The Planted Tank Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I've been experimenting with my fert's trying to to make something more specific to my tank.

My question to start out is if I leave out the kno3 do you think i will have problems with k.

My tank runs high on no3, 40ppm or maybe higher. (even with 30% PWC weekly) if I miss one and go 2 weeks i cant get it below 40 ppm at all. I want to see if by eliminating the kno3 I can burn the excess no3 to the point where I can figure out what I need to add specifically

I made up 250ml of this

k2so4 14.5g
kh2po4 2.9g
mgso4 10g

to dose 2ml per 10g

do you think I will have a k defiency? Do you think the no3 will be burned off?

I plan on doing this for a month to see what happens. I just wanted to get some input from others knowing that some of you might already do this.

any input is greatly appreciated:red_mouth
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,576 Posts
I think you are on the right track with giving it a month to see what result's are.
You can alway's add a little more K if needed (pinholes on leaves).
A month will also help you see what if anything need's adjusting with regard's to KNO3.
I might wonder though,, is the nitrate high from the tap, or is nitrate reading from possibly heavily stocked tank with perhap's a bit of excess food's?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I think you are on the right track with giving it a month to see what result's are.
You can alway's add a little more K if needed (pinholes on leaves).
A month will also help you see what if anything need's adjusting with regard's to KNO3.
I might wonder though,, is the nitrate high from the tap, or is nitrate reading from possibly heavily stocked tank with perhap's a bit of excess food's?
Thanks. There's no nitrate in my tap. I've tested everything except the water in the toilet. The tank has been running for 2 years 2 big angels, 10 neons, 1 cory and 2 other tetra's (50 gal) fully planted. I clean the filter pretty well but I don't vacuum the substrate. I believe that its just a really mature tank. I really make an effort to not over feed and I'm only feeding flake food anyway.

I was dosing 2 ppm per day (kno3) so the theory is try and run no3 down to zero and then adjust accordingly.

What I don't know is if I have enough k2so4 to make up the diffrence on the k
guess I'm gonna find out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
So this is on a 50 gallon tank? What light are you using? Any co2?

You are running very lean of ferts, you are only adding 0.32ppm K and 0.09ppm P per dose. If you are very low light and low plant mass this would probably be ok but I would think you will likely have some issues with both K and P otherwise.

Not that you have to follow these guidelines but PPS-PRO aims for 1.3ppm K and EI goes for 7.5ppm K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
So this is on a 50 gallon tank? What light are you using? Any co2?

You are running very lean of ferts, you are only adding 0.32ppm K and 0.09ppm P per dose. If you are very low light and low plant mass this would probably be ok but I would think you will likely have some issues with both K and P otherwise.

Not that you have to follow these guidelines but PPS-PRO aims for 1.3ppm K and EI goes for 7.5ppm K.
That's not what I'm coming up with. I'm dosing 2ml/10 gallons so 10ml.

My calculator says I'm at .28 ppm k from kh2po4 and 1.37 ppm k from k2so4 for a total of 1.65 ppm k and .44 ppm po4

I'm not thinking that's going to be enough myself.

co2 is at 30 ppm based on ph/kh 6.8 and 6 and drop checker is green to yellow when co2 shuts off

Lights are t5ho 54w 1 bulb for 2 hrs and 2 bulbs for 4 hrs should be a par of just under 40 at the bottom of the tank
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
That's not what I'm coming up with. I'm dosing 2ml/10 gallons so 10ml.

My calculator says I'm at .28 ppm k from kh2po4 and 1.37 ppm k from k2so4 for a total of 1.65 ppm k and .44 ppm po4

I'm not thinking that's going to be enough myself.

co2 is at 30 ppm based on ph/kh 6.8 and 6 and drop checker is green to yellow when co2 shuts off

Lights are t5ho 54w 1 bulb for 2 hrs and 2 bulbs for 4 hrs should be a par of just under 40 at the bottom of the tank
Crap, sorry missed the part about 2ml/10g, I thought you were dosing 2ml in the 50 gallon. Even that though is probably going to be too lean with medium/high light and co2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Crap, sorry missed the part about 2ml/10g, I thought you were dosing 2ml in the 50 gallon. Even that though is probably going to be too lean with medium/high light and co2.


That's what I'm thinking. I did the 14.5g of k2so4 because I thought that at 15g/250ml it wasn't soluable (sp). Do you think it will accomplish what I'm looking for as far as the no3 goes thou?

