waited 6 whole months before adding shrimp and ottos and the population exploded. Did this help?

here is a website with your needed parameters. http://shrimpery.com/shrimps

here is the ideal parameters for CRS
Temp: 68-74°F
pH: 6.0-6.6
TDS: 80-180
KH: 0-2
GH: 4-6
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, I am a bit defensive. I have been accused of not taking water params in my tank, which I never said. Then someone DEMANDS IN CAPS that I tell them what my params are? Yet more people now think I don't even OWN ONE! For your information, gh is now sitting between 3 to 4 d gh. According to my log it seems to be stabilizing there. Also the person who bred these shrimp, is the one helping me get set up, and I have zero reason not to trust them.

I read many articles on crs. Here is what I can tell you about the collected knowledge on them: woefully incomplete, with a lot of people breeding under different scenarios. What generally follows is what has worked for THEM, not the definitive word on the subject.

This is a new realm for me (and still, to aquariasts). It was my intent to share my experience with you all. I have always welcomed advice, just don't get all pissy at me if I don't give you the information you want right away, or explain a bunch of beginning terms to me please.

All I am asking is that you not demand of me. I give info willingly, and demanding it to someone of my generation is considered very rude. It isn't nice to assume I know nothing, or lecture someone who is asking for advice.

By the way, I will never tell you all of my secrets to what I do. For that you will just have to wait for my book. I will tell you that the K.I.S.S. principle is involved, and that means if you want clean, stable water, you never screw with the water until it becomes necessary.

So we have non-pure line crs. Instead of more expensive Taiwan Bees. Why? Because this is our first venture into crs shrimp. We start with these for two reasons: 1. Hardier stock for starters, and 2. Reduces losses if we mess up. Once we have everything set for these, we can move to a more expensive shrimp line once we have worked out the kinks in our process. Wish I could afford a tds meter, but researching my local water supply plus municiple records gives me a decent idea of potential problems (mostly how much salt runoff could affect the tank, but that is about the worst of it).

Yeah, I can get defensive. But when someone asks for advice, and says thank you for that advice, do not come down on them for not immediately giving you the latest info. I was not asking anyone to please help save my shrimp or fish. I simply thought you might be interested in my progress. Again, many thanks for the tips. If you ask nicely I will provide you with what information I have. My idea in this project was to eventually make it better and easier for us all to enjoy these shrimps.

Yes, I can be defensive, but then again, all I did was double post. I am not the one demanding anything from anyone here. But it seems no matter how I try to get along in the incertebrate forum, I am greeted by several who seem more interested telling me how badly I am progressing, instead of saying I like a, b, and c, am not so sure about m, n, or o, and in my experience x, y, and z do not work. Realize before you type that you are commenting on someone's hard work. In this case 3 months of research, 2 months of planning, and even more getting set up and running. In the end, it is our project, and we answer for it, good or bad. In my 20 years in this I have never told someone that what they are doing will never work, only where I think they are on track, and off.

Maybe I am simply at the wrong site. I thought this would be a good place to learn, share my knowledge when I have some, and exchange information with other knowledgeable people. Do I need to look elsewhere? Internet is a big place, I can exchange info elsewhere? Because I really haven't felt very welcome here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Shrimp are a whole different ballpark. They aren't like anything you have ever raised with fins. that is what I have figured out. You sure went for the top of the goal post, with CRS. The most of us (just starting in shrimp) go with Cherries, because if you kill them with your newbie mistakes they aren't that expensive to replace.
Here is a good list that helped me
Gh/Kh test (So you know whether you need an up or a down Gh. These 2 control your shrimps molting. If you don't keep them in range, you'll suddenly have lots of bloody/yucky molts and they get stuck in their shell and die.) My water out of the tap is like solid rock. I use Ro and a little tap. YOU'll be amazed at the numbers.

TDS meter VERY IMPORTANT, they can only handle a certain range, and then things start literally crawling out of the substrate (had planaria outbreak) This also tells you when to do a water change. you only do them when the number rises above optimum level. They need stability more than they need fresh water.

Food-they can't eat all the fish food you have. they need calcium rich, NO copper food. A lot of regular fish food has copper as a hidden ingredient. Jake has good food :) homemade and fresh veggies that are organic. No pesticides.

3-6 month old tank well cycled, You want baby shrimp right? They eat all that biofilm that only happens in well cycled and mature tanks. Leave the light on for 12 hours, you want algae. That is the baby food. You want that green look on the back and side walls. I waited 6 whole months before adding shrimp and ottos and the population exploded. Did this help?

here is a website with your needed parameters. http://shrimpery.com/shrimps

here is the ideal parameters for CRS
Temp: 68-74°F
pH: 6.0-6.6
TDS: 80-180
KH: 0-2
GH: 4-6
Very helpful. I have some cherries in another tank lol, so I am not completely new at this. While the tank is fairly new, many of the plants (as well as the bio media) is from my 75. Bio film, some algae etc. The only thing a bit off currently is the gh is a tad low. Will get a tds meter in the future, as I need to take those readings. Then again, I want my old electronic testing suite, but it is gone, and being disabled, likely forever lol. Maybe in a few months. Right now tho its a bit rough financially. Do the cheap tds meters by those water pitcher guys work? Or do I have to save up 70 bucks for one?

