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HC 'Cuba' Guru
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, I need some confirmation before I go wasting my money. I'm going to list my tank statistics, and the plants I am going to grow, and I need you guys to tell me EXACTLY what will work and what won't. Ok, here it is

Tank Stats: 29 Gallon - Fluorite Substrate - DIY CO2 - 65 Watt Coralife - and supplements including Seachem Flourish, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium 2.24 WPG

Plants: Limnophila Aromatica - Cyperus Helferi - Rotala Hippuris - Rotala Mac. Green - Pogostemon Stellata - Rosaefolia - Java Fern - Beckettii - Micro Sword - Dwarf Hairgrass - Blyxa

So please confirm with me on which plants will work, and which won't. Oh, and what about Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' -AND- Ludwigia glandulosa

Please be thorough and try to answer the entire question. Thank you
Don't flip on me, this is my last thread, lol
 

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Tank Stats: 29 Gallon - Fluorite Substrate - Standard CO2 - 65 Watt Coralife - and supplements including flourish and fert tablets. 2.24 WPG
Plants need both macros (Nitrate, Phosphate, and Potassium) as well as micros. Flourish provides mostly micros. Ideally to grow all these plants well you should pick up some source of macro ferts and read up on the EI method of dosing (from Mr. Tom Barr).

Also, what is standard CO2? If you mean pressurized CO2, how do you plan on dissolving it? A good reactor and a good amount of CO2 will keep your plants happy. If you mean DIY, then you may want to rethink some of your selections. They won't necessarily die, but it'll be tough to keep the parameters ideal and consistant, which is what a lot of the more rare and tougher to grow plants need.

Plants: Limnophila Aromatica - Cyperus Helferi - Rotala Hippuris - Rotala Mac. Green - Pogostemon Stellata - Rosaefolia - Java Fern - Beckettii - Micro Sword - Dwarf Hairgrass - Blyxa - Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' -AND- Ludwigia glandulosa
Lots of plants for a 29 and some rare ones too, but nothing that says you won't be able to grow them if you get your system in shape.
 

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HC 'Cuba' Guru
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
DIY CO2. Which ones won't do well on the DIY, because I haven't found much info on what plant do well with different types of Co2
And my main concern is the amount of light (2.24 wpg) I have been reading, and it is just barley enough...

My two center points/focuses of my tank are the Rosaefolia with a bright green contrast plant behind it, and the Limnophilia Aromatica, so if they will do ok, I can work around the others replacing them with hardier species.
 

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HC 'Cuba' Guru
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
O, and what do you mean by "in shape", I want to know so I can asses it's costs and such. Thanks for all the help
Do you mean Micros and Macros and such?
 

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Algae Eater
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The difference between DIY and pressurized isnt the type that each produce they both produce CO2. The difference is the constancy and ease of use. Either will grow plants. DIY is just more work and its sometimes hard to get the level of CO2 high enough. About 30ppm seems to be a key #

Your 65 watts is good and will grow plants just fine.

You have flourish on your list but you will also need Nitrate, Phosphate, and Potassium, check out the seachem stuff to get you started.
 

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I really want to be helpful, but one thing you have to understand in this hobby is that there are NO hard and fast rules. People can tell you what works for them and what doesn't, and sometimes it'll work for you and sometimes it won't. You are right on doing all this research, and I think with everything you have learned you will have a lovely planted tank. When I say "in shape" I mean that you provide all the conditions that plants need to thrive: good light, good ferts, good CO2.

As for your plants, I can only tell you what I've seen. For instance, anyone that I know who has grown the following plants very successfully has used pressurized CO2:
Limnophila Aromatica - Cyperus Helferi - Rotala Hippuris - Rotala Mac. Green - Pogostemon Stellata - Rosaefolia - Blyxa - Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' -AND- Ludwigia glandulosa

And I have seen these plants grown in no CO2 or DIY CO2 with success:
- Java Fern - Beckettii - Micro Sword - Dwarf Hairgrass -

I'm sure there are people out there with different experiences, and I hope they speak up and tell you what has worked for them!

