Erythromycin does not treat BGA / cyanobacteria

34682 Views 22 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Kubla, Dec 3, 2018

tlarsen

Discussion Starter · Oct 30, 2016

Although cyanobacteria/BGA has nothing to do with algae, this still seemed the most appropriate forum to post in. I've spent more money than I'd like to count on treatments for BGA, and none have worked. Changing nutrient levels doesn't work either - none of the suggestions available have in fact made any difference (nitrates, phosphates, flow rates, oxygen, black outs, etc).

This post is to point out that cyanobacteria is gram negative, and the recommended antibiotic treatment if all else fails is erythromycin, which targets gram positive bacteria. No wonder my treatments have had zero effect on the cyanobacteria, but do negatively affect other aspects of the tank! Why on earth has this myth been perpetuated that erythromycin can be used to treat cyanobacteria? Is there no available antibiotic for planted tanks that treats cyanobacteria (gram negative)?

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

mistergreen

· #2 · Oct 30, 2016

They are gram positive.
https://prezi.com/1s8wn4yrq0cv/cyanobacteria-grampositive-bacteria/

But I don't recommend treating BGA with antibiotics. It's a waste of money and you'll create erythro resistant strains of bacteria.

The easiest way to rid of BGA is turn off your lights and clean as much as you can, then reduce your light intensity when everything is clear.

tlarsen

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 30, 2016

Uh, no, they are gram negative

Blackouts do nothing. When I take extra plant cuttings (clean them of all visible cyano) and stick them in a bucket of water in a dark closet, the BGA grows like crazy.

mistergreen

· #4 · Oct 30, 2016

Oh, right.. I looked into it more carefully, the BGA cell wall is that of gram negative..

Well, cleaning and controlling the light worked for me.

WaterLife

· #5 · Oct 30, 2016

From what I've read, BGA (Cyanobacteria) found in freshwater aquariums is typically gram negative.

Erythromycin does treat mainly gram positive, but it does also treat some gram negative.

There is speculation that Cyanobacteria is a easier to kill bacteria via antibiotics.

Whatever the case, going off of the numerous successes killing off BGA with Erythro, I would lean toward it infact being effective.
I am uncertain if results are dependent on certain water parameters to be effective (I haven't heard of many failures).

In any case, I would only use antibiotics as a last resort in fear of creating immune bacteria/super-bacteria (which you may have?).

Another option is Chemiclean that claims to at least not use the Erythromycin antibiotic. I've only heard success with it.

houseofcards

· #6 · Oct 30, 2016

Erythromycin worked for me when I had BGA.

For some reason it didn't work for you, but to come out with a title Erythromycin does not treat BGA / cyanobacteria is very misleading since there are countless testimonials showing how it is effective against BGA.

It is not a myth, there is no conspiracy theory with all the hobbyist stating it's effectiveness.

Reactions: 4

Riza1990

· #7 · Oct 30, 2016

I've had 100% success using Ultralife Blue-green Slime Stain Remover. I'm honestly not sure how it works, but it completely cleared an outbreak that had spread through all of my tanks. It had no negative effects on fish or plants, and didn't hurt the tank's biofilter one bit (that was the most important part for me). After I had found what caused my outbreak I still couldn't get rid of it even after trying almost every recommended solution out there. Found that product and was blown away. It takes about 5-7 days to do its work, but after a week every tank was cleared of bga.
Of course you need to know what caused the outbreak so it won't return again once it's cleared, but I really can't praise ultralife enough.

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Reactions: 1

John Wong

· #8 · Oct 30, 2016

Once I encounter MASSIVE outbreak of cyanobacteria in my tank after 2 weeks outstation. My entire tank were TOTALLY covered with dark color slime. I remove as much as possible (they recover very fast),dose with potassium nitrate and turn on air pump and did a one week black out.

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tlarsen

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 30, 2016

I'm very frustrated with products that do no state their exact ingredients. It seems crazy to me to throw something into your tank without knowing what it is. I've tried 'Sliminator', which doesn't state ingredients, and if anything, it seems to feed the BGA even further.

I hear that erythromycin works for some people. This is strange since it is not broad spectrum and is intended to treat gram positive bacteria, which is not BGA. I really wonder what is available to treat gram negative - maybe ultralife is one, but again, I want to know what it actually is.

Dosing extra nitrates and limiting light (even long blackouts) has zero impact for me.

Two other possibilities are that I have been sold expired or fraudulent erythromycin, or that somehow I have an extremely resistant strain. But again, the known mechanism of gram positive action does not match with cyanobacteria

York1

· #10 · Oct 30, 2016

boyd chemiclean works on cyano for me. Maybe red clay......

Riza1990

· #11 · Oct 30, 2016

tlarsen said:
I'm very frustrated with products that do no state their exact ingredients. It seems crazy to me to throw something into your tank without knowing what it is. I've tried 'Sliminator', which doesn't state ingredients, and if anything, it seems to feed the BGA even further.

I hear that erythromycin works for some people. This is strange since it is not broad spectrum and is intended to treat gram positive bacteria, which is not BGA. I really wonder what is available to treat gram negative - maybe ultralife is one, but again, I want to know what it actually is.

Dosing extra nitrates and limiting light (even long blackouts) has zero impact for me.

Two other possibilities are that I have been sold expired or fraudulent erythromycin, or that somehow I have an extremely resistant strain. But again, the known mechanism of gram positive action does not match with cyanobacteria

I completely understand that. I was unhappy with the lack of ingredients list as well. It ultimately came down to whether the potential benefits outweighed the risks, and for my particular situation they did. I figured I'd share my experience to at least throw another option in the ring for you. And I wish you luck in finding something that works for you! I remember how frustrating the battle against BGA can be.

