The Planted Tank Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all Just looking for bit of advice for a filter upgrade. I plan on swapping out the stock filter on the juwel 125 rio that I have been running for the last year with a canister filter as I have been told for a planted tank running co2 it's not sufficient and I need something with better flow. I don't have a great deal of experience but I think I have narrowed it down to either a Fluval 307 or the Eheim 4+ 350. would these be sufficient or are there filters/options that are better suited? Any help would be appreciated I hope I have posted this in the right place.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,165 Posts
Before you jump to spending more money (unless it's no issue for you) - is the filter meeting its needs aside from flow? That's a ~33gal tank (to make it easier for us Americans), so you won't necessarily need a massive filter.

But about flow... are there dead spots in your tank that you notice? Could you post some photos or video to allow others to see? You may not need more flow. Or it may be as simple as hiding a tiny powerhead somewhere in your tank. Could also be as simple as getting a larger pump for your existing filtration system.

What kind of fish or other livestock are you keeping? What's the water change situation? Are you dosing ferts?

Any other details you could provide to help us nerds throw ideas at you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Before you jump to spending more money (unless it's no issue for you) - is the filter meeting its needs aside from flow? That's a ~33gal tank (to make it easier for us Americans), so you won't necessarily need a massive filter.

But about flow... are there dead spots in your tank that you notice? Could you post some photos or video to allow others to see? You may not need more flow. Or it may be as simple as hiding a tiny powerhead somewhere in your tank. Could also be as simple as getting a larger pump for your existing filtration system.

What kind of fish or other livestock are you keeping? What's the water change situation? Are you dosing ferts?

Any other details you could provide to help us nerds throw ideas at you?
Thanks for the reply a bit of back story is that I am having some trouble with algae that I just can't get ride of.

Lighting : MultiLux Led (stock) on for 7hrs split into 1hrs in the morning to feed and the rest in the afternoon
Filter : Bioflow M (stock)
Substrate : Caribsea Eco Complete
Inhabitants : 15 Neon Tetras, 1 Honey Gourami, 1 Amano Shrimp and 3 nerite snails.
Fertilizer : TNC Complete 32ml twice a week

I do weekly water changes of approx 20% and add Waterlife 6.5 buffer to the new water before adding it as my water is soft with almost no GH / Kh.

I've included a few pics of the tank below.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,998 Posts
Stats I found said your filter has a 600 liter per hour pump or 158 gallons. So your filter should be doing turn over 4.7 times per hour approximately. That's on the low end of acceptable. You could certainly go bigger if you wanted BUT....

Based on your pictures your tank desperately needs a good gravel cleaning. You should be doing at a minimum 50% water change once a week with gavel cleaning and preferably closer to 70+% water change. If its easier for you you could split this up by doing 25+% twice a week etc. Since this is a decent amount of water you definitely need a method that doesn't involve buckets. I use a python water change system but not sure what's available to you in your country. Other options include submersible pumps and a bunch of hose.

You also have a serious algae issue so dosing excel is probably also a good idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Stats I found said your filter has a 600 liter per hour pump or 158 gallons. So your filter should be doing turn over 4.7 times per hour approximately. That's on the low end of acceptable. You could certainly go bigger if you wanted BUT....

Based on your pictures your tank desperately needs a good gravel cleaning. You should be doing at a minimum 50% water change once a week with gavel cleaning and preferably closer to 70+% water change. If its easier for you you could split this up by doing 25+% twice a week etc. Since this is a decent amount of water you definitely need a method that doesn't involve buckets. I use a python water change system but not sure what's available to you in your country. Other options include submersible pumps and a bunch of hose.

You also have a serious algae issue so dosing excel is probably also a good idea.
Thanks for the reply will increase the number of water changes to twice a week 25% and start dosing with Flourish Excel.

Any input on replacement filters? think I have narrowed it down to the 3 options below but not sure if any one is better then the others.:

BioMaster Thermo 350
Fluval 307
Eheim 4+ 350

Was thinking the BioMaster would be more convienent as It comes with the built in heater. Are the sizes alright? Worried about it being too big or too small for my tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,998 Posts
Thanks for the reply will increase the number of water changes to twice a week 25% and start dosing with Flourish Excel.

Any input on replacement filters? think I have narrowed it down to the 3 options below but not sure if any one is better then the others.:

BioMaster Thermo 350
Fluval 307
Eheim 4+ 350

Was thinking the BioMaster would be more convienent as It comes with the built in heater. Are the sizes alright? Worried about it being too big or too small for my tank.
Sooo with canister filters be aware that the gallons per hour rating is not actually reality. They don't measure them with media in them or with head height. General rule of thumb is to take the advertised gallons per hour and divide it in half. So for something like the oase 350 they advertise 300 gallons per hour. Dividing it in half you get 150 gallons per hour or less flow then your internal filter. Sooooo yeah, not really an upgrade. The oase filters are really really really cool but also incredibly underpowered. You need a larger one to filter your tank.

Generally you want 4 to 8 times actual turn over of water for a filter.
 

·
Premium Member
4 aquariums, all planted.
Joined
·
60 Posts
Sooo with canister filters be aware that the gallons per hour rating is not actually reality. They don't measure them with media in them or with head height. General rule of thumb is to take the advertised gallons per hour and divide it in half. So for something like the oase 350 they advertise 300 gallons per hour. Dividing it in half you get 150 gallons per hour or less flow then your internal filter. Sooooo yeah, not really an upgrade. The oase filters are really really really cool but also incredibly underpowered. You need a larger one to filter your tank.