Keep in mind what I'm telling you does NOT mean that you can't grow them. It simply means that with DIY CO2 you will have the best chance of success and the best luck with these plants if you are very consitant with your changing of the yeast mixture, perhaps using more than one bottle, and you find a good efficient way to dissolve it (DIY reactor or commercial reactor). Some species you might not have good luck with. If so, don't sweat it. Just find something that does work.

If you're looking for a source of plants, shoot me a PM. I have some of the ones you're looking for plus some other easy to grow plants that you might enjoy, and I can send them to you for the cost of shipping.

I hope this is helpful.
 

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HC 'Cuba' Guru
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you so much everybody, I have to go for a while, but "ill be back later with a few more questions.

Bigstick, by the way, I am basing a lot of my tank off of your 29 gallon, it is amazing. Since I am doing slightly what you are, advice from your experiences with the plants:set-up ratio would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Jen, your offer is very generous!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How do I diffuse/dissolve the CO2 by hooking up the line to my BioWheel 200. Like, where do I put the tubing?
 

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I grow Limnophila aromatica, and Blyxa pretty well with diy CO2 in conjunction with excel and Rosaefolia did good with those conditions. I have some Cyperus helferi under those conditions...it's growing but doing so very slowly.
Also I hear that success may vary with some species depending upon water hardness so you might want to check up on that.
Hope that helps
Huy
 

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BigStick, did the Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' survive since you put it in your 29gal DIY Co2 back in July? I have not had much luck with a stem I got from Fresh_Newbie a few Months ago, so I gave up on that one. It didn't die or brown, it just got stunted and would not grow or root at all. Like Jen said, the first thing you learn about this hobby is what works for one may not work for another.

CmLaracy; yet another thread about the same question, I see... please don't use the term "standard Co2"; it's DIY Co2 or Compressed Co2, those are the only "types" relevant to our discussions here. you can "hook up" your Co2 tubing to the water IN-let of your filter, however this strategy much less effective on a hanging filter than a canister filter. what you can do to keep things cheap but effective is to still get a air-stone, but mount it a few inches under the water In-let, so some bubbles float free while other get sucked in and churned up by your filter impeller.
 

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HC 'Cuba' Guru
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks, I'll get an airstone
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Now I finally know what to do with EVERYTHING, I'm so happy!! :icon_lol:
 

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Algae Eater
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BigStick, did the Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' survive since you put it in your 29gal DIY Co2 back in July? I have not had much luck with a stem I got from Fresh_Newbie a few Months ago, so I gave up on that one. It didn't die or brown, it just got stunted and would not grow or root at all. Like Jen said, the first thing you learn about this hobby is what works for one may not work for another.
I dont have DIY CO2, it grows very well in that tank, very fast!
 

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From my experience, a biowheel is not the best way to dissolve CO2. The paddles on the wheel are specifically designed to aerate the water and provide lots of surface area for bacteria to grow. The rotating of the wheel plus the splashing as the water spills back into the tank tend to outgas any CO2 that you put in the water. You'll want to try and minimize the amount of surface agitation to keep the CO2 in the water.

An airstone would work ok, but it could get clogged and requires a decent amount of pressure for the gas to force it's way through the glass beads that compose it. Should it ever get clogged, I'd hate to see the pressure build up and explode nasty yeast/sugar water everywhere.

There are lots of plans available online for DIY Co2 reactors. The Venturi made by Tom Barr and Hoppy (on this forum) is an excellent one, but an even simpler solution would be just to use a powerhead with a sponge over the intake. Run the airline into the sponge prefilter, so that every time a bubble is released it is sucked into the powerhead, shredded by the impeller into a fine mist, and spit out the other end. If you put the powerhead towards the bottom of your tank, the mist will have a very long way to rise and by the time it gets to the surface it should have quite a bit dissolved. The only thing you have to watch out for is to not put the airline too far in or you'll get suction on your bottle. In a few rare cases, it has caused the bottle's contents to spill into the tank. Making a second bottle overflow/bubble counter will prevent this from happening. Using a rigid juice bottle instead of a soda bottle also helps a lot.
 