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WaterLife

· #12 · Oct 30, 2016

Read my post above. Erythromycin is effective against some gram negative bacter, even though it mainly effects gram positive.

Boyd Chemiclean keeps their ingredients secret to avoid other's copying their formula, but I've only heard positive results with it and it doesn't use Erythro.

Reactions: 1

pauliewoz

· #13 · Oct 31, 2016

Another vote for chemiclean.

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MtAnimals

· #14 · Oct 31, 2016

Riza1990 said:
I've had 100% success using Ultralife Blue-green Slime Stain Remover. I'm honestly not sure how it works, but it completely cleared an outbreak that had spread through all of my tanks. It had no negative effects on fish or plants, and didn't hurt the tank's biofilter one bit (that was the most important part for me). After I had found what caused my outbreak I still couldn't get rid of it even after trying almost every recommended solution out there. Found that product and was blown away. It takes about 5-7 days to do its work, but after a week every tank was cleared of bga.
Of course you need to know what caused the outbreak so it won't return again once it's cleared, but I really can't praise ultralife enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

another +1 for the Ultralife.It's the most economical to use,and the simplest.Erythro does work,but it takes 5 day treatment and no water changes.If the tankis bigger than 10 gallons,it gets expensive in a hurry and the BGA comes back as soon as it's gone.
I always notice BGA appearing if I have any sort of plant die off.Seems like the BGA eats the organic matter.The Ultralife says it contains enzymes,and I think they must eat whatever compounds the BGA lives on.
An interesting anecdote,I had seed shrimp appear in a tank that was getting BGA,and when they appeared ti disappeared.Maybe a co-incidence.

John Wong

· #15 · Oct 31, 2016

tlarsen said:
I'm very frustrated with products that do no state their exact ingredients. It seems crazy to me to throw something into your tank without knowing what it is. I've tried 'Sliminator', which doesn't state ingredients, and if anything, it seems to feed the BGA even further.

I hear that erythromycin works for some people. This is strange since it is not broad spectrum and is intended to treat gram positive bacteria, which is not BGA. I really wonder what is available to treat gram negative - maybe ultralife is one, but again, I want to know what it actually is.

Dosing extra nitrates and limiting light (even long blackouts) has zero impact for me.

Two other possibilities are that I have been sold expired or fraudulent erythromycin, or that somehow I have an extremely resistant strain. But again, the known mechanism of gram positive action does not match with cyanobacteria

Did you increase oxygen level?

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Rinfish

· #16 · Oct 31, 2016

Using erythromycin worked really well for me when I had BGA underneath my substrate. It began to creep up and on top of my ground cover, so I used erythromycin in addition to black electricians tape along the bottom to block out light from the substrate. Worked like a charm, haven't seen it since.

It might be that you have a resistant strain, so i'd go with the other suggestions of doing a blackout or other chemical solutions that were suggested.

So not so much that its a myth, just not always 100% effective. =) Good luck in treating it! I'm dealing with some hair algae introduced by some marimo balls, not so pleasant either haha.

torque6

· #17 · Nov 4, 2016

BGA was the reason why I left the hobby many years ago. Tank was running very well for almost 2years, then it came. Started in the corner of my tank, then it slowly creep up the substrate, onto my HC, ferns, wood, then on everything. Dose erythromycin with black out, but it always comes back after 2-3 months, even though my nitrates were consistently up. Went on for the remaining 1.5 years losing countless fish and plants in the process. Decommissioned the tank and found a thick layer of BGA between the ADA substrate. So I bleached the tank and gave up finally.

BGA is not an algae. It is a bacteria. It is not something that can live harmoniously in your tank, providing food for shrimps, catfish like as algae.

Oddly, I only had BGA after introducing taiwan mosses to my tanks. These were on 2 separate occasions. A nano tank and a 1FT cube.

Reactions: 1

John Wong

· #18 · Nov 4, 2016

torque6 said:
BGA was the reason why I left the hobby many years ago. Tank was running very well for almost 2years, then it came. Started in the corner of my tank, then it slowly creep up the substrate, onto my HC, ferns, wood, then on everything. Dose erythromycin with black out, but it always comes back after 2-3 months, even though my nitrates were consistently up. Went on for the remaining 1.5 years losing countless fish and plants in the process. Decommissioned the tank and found a thick layer of BGA between the ADA substrate. So I bleached the tank and gave up finally.

BGA is not an algae. It is a bacteria. It is not something that can live harmoniously in your tank, providing food for shrimps, catfish like as algae.

Oddly, I only had BGA after introducing taiwan mosses to my tanks. These were on 2 separate occasions. A nano tank and a 1FT cube.

My tank consistently got minor amount of bga between front glass panel and substrate especially sand, but they never spread. I think when substrate expired(caking, devoid of nutrients or water flow etc), BGA will start to spread. My worst algae outbreak is BGA where only few plantlets of hairgrass survive. That is because I left it unchecked for 2 weeks.

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lksdrinker

· #19 · Nov 4, 2016

tlarsen said:
I really wonder what is available to treat gram negative -

There are gram negative antibiotics out there. I beleive Maracyn 2 (or maybe just Maracyn) is gram negative. From what I recall thats the difference between regular maracyn and maracyn 2.....one is gram positive and the other gram negative. I think Furan 2 is also good for gram negative as is Triple Sulfa.

IUnknown

· #20 · Nov 5, 2016

Worked for me. The reason it kept coming back in my tank is that it turned out my light was at 150 par. I moved the lights up and got things to about 50 par and everything is balanced.

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