Yes, I have heard the (water change by tds). I have also been told small water changes no more than 15 percent weekly, or 25 percent monthly, or 30 percent weekly, all from very successful breeders of crs. That doesn't make any of it wrong tho! Just what works for individual breeders.

Thank you very much for your advice tho. I compile it all in my research, use some of it, and save the rest until I need it. I am gonna give these shrimp thebest possible home I can given my judgement, experience, and help from many who have gone before (any fool can spout advice, but only a great fool ignores the advice given him or her). Eventually I will find the right combination for my circumstances. That may mean additives. That may mean ro watee, but I adjust no water unless I have to (and it may come to that), because it is easier to figure out what to add, then what to subtract!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
No one is calling you a newb, your being defensive. The very basics of keeping CRS is to maintain stable water conditions, few WC's, a GH of at least 4 and cold water temps. For someone who is so experienced I would think you would have done some research on the species you were purchasing. Good luck, they are not hard to keep once your parameters are right.
Umm, you are only assuming I didn't research. Thanks for the encouragement tho!
 

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There is a Very cheap meter that someone suggeted to me less than 20 bucks out the door, let me get you the name....HM Digital TDS-EZ Water Quality TDS Tester, 0-9990 ppm Measurement Range, 1 ppm Resolution, +/- 3% Readout Accuracy - Amazon.com

Just don't drop it in the tank or it won't work anymore. They make waterproof ones, but this is good, and..Shoot I can't remember if Soothing or acitydweller uses this one. Its good, cheap, works and I know when to change my water. I agree it does depend on your individual water situation. But did you know your water changes according to season? Since you are on city water, you are at the mercy of what they put in it. I lost 2 entire tanks of fish, and almost another shrimp (just switched to RO) because they decided to change whatever they put in the water, to clean the pipes for winter. They did something to the water that the Prime I was using wasn't enough. I got to watch them all die one by one and not know a reason why. Then I started keeping shrimp and realized it's the tap water. No floridian drinks out of the tap and this is why.

Is this book of yours going to be free or are you going to be charging for it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
There is a Very cheap meter that someone suggeted to me less than 20 bucks out the door, let me get you the name....HM Digital TDS-EZ Water Quality TDS Tester, 0-9990 ppm Measurement Range, 1 ppm Resolution, +/- 3% Readout Accuracy - Amazon.com

Just don't drop it in the tank or it won't work anymore. They make waterproof ones, but this is good, and..Shoot I can't remember if Soothing or acitydweller uses this one. Its good, cheap, works and I know when to change my water. I agree it does depend on your individual water situation. But did you know your water changes according to season? Since you are on city water, you are at the mercy of what they put in it. I lost 2 entire tanks of fish, and almost another shrimp (just switched to RO) because they decided to change whatever they put in the water, to clean them for winter. They did something to the water that the Prime I was using wasn't enough. I got to watch them all die one by one and not know a reason why. Then I started keeping shrimp and realized it's the tap water. No floridian drinks out of the tap and this is why.
Lol I used to live in St. Pete back when I got my first aquarium in the early 90s. Luckily where I live the water is very consistent, I know the source, filtration methods used etc., and I know in advance when changes in treatment happen. In St. Pete I wouldn't ever trust that water lol. Eventually I will likely end up with ro, because eventually the pollution will get to all our water sources and demand heavier treatment levels at the municiple level. Very glad I don't have to deal with chloramines anymore!
 

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I am sorry you aren't feeling very welcome, we are HUMAN after all and sometimes you can't quite get feeling or emotion into a typed message. Sometimes people use the caps for trying to drive a point home and aren't shouting really. Welcome to the world of tanks, my favorite is people telling me they never change their tank water (yellow as urine, fish look ready to kneel over) and the fish are fine!

I do have to ask are your going to be charging money for your book? or will it be free?
 

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Umm, you are only assuming I didn't research. Thanks for the encouragement tho!
I will agree with Oceangirl about not being able to express emotion or feeling through type. It tends to get a lot of people in trouble when it comes to text messaging everything with our phones these days. Things can be read in a entirely different tone than they were intended. I've had people think I was a complete jerk when I never in a million years meant to be.

For example, your last response to my post, "Thanks for the encouragement tho!" I read as you being sarcastic and defensive. I cannot tell if it's sincere or not and honestly at this point I do not care. Anyway, all drama aside.

In your original post you state that your KH and GH is quote "barely measurable". Now if you know anything about shrimp barely measurable GH is a big problem. This is why everyone posted as if you didn't know what your talking about. I'm sure your an excellent fish keeper, good luck with your book.

PS: TDS meters are very cheap on ebay
 

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My $7 TDS from eBay has been invaluable to me. I use it to measure changes in TDS daily as I top off water and have correlated specific tds# to gh values. It doesn't replace standard water tests, but is great to use as a simple fast test. Best $7 I ever spent for my shreemps.
 
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