[ernest]

I was reading the composition of some fertilizers (plantex or any other) they state teh composition with some chemicals in samll amount
like
Mg - 1,40%,
Fe - 6,53%,
Mn - 1,87%
B - 1,18%
Zn - 0,37%
Cu - 0,09%
Mo - 0,05%
If they are sold by the pounds What makes the main ingredient of this fertilizers.?
adding most of the makes like 10-20% in most cases What is the remaining product that completes 100% ?
Thanks

 

[Darkblade48]

Most, if not all, of the elements you listed will not be in their free form, as this is generally not usable to plants.

Instead, they will often be found as salts (e.g. magnesium sulfate) or chelated with some form of chelator (e.g. EDTA-iron).

 

[ernest]

Thank you Darkblade
I know they are not in free form and they are in salt form like MgSo4 or ZnCl or any other but still they only account for no more than 10 20% of weigth in 1 lb
I would like to know was is the "filler" salt. I beleive it can not be EDTA because is expensive and even though is not toxic in such amount it can be.
So waht is the remaning "thing"?
for example when 1 lb of KNO3 is bought , I know there is almost 99% of a salt formed by KNO3 the rening 1 % is impurities. Same for others salt sold as the salt itself.
But when they sell the mix of traces or essential elements in salt form they only account for less than 20% at max of wight.

 

[Hoppy]

The percentages are the amount of Mg+++, for example, in the mix, not MgSO4. So, the rest of the mix is the anions, SO4---, Cl-, etc., and the chelators.

 

[ernest]

Hi Hoppy
Thanks for the info but I have the posibility to prepare as a test only some of this mix of nutrients for my plants since they only use very little amount but still it hard for me to get that the filler for this mixes are chelators because they seem to be huge amount and they can get toxic when used in such a great amount per kilogram of mass in an organism . Here is a photo of what I have next to the computer where I am writing this. As you see I have a lot of chemicals and know a little bit of how to use them ( of course only as a technical work, never as additive for aquariums). I also know that for lab work 500g of EDTA can be(2nd pic) very expensive.
https://us.vwr.com/store/search/sea...en_US/header_201610228652590.jsp.categoryForm

for example FW: MgSO4 is 120g/mol meaning there are 24g of MG and 96g of SO4 ion. if mix composition says there is 1.4% of Mg++ is because in one pound(453.5g) are 6.35 g of MG and 31g of MgSO4 which is 7% of total weight of 1 pound (numbers are aprox.)
others chemicals are even lower amounts
That leaves the remaining "thing " as Chelators only? like EDTA? or is there a chemical to "fill" this up?
Asking because I want to prepare myself to try and experiment with different things or compositions.

 

[Audionut]

There's some difference between lab grade chelate purchased in small quantities, and commercial grade chelate purchased by the ton.

 

[Maryland Guppy]

for example FW: MgSO4 is 120g/mol meaning there are 24g of MG and 96g of SO4 ion. if mix composition says there is 1.4% of Mg++ is because in one pound(453.5g) are 6.35 g of MG and 31g of MgSO4 which is 7% of total weight of 1 pound (numbers are aprox.)
others chemicals are even lower amounts
That leaves the remaining "thing " as Chelators only? like EDTA? or is there a chemical to "fill" this up?
Asking because I want to prepare myself to try and experiment with different things or compositions.

Example: I think most of the magnesium sulfate we get is heptahydrate, MgSO4.7H2O with g/mol of 246.47456
This could add to some of the weight % ???
Just a thought!

 

[ernest]

There's some difference between lab grade chelate purchased in small quantities, and commercial grade chelate purchased by the ton.

I agree, the purity is different but usually not less than 5% of the main product. So when preparing the mix will not add a huge amount to the total( i havent done any calc. on this, it is only assumption)

Example: I think most of the magnesium sulfate we get is heptahydrate, MgSO4.7H2O with g/mol of 246.47456
This could add to some of the weight % ???
Just a thought!