Generally you want 4 to 8 times actual turn over of water for a filter.
I also find that when you look at the heaters in the Oase tanks they tend to be underpowered if you don't heat the room that your tank is in warm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
devils advocate here but IMO combo units are high risk. If you lose you filter you also lose your heater.
If your Oase pump motor dies you can just move the heater to the tank. They use the same heater in their Biomaster Thermo filters that they sell for in-tank use.

I own two Oase filters, a 250 and a 600. The 600 works well for my 75g tank.

I used the 250 on my previous 25g tank and I kept it for a backup on the 75g. The removable prefilter is very big plus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sooo with canister filters be aware that the gallons per hour rating is not actually reality. They don't measure them with media in them or with head height. General rule of thumb is to take the advertised gallons per hour and divide it in half. So for something like the oase 350 they advertise 300 gallons per hour. Dividing it in half you get 150 gallons per hour or less flow then your internal filter. Sooooo yeah, not really an upgrade. The oase filters are really really really cool but also incredibly underpowered. You need a larger one to filter your tank.

Generally you want 4 to 8 times actual turn over of water for a filter.
Really? As far as it's litres per hour it looked very similar to the other 2 do they all have the same problem? Or is it just biomaster that is under powered?

BioMaster Thermo 350 // 1100 l/h
Fluval 307 // 1150 l/h
Eheim 4+ 350 // 1050 l/h

If your Oase pump motor dies you can just move the heater to the tank. They use the same heater in their Biomaster Thermo filters that they sell for in-tank use.

I own two Oase filters, a 250 and a 600. The 600 works well for my 75g tank.

I used the 250 on my previous 25g tank and I kept it for a backup on the 75g. The removable prefilter is very big plus.
Yeah figured it would be as simple as moving the heater into the tank. I will also be keeping the internal that I will be removing as a emergency back up. do you think it's worth going up to the 600 for a 33g?

I also find that when you look at the heaters in the Oase tanks they tend to be underpowered if you don't heat the room that your tank is in warm.
Tank is in a heated room also current heater is 100w with the one in the BioMaster 350 being 200w and the 600 is a 300w
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,998 Posts
Really? As far as it's litres per hour it looked very similar to the other 2 do they all have the same problem? Or is it just biomaster that is under powered?

BioMaster Thermo 350 // 1100 l/h
Fluval 307 // 1150 l/h
Eheim 4+ 350 // 1050 l/h
Yes all canister filters suffer from the same issue. Meaning a 300 gallon per hour filter is about the same power as your current internal filter. Thus you are looking for filters that are advertised between 300 to 530 gallons per hour to get a filter in the 4 to 8 times turn over per hour respectively.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,165 Posts
Massive water changes aren't necessary if you take care of your tank or aren't dosing tons of ferts. 20-30% per week usually suffices in a tank like this, depending upon the nitrate situation.

You shouldn't dose Excel unless you know it's something you'd benefit from. I don't think you'll benefit if you put in the effort to get your tank cleaned up. You'd just be adding more to the mess instead of getting to the bottom of the problem(s)with the tank.

It looks like you're overfeeding quite a bit and that lighting looks like it is possibly too strong even with the CO2 setup you're running. There's a definite imbalance.

What are your water parameters? Do you have PAR data for your light fixture?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tank Parameters

I usually do the water change on a Sunday so these are towards the end of the week

Ph = 6.8
KH = 4
GH = 8
Ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrate = 80 ppm
Nitrite = 0 ppm

As far as the lighting is concerned I have included what I found in the attachments I hope it helps.

Product Code46528
ProductMultiLux LED 80 cm – 2x590 mm
Length793 mm
Power1x590 mm DAY & 1x590 mm NATURE
Kelvin9000/6500
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Massive water changes aren't necessary if you take care of your tank or aren't dosing tons of ferts. 20-30% per week usually suffices in a tank like this, depending upon the nitrate situation.

You shouldn't dose Excel unless you know it's something you'd benefit from. I don't think you'll benefit if you put in the effort to get your tank cleaned up. You'd just be adding more to the mess instead of getting to the bottom of the problem(s)with the tank.

It looks like you're overfeeding quite a bit and that lighting looks like it is possibly too strong even with the CO2 setup you're running. There's a definite imbalance.

What are your water parameters? Do you have PAR data for your light fixture?
Requested details regarding water parameters and lighting above.

how can you tell I am over feeding? Just want to know so I can tell for future is it something specific or just the overall condition of the tank?

I've included a few more recent shots of the tank to show changes so far I have just tried to manually remove as much algae as possible and clean the gravel
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
how can you tell I am over feeding?
When there's algae it means there is excess organics and insufficient bacteria to mineralise it. This can only be due to too much organics being added through food or leaching (common in newer tanks).

A new cannister will not help the situation because it doesn't have any bacteria in it which will take time establish.

Increasing flow doesn help with any of that and is why most people will recommend water changes and cleaning.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zero1026

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
When there's algae it means there is excess organics and insufficient bacteria to mineralise it. This can only be due to too much organics being added through food or leaching (common in newer tanks).

A new cannister will not help the situation because it doesn't have any bacteria in it which will take time establish.

Increasing flow doesn help with any of that and is why most people will recommend water changes and cleaning.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
At this point it looks like I will scale back on the feedings and stick with once a day as opposed twice a day maybe? and keep up with the weekly water changes of approx 25%. I have ordered a new filter as I wanted to remove the bulky interior filter that comes with the juwel anyways. It's the BioMaster Thermo 600.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Hitching onto this thread...is a Fluval 407 overkill for my 36 gallon tank? I bought one off the basis that it's better to have more filtration than not enough filtration. I haven't put my tank together quite yet as I'm waiting for some plants to get delivered, so it's still in the box if I need to return it. Thoughts?
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top