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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those who have been entertained/interested enough to follow the discussion, this is a picture of my filters as they currently are used.

The layout is no doubt hard to follow so let me trace it out and explain a bit about why it is like this.
I move my filters from tank to tank at times and it is often not worth the time to set things in the best way at each house or tank. Some places need short while other need longer. So sometimes it is worth dealing with the small problems of doing what we are calling the "prime" in a less than ideal way. Not by the book but it works better for my overall use.
The 2075 on the left, currently has short tubing which comes straight down and straight up to the tank as the stand is an unusually tall stand. The 2217 on the right, however has a different setup so that I can run from the filter to the reactor and then to the tank.
The 2075 is set pretty well the way the book might advise and there is nothing unusual about the prime on it.
For purposes of discussion, the 2217 is far more interesting as it does have to be dealt with in a different way. To get the canister to fully fill after cleaning, I have to lift the bottom of the reactor to let the air pass on through and up to go out in the tank. The orange strap and flat bottom on the reactor are built to make that easy as this is not a new problem to me. As I have found small details to change to better fit what I do, I have changed some small points on the reactors I build. I do not like to cut the tubing short as that doesn't let it fit at other tanks or houses.
My positon is that the water in the reactor does not let the air in the canister move through and that keeps the canister from filling totally so that the impeller can work. I don't feel that there is any unusual resistance as mentioned because the filter is working before I stop it to clean and work fine after cleaning--if I tilt the reactor to drain the air/water.

Got some pictures of how your filters set so we can look for difference?
 

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Don't have a pic of mine but i can get one if needed. I just have a fountain pump i use for water changes and i just blast in the intake of the pump. Starts the prime easy. Whether it has a reactor or not works the same.
Cumbersome? Yes but works
 

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I also use a fountain pump with a foot or two of tubing to prime difficult filters. For really hard to start system run the pump until the filter is full and water is coming out of the spray bar and keep the pump running while you plug in the filter.
Other trick: CAREFULLY inhale through the outlet, pulling water through the inlet until a siphon starts.
 

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Ha ha what's wrong with doing it the old fashioned way? Or are you afraid to read the next days headlines: 'Tank proud owner poisoned by his/her own aquarium water..'
 

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The only time I seem to have to prime mine is when i clean the hoses. Otherwise I open the valve on the output then open the valve on the input and it burps while the siphon fills the canister.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Whoops!! I see the title may not have been clear enough and I didn't say enough about how this post came up. On another post we got way off the subject so to keep from totally bombing that post, I suggested we start a new post. This post was meant to be a follow up to continue the discussion in this post:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1041802-big-issue-new-eheim-could-use-quick-help.html

A recap of what we were into? I had mentioned that I find having water in the output line of canisters, whether from reactors or large droops in the output tubing can cause problems on restart priming. But as there are so often, there are different opinions on whether that is true or not. I had hoped to move the discussion over here.
My drawing as an example was this. I find that when I leave low spots in the output tube where water is left, it gives me trouble when I restart if I don't clear the water out of the output tube by lifting it. I feel having a straight line going up solves this. I also find the reactor used in the way I use it, also prevents reprime for the same reason. When water runs down the intake at the left it will pool in the canister bottom (blue)but stop before filling the can. I feel this is due to the air trapped in the can by the water (red area) in the output line.
that is where there is a difference of opinion as others feel the water is simply pushed out and has no effect.
Been there, done that? Want to throw in your thoughts?
 

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What you are saying makes sense. I run my hoses as straight as possible to avoid exactly what you are explaining and it also explains why I have no issue getting my canisters to basically prime themselves simply by opening the valves. Since the hoses are full of water and in essence vacuum locked opening the valves creates enough suction to fill the canister/ I imagine if I had loops in my lines, a reactor, or inline heater, the vacuum process would be nowhere near as efficient and I would have to manually prime my systems.
 

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I also have had problems with long runs of tubing (inlet or outlet side) causing problems with starting the siphon.
I have Fluvals, Rena Filstars and Eheims.
They all seem subject to this.
The loop (as shown in red) is the worst, but even if this line is closer to horizontal, not sagging, this still is not great.

Best has been several filters that I set up with pretty much straight vertical tubing. I prefer having some slack in the tubing so I can move the filter as needed to disconnect it when it is time to clean it, or leaving the options open to move it to another tank. However, seeing the much better behavior with the least slack in the lines I think I am going to go ahead and cut the lines shorter where possible.
 