Thanks for your reply!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
That's what I'm thinking. I did the 14.5g of k2so4 because I thought that at 15g/250ml it wasn't soluable (sp). Do you think it will accomplish what I'm looking for as far as the no3 goes thou?

Thanks for your reply!
Yes I think you are good to go as far as the no3 goes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,721 Posts
Why are you adding Epsom salt? Is the GH skewed? High Ca, low to no Mg?
Plants need both Ca and Mg. If you are correcting a low GH test simply by adding Epsom salt you are not adding the Ca that plants need.
If you need both Ca and Mg, then use a GH booster, perhaps Equilibrium. That also has K, but maybe not enough.

Other than that,

I used about the same amount of K2SO4 as I would have used of KNO3 (per EI guidelines), for some tanks that used to run high NO3 from fish food, so I did not dose KNO3 in those tanks. I used K2SO4 instead.

KH2PO4 is dosed in such low amounts it is not a significant source of K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Why are you adding Epsom salt? Is the GH skewed? High Ca, low to no Mg?
Plants need both Ca and Mg. If you are correcting a low GH test simply by adding Epsom salt you are not adding the Ca that plants need.
If you need both Ca and Mg, then use a GH booster, perhaps Equilibrium. That also has K, but maybe not enough.

Other than that,

I used about the same amount of K2SO4 as I would have used of KNO3 (per EI guidelines), for some tanks that used to run high NO3 from fish food, so I did not dose KNO3 in those tanks. I used K2SO4 instead.

KH2PO4 is dosed in such low amounts it is not a significant source of K.
Honestly, I don't have a gh test and I don't really have all that part figured out yet. I have been adding mgso4 to the solution that I made for over a year so I just left it in there. I do dose csm+b as well,10ml of a 20g/500ml solution daily. Do you think I should leave the mgso4 out? I'm ordering some new test kits soon and was planing on adding a gh one in.

Thanks for your reply!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,012 Posts
If this experimenting with fertilizers is contributing to your enjoyment of the hobby, there is no reason not to continue. But, if you are feeling stressed, or are worried about the fertilizing, just switch to the dosing schedule in the tables in http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944 and spend your hobby time doing the things you do enjoy. Fertilizing rarely deserves much attention unless you like that part of the hobby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
If this experimenting with fertilizers is contributing to your enjoyment of the hobby, there is no reason not to continue. But, if you are feeling stressed, or are worried about the fertilizing, just switch to the dosing schedule in the tables in http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944 and spend your hobby time doing the things you do enjoy. Fertilizing rarely deserves much attention unless you like that part of the hobby.
Thanks Hoppy, I've read a lot of your posts and I have enjoyed them all. Experimenting is all the joy for me. All my passion for the hobby comes from that. I'm no artist and can't scape worth a thing. Changing lights, co2 and ferts keeps me thinking and lets me escape from other things for a few moments every day. It's a stress reliever. Again thank you for your reply!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,087 Posts
I'm with Hoppy on this, if you get enjoyment out of messing with the ferts then go with it, I personally have a weird (guess I would call it) knack for changing my tank out 1-2 times a year. I can start with a cichlid tank, then 4 months later change over to a planted tank, then 3 months later switch to either saltwater or cichlid tank again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,609 Posts
I thought most enjoyed growing a nice aquatic planted garden as their goal? Fear not, I got side tracked a few years myself:)

But what is your ultimate goal?

That's really the basic question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,934 Posts
I'm fairly new to ferts so get anything I say co-signed first, but with "I only feed flake food" thrown in there, I'd think a bit less of the KH2PO4 would be in order.
In a post by Zorfox on a reason for using liquid ferts (from here not a pet shop)
as opposed to dry was that in a ten g tank "you only need about less than 100th tsp of KH2PO4" which is very hard to judge/w dry ferts".
So since I haven't a clue what is needed to get the needed amount of Phosphate
and then reduce in to be "enough" with that which the flake food contributes I am asking this as much for my own learning as for this particular application here.

BTW don't kid yourself/w "it's a mature tank" cause Angel fish are in the same category as Oscars and Plecos are when it comes to waste and figure 5 oz of Angel fish produce a higher amount of waste than 5 oz of Neon's so now how many Neon's are in that tank ? Because if each of the Angels is in weight equal to 25 Neon's...that might bring up the estimate of the stocking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
I thought most enjoyed growing a nice aquatic planted garden as their goal? Fear not, I got side tracked a few years myself:)

But what is your ultimate goal?

That's really the basic question.
Hi Tom, Thanks for asking. I've read most if not all of your posts as well. I'm a big fan. I do enjoy growing nice plants that's the end goal. The ultimate goal has to do with plant deficiency's. I want to understand why and when. Create, solve or figure out what created it then solve it.