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big; hmmm, on the first page of your 29gal profile it said DIY Co2, then on the third page you added Cuba. I guess somewhere along the line on the other pages of that thread you must of upgraded to compressed Co2. sorry to have bothered you. at least it confirms what I already expected; that Cuba needs more reliable Co2 as I told Cm in the first place.

Cn, Jen makes a good point that I neglected to mention. If you use an airstone, make sure you bleach:water 1:2 dip it every few weeks, rinse well, then dechlor:water 1:100 bathe it to makes sure you don't introduce bleach back into your tank water. In my experience, even a clogged airstone won't make a soda bottle blow from Co2 pressure, but it will deny your plants the Co2 being generated as the Co2 only bubbles out when the pressure is high enough to leech out past the clog.

If you agree with Jen's legitimate concern that your filter will outgas your Co2 instead of helping to diffuse it, then instead of putting the airstone under the IN-let, but it a few inches under the Out-let, that way the bubbles will go up then down and across your tank following your Out-let's water flow pattern. or you could simply disable that slowly turning wheel altogether. remember your plants themselves are diffusing additional Oxygen into the water, and absorbing water borne nitrates, so the aeration benefits of that wheel specifically in a planted tank may be wasted.
 

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I used to have a 25 gallon tank that even with TWO diy CO2 bottles did really poorly in that I always had algae issues. It had fluorite substrate, about the same amount of light, etc. It was also a HUGE amount of work keeping up on changing the solutions in the bottles even though I used Champagne yeast to extend the life of the solution. If you can at all afford it, I recommend going to pressurizd CO2. You would only need a 5 lb bottle which would last you 8 months probably. Don't underestimate the importance of having enough CO2 - light and CO2 are the most important things in a planted tank! Go with a cheap substrate if you need to cut corners, too many people cut corners by not getting enough CO2. You will already have CO2 issues by having a BioWheel filter but at least with pressurized CO2 you can just turn it up to compensate.

Also, just go to Greg Watson's website where you can buy several year's worth of pure nitrate, phosphate and potassium for about $20. Seachem products are good, but the cost of the Seachem stuff will be more than $20 for only a month or two supply. You just sprinkle in the dry fertilizers directly into the tank so it's very easy to use. The amount to use can be found here: WolfenxXx's Dosing Regime

At 2.24 wpg and pressurized CO2, you'll be surprized at how many plants you can grow with so little problems or maintenance needed. Welcome to the hobby!
 

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HC 'Cuba' Guru
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
How much does pressurized CO2 cost in total, anything much higher than $60 and I can't get it... now I don't know what to do again... I was going to do 2 bottles of CO2, but you guys said that that would not be enough for Rosaefolia and Limnophilia Aromatica... what would you do on such a tight budget... I can probably get pressurized CO2 in Auqust..... HELP!!
 

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Use DIY and do a low-tech tank until August when you can upgrade your CO2. Take me up on my offer of easy to grow plants, enjoy them, learn all you can, and by the time August rolls around and you have enough money for the pressurized CO2, you'll have the confidence and know-how to really do well with the harder to grow species. Don't sweat it! When on a budget, chose the plants to fit the setup instead of making the setup fit the plants :D
 

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Jen hit the nail on the head. Planted aquariums can be very expensive to setup and maintain. Better to start off slow and be successful, than to rush things and fail miserably.

Also, if you plan on trying to keep all the plants you've listed I would follow Cardinal Tetra's advice and supplement the tank with Excel. Big Al's sells a 2-liter bottle for $24 + shipping. Based on Seachem's recommended dosing schedule, 2-liters should be enough to dose your 29g tank for 87 weeks...and that's without DIY CO2.
 
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