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@Diana I had the same line of thought you do but ended up just breaking down and cutting the lines straight. Vinyl tubing is cheap enough I decided it wasnt worth the hassle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Since most of us do have slightly different needs and wants for things, I like to mention small problems of this sort and the solutions I've found as workarounds. For my tubing, I like the Eheim tubing well enough that I don't like to swap it out for what I can find local and easy. That leaves me less inclined to cut it short as I do move my filters pretty often.
Calling it a problem may be overusing the term as it is more of a thing that I need to remember to do than a true problem. Problems are those nasty things where you still have not found a solution. All it takes for me to get the prime right is to lift the tubing so that it doesn't trap the water or with the reactor, I need to rotate it upside down while it clears. When the filter refuses to pump, I suddenly remember it as a problem!
 

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Well, another way to handle it is to cut the tubing for a fairly short filter-to-tank set up, then add a mini shelf under the canister if you need to use it on a set up that would call for longer tubing.
I have done something like that, adding a couple of bricks under a can to make it fit.

A filter that is difficult to prime is also more prone to quitting. Usually when I am in a hurry and cannot stop to fix the problem. Better to set it up so these problems do not come up.
This morning while feeding the fish before work I found a filter that had quit. In this case it was a simple fix, and not part of this discussion, except that it was a bit tricky to get it going and keep it going, and sure enough, it was the one that quit.
 

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Yes. All because canisters have such terribly weak pumps. People complain about how expensive ada superjets and their iwaki pumps are and buy eheims with pathetic magnetic impellers with only 5% of the torque (I'm one of them). This means we're perpetually forced to rely on trying to get the best pressure before our filters can even do anything close to what they are supposed to. That's why I'm considering switching to a sump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes. All because canisters have such terribly weak pumps. People complain about how expensive ada superjets and their iwaki pumps are and buy eheims with pathetic magnetic impellers with only 5% of the torque (I'm one of them). This means we're perpetually forced to rely on trying to get the best pressure before our filters can even do anything close to what they are supposed to. That's why I'm considering switching to a sump.
I don't think the size of the pump will matter when we are talking about getting the filter to prime after we clean it. When the impeller is not in water, it doesn't matter if it turns or not since it doesn't pump air.
 

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No but a real pump will not be affected by hose angles, length, amount of biomedia, distance of filter to tank etc. etc. They can also expel air more effectively as long as there's just a bit of water and don't gurgle for hours
 

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Well I am wondering how my 75 feet of garden hose with no pump,no impeller,is able to empty the tank to nearly empty and carry the water through several loop's on the floor,up over the arm of a recliner,back down across the kitchen floor,and up into the sink?
All I have to do is suck on the end of the hose till water travel's over the edge of the tank and start's the trip to the kitchen.
As mentioned in the other thread regarding specific filter (eheim 2217) if your sucking on hoses to prime the thing ,your doin it wrong.
I know this to be true cause I did it wrong for a good while.
Nothing wrong with the Eheim 2217's in my view.
Cannot speak to user error other than from my own experiences.
Not everybody can drive a stickshift,does that make a manual transmission faulty?
I think not.
If you have UV sterilizer's,heater's,reactor's,etc pumbed into the filter which can restrict flow, then I can see issues.
 

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If you have UV sterilizer's,heater's,reactor's,etc pumbed into the filter which can restrict flow, then I can see issues.
Bingo. That's what having a high tech tank involves and what I expect in a filter. Especially when it's advertised as a bajillion litres per hour. If filters were like cars and advertised their horsepower too then maybe but they don't.
 

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Bingo. That's what having a high tech tank involves and what I expect in a filter. Especially when it's advertised as a bajillion litres per hour. If filters were like cars and advertised their horsepower too then maybe but they don't.
Eheim like most filters advertises their gph
264 gph for the eheim 2217 which like most filter's, drops off once filled with media.
Gallon's per hour rating for nearly all filter's is most often measured with no media in the filter .
Dirty media, and the afore mentioned devices plumbed into the filter will reduce the flow even more.
 

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No kidding.

It's like buying a car advertised as having a top speed of 180 mph but once you sit inside and put your luggage in the boot it only does 50.

Anyway I didn't mean to sidetrack this already sidetracked discussion I don't have any issues with relying on siphon. (It's not like we really have much choice anyway).
 
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