I like to grow these huge tomato's every summer. Sometimes they will turn out better then others. What I used to think were plant diseases were actually deficiency's or caused by deficiency's. Long story short this experiment has more behind it then just the fish tank. Since I find growing things overwhelmingly interesting Its nice to be able to do it year round and having a lush tank is a nice side effect.

Thank you again Tom it's a pleasure.

I'm fairly new to ferts so get anything I say co-signed first, but with "I only feed flake food" thrown in there, I'd think a bit less of the KH2PO4 would be in order.
In a post by Zorfox on a reason for using liquid ferts (from here not a pet shop)
as opposed to dry was that in a ten g tank "you only need about less than 100th tsp of KH2PO4" which is very hard to judge/w dry ferts".
So since I haven't a clue what is needed to get the needed amount of Phosphate
and then reduce in to be "enough" with that which the flake food contributes I am asking this as much for my own learning as for this particular application here.

BTW don't kid yourself/w "it's a mature tank" cause Angel fish are in the same category as Oscars and Plecos are when it comes to waste and figure 5 oz of Angel fish produce a higher amount of waste than 5 oz of Neon's so now how many Neon's are in that tank ? Because if each of the Angels is in weight equal to 25 Neon's...that might bring up the estimate of the stocking.
HI Raymond, I don't think it matters if you use liquid or dry on any size tank. Personally I just like liquid better. I'll let you know on the po4 maybe in about a month. I'm thinking that's where it's going to need to be thou I tried less and it didn't work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,934 Posts
So this is for me then. If you will can you tell me what it is that the KH2PO4 is
going to change or perhaps what signs to look for if it is lacking as I also was cautioned to limit it's use by another person from this forum but I still don't know what lack of or overdoing it symptoms are.
I only have about 3-4 months on EI light now and before that it was only incomplete store bought liquids. But I also have limited my tanks to 3 or 4 types of plants only to make things easier to diagnose. Plus one is but starting to grow in so very little plant mas in that tank yet.
I'm heading out to pick up a much better(I sincerly hope) brand of bulb in 650nm to replace one white bulb. So now I will have better light but is it a downward tradeoff
because of loosing the rest of the spectrum in that white bulb which will be replaced ?
It does work that way with actinic... 1 6500K + 1 actinic is less than 1.5 X 2 6500K bulbs. But enough about bulbs so what symptoms do you look for to identify KH2PO4
shortages or overdoses ? Others who read this may also want to know this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
So this is for me then. If you will can you tell me what it is that the KH2PO4 is
going to change or perhaps what signs to look for if it is lacking as I also was cautioned to limit it's use by another person from this forum but I still don't know what lack of or overdoing it symptoms are.
I only have about 3-4 months on EI light now and before that it was only incomplete store bought liquids. But I also have limited my tanks to 3 or 4 types of plants only to make things easier to diagnose. Plus one is but starting to grow in so very little plant mas in that tank yet.
I'm heading out to pick up a much better(I sincerly hope) brand of bulb in 650nm to replace one white bulb. So now I will have better light but is it a downward tradeoff
because of loosing the rest of the spectrum in that white bulb which will be replaced ?
It does work that way with actinic... 1 6500K + 1 actinic is less than 1.5 X 2 6500K bulbs. But enough about bulbs so what symptoms do you look for to identify KH2PO4
shortages or overdoses ? Others who read this may also want to know this.
With regard to the po4 I couldn't really say. I only know enough to be dangerous. po4 deficiency's make older leafs turn brown at the ends and fall off, also can cause GSA but there are many people who would be better to ask including most of who replied on this thread. I can let you know at the end of my month trial how what I'm doing goes thou. I also think it really depends on what type of plants you have and how many.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,934 Posts
That how many and what kind thing seems to fit. Will be waiting for your results as I very much limit it in my tank(s).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
I've also read that too little PO4 can contribute to GSA (there are other factors too). All I know is I upped my dose of it on my lowish light tank & my GSA was greatly reduced & now almost non-existent. It may just be coincidence that the increase in PO4 reduced the GSA .. plants grew more & other things changed so can't prove it one way or another. I'm not dosing so much that it will hurt anything so might as well keep doing what seems to be working.

Another of my tanks has been getting a lower ratio of PO4 & it is getting bad about GSA so I'm going to try upping the dose in that tank just to see what happens. It's a rounded acrylic tank so it's a pain to scrap algae off it without scratching it.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top