True. I used for the example the anhydrous compound which is 124, the hydrated form is bigger and water adds to the total weight in this case probably about 48% to the molecule and a 3-4 % of total weight of mix(1 pound).
I am not trying to make this thread a chemical point or anything about my credential as chemist (which I am not) I am really trying to find what form the bulk of those mixes to try to prepare mine.
Thanks to all

 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi All,

A lot of dry fertilizers use 'fillers' to add weight. What is a "fertilizer filler"? Its a substance that is added to a bag of fertilizer to give it more weight and/or volume. What are these substances? They can be "sand, soil, ground coal ashes, sawdust and other waste products." Now sand, soil, ground coal ashes and sawdust are bad enough in my fertilizer but what are 'other waste products'? The State of Washington did testing on fertilizers in 1999 and every two years since and found arsenic, cadmium, cobalt, lead, mercury, molybdenum, nickel, selenium and zinc and well as dioxins in commercial fertilizers; here is the State of WA database. The good news that Plant-Prod (Plantex) typically does not add heavy metals as fillers.

 

[ernest]

Hi All,

A lot of dry fertilizers use 'fillers' to add weight. What is a "fertilizer filler"? Its a substance that is added to a bag of fertilizer to give it more weight and/or volume. What are these substances? They can be "sand, soil, ground coal ashes, sawdust and other waste products." Now sand, soil, ground coal ashes and sawdust are bad enough in my fertilizer but what are 'other waste products'? The State of Washington did testing on fertilizers in 1999 and every two years since and found arsenic, cadmium, cobalt, lead, mercury, molybdenum, nickel, selenium and zinc and well as dioxins in commercial fertilizers; here is the State of WA database. The good news that Plant-Prod (Plantex) typically does not add heavy metals as fillers.

Good to know thanks Seattle_Aquarist.
I personally never used dry fertilizers for aquarium but I assume that companies that sell these products dont use that kind of fillers. Why? because I havent heard of anybody complaining of some undissolved matter in the bottom of the container when they pre-dissolve the ferts or any accumulation of matters in the aquiarium.

But your answer make me more aware that probably there is a soluble "filler".... some cheap nitrate salt, common salt, I dont know but if some of you know what comes in the mix please help us to find it
thanks to all

 

[Hoppy]

CSM was not made for aquariums. It is an agricultural trace mix, which, years ago was found to have a usable mix of the trace elements needed by aquatic plants, except for Boron. So, the original seller of fertilizers for aquariums added Boron (in what compound, I don't know) to CSM and began selling it as CSM+B. I suspect it is now made with Boron in it and sold by the manufacturer that way.

So, it may well have a filler which is not useful in an aquarium, but apparently it also is not harmful. It will be interesting to find out what it is.

 

[ernest]

CSM was not made for aquariums. It is an agricultural trace mix, which, years ago was found to have a usable mix of the trace elements needed by aquatic plants, except for Boron. So, the original seller of fertilizers for aquariums added Boron (in what compound, I don't know) to CSM and began selling it as CSM+B. I suspect it is now made with Boron in it and sold by the manufacturer that way.

So, it may well have a filler which is not useful in an aquarium, but apparently it also is not harmful. It will be interesting to find out what it is.

Yes , exactly that is what I was asking. Interesting to learn they were originally for other purpose.
Thanks Hoppy

 

[Hoppy]

CSM is now called Plantex NutriTraceTM. Here is the list of ingredients:
Plantex Nutritrace CSM (Chelated Secondary Micronutrient) Mix is a water soluble mix of secondary nutrients which can be used as a general preventative supplement or as a corrective where known deficiencies exist. Nutritrace CSM is an important component of a regular feeding program for crops grown in artificial and soilless media. Nutritrace CSM may also be used when needed for crops grown in soil.

Features
Guaranteed Analysis
Magnesium (Mg) 1.5%
Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe) 7.0%
Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn) 2.0%
Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn) 0.4%
Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu) 0.1%
Molybdenum (actual) (Mo) 0.06%
EDTA (chelating agent) 65.4%

 

[Audionut]

I agree, the purity is different but usually not less than 5% of the main product. So when preparing the mix will not add a huge amount to the total( i havent done any calc. on this, it is only assumption)

I was focusing on the cost aspect. Vs lab grade chelate, commercial chelate has quality (lack there-of) and quantity on it's side as far as costs are concerned.