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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I'm going to make an endler tetra patio bowl with 20 gallons planted. I was wondering how many endlers I could put in there (male and female mix). The water temp is going to be around 65-75 during the whole year. And with those would you recommend any tank mates? Or none at all? THANK YOU IN ADVANCE :)

Hello, I'm going to make an endler tetra patio bowl with 20 gallons planted. I was wondering how many endlers I could put in there (male and female mix). The water temp is going to be around 65-75 during the whole year. And with those would you recommend any tank mates? Or none at all? THANK YOU IN ADVANCE :)
Also would it be better to do a mix of genders or all males or females? ty
 

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So uhhh....first of all, Endler's aren't tetras. They're livebearers (common name is "Endler's livebearer"), and incredibly closely related to guppies (P. reticulata).

I would start with 8 fish. If you want to breed them, then a mix of 3M:5F should work well. If you want to keep them at the same colony size, then you'll want to buy either all males (far more colorful) or all females (far more large).

You can certainly keep Endler's with other tank inhabitants, but it depends on what you're looking for. Endler's provide a lot of color and activity, although they're small.
 

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Hello, I'm going to make an endler tetra patio bowl with 20 gallons planted. I was wondering how many endlers I could put in there (male and female mix). The water temp is going to be around 65-75 during the whole year. And with those would you recommend any tank mates? Or none at all? THANK YOU IN ADVANCE :)
65 is pretty low for endlers. There are some folks that report keeping them that low, others say that when they try they die. /shrug so your mileage will vary.

If it were me I would keep a species that does better in cold water. White Cloud Mountain Minnows are pretty common and do well in cold water. Ricefish is another one that is commonly kept in the exact condition you are planning. They can be hard to find in the states (though they are everywhere in Japan). Still they can be found through places like aquabid.

Possible tank mates include cherry shrimp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So uhhh....first of all, Endler's aren't tetras. They're livebearers (common name is "Endler's livebearer"), and incredibly closely related to guppies (P. reticulata).

I would start with 8 fish. If you want to breed them, then a mix of 3M:5F should work well. If you want to keep them at the same colony size, then you'll want to buy either all males (far more colorful) or all females (far more large).

You can certainly keep Endler's with other tank inhabitants, but it depends on what you're looking for. Endler's provide a lot of color and activity, although they're small.
I know I just said that sorry.

65 is pretty low for endlers. There are some folks that report keeping them that low, others say that when they try they die. /shrug so your mileage will vary.

If it were me I would keep a species that does better in cold water. White Cloud Mountain Minnows are pretty common and do well in cold water. Ricefish is another one that is commonly kept in the exact condition you are planning. They can be hard to find in the states (though they are everywhere in Japan). Still they can be found through places like aquabid.

Possible tank mates include cherry shrimp.
I know of someone who lives right near me and he keeps his endlers outside so I think they would be fine.

So uhhh....first of all, Endler's aren't tetras. They're livebearers (common name is "Endler's livebearer"), and incredibly closely related to guppies (P. reticulata).

I would start with 8 fish. If you want to breed them, then a mix of 3M:5F should work well. If you want to keep them at the same colony size, then you'll want to buy either all males (far more colorful) or all females (far more large).

You can certainly keep Endler's with other tank inhabitants, but it depends on what you're looking for. Endler's provide a lot of color and activity, although they're small.
Could I do 2M:6F? Or is 3M:5F better? Also, would you keep others with the endlers? I am really looking for something that is small, hardy, coldish water and wont eat Endler fry. If not I wont keep them with anything else. And whats the max population beforeI have to start taking some and selling them?
 

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The initial m/f ratio doesn’t matter after a month or so, because the offspring will be ~50/50%. In my experience, the population growth isn’t easily graphed. Females seem to have small first time litters with some still births common. I think this is because they often become gravid before they are finished growing to their full size themselves. Kind of like teenage pregnancies, it isn’t really good for them. But, as the females mature, and with successive litters, to a point, the litter sizes increase and the percentage of viable fry rises. So, while logic tells us at first that growth should be a standard exponential curve, the actual graph can go off the charts soon. Remember, Endler’s do not eat as large a percent of their offspring as do guppies or other livebearers. In short, you can’t depend on the population remaining in check without outside intervention, i.e., removing a portion of the offspring or introducing a very hungry predator (kidding!). As to the maximum population, it is driven as much by filtration as available space. Malaysian Trumpet Snails might help some with keeping the substrate clean, but I haven’t tried them myself. Just remember that fish poop increases as the fish population increases. Even if you’ve got the nitrogen cycle handling the cycle well, there will still be solid waste buildup.

I love Endler’s, and they adapt well to a wider range of temperatures than many tropical fish. But if you’re going to keep mixed gender populations, you might find yourself with lots of offspring you can’t get sell or give away. If that happens, please euthanize humanely. I recommend clove oil as the euthanizing agent.
 

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Could I do 2M:6F? Or is 3M:5F better? Also, would you keep others with the endlers? I am really looking for something that is small, hardy, coldish water and wont eat Endler fry. If not I wont keep them with anything else. And whats the max population beforeI have to start taking some and selling them?
You could do 2M: 6F, which would be better than 3M: 5F (only recommended bc the males are colorful). The only thing that I can think of that is coldish water tolerant that won't eat endler fry would be something like an Otocinclus catfish, or a hillstream loach. For the otos, I think that 65 is pushing it a bit (66-67 would be better).

At some point, the colony will self regulate, or simply crash. My opinion is to start taking out fish once you have around 100 or so. You don't have to count them, but if you can count a few clusters that add up to 10/25 or something (ex. ~10 clusters of 10, or ~4 clusters of 25), then that's when you should start cullling. Or at the very least separating males from females so you don't have more babies than you can handle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You could do 2M: 6F, which would be better than 3M: 5F (only recommended bc the males are colorful). The only thing that I can think of that is coldish water tolerant that won't eat endler fry would be something like an Otocinclus catfish, or a hillstream loach. For the otos, I think that 65 is pushing it a bit (66-67 would be better).

At some point, the colony will self regulate, or simply crash. My opinion is to start taking out fish once you have around 100 or so. You don't have to count them, but if you can count a few clusters that add up to 10/25 or something (ex. ~10 clusters of 10, or ~4 clusters of 25), then that's when you should start cullling. Or at the very least separating males from females so you don't have more babies than you can handle.
100 in a 20 gallon? Ok?

The initial m/f ratio doesn’t matter after a month or so, because the offspring will be ~50/50%. In my experience, the population growth isn’t easily graphed. Females seem to have small first time litters with some still births common. I think this is because they often become gravid before they are finished growing to their full size themselves. Kind of like teenage pregnancies, it isn’t really good for them. But, as the females mature, and with successive litters, to a point, the litter sizes increase and the percentage of viable fry rises. So, while logic tells us at first that growth should be a standard exponential curve, the actual graph can go off the charts soon. Remember, Endler’s do not eat as large a percent of their offspring as do guppies or other livebearers. In short, you can’t depend on the population remaining in check without outside intervention, i.e., removing a portion of the offspring or introducing a very hungry predator (kidding!). As to the maximum population, it is driven as much by filtration as available space. Malaysian Trumpet Snails might help some with keeping the substrate clean, but I haven’t tried them myself. Just remember that fish poop increases as the fish population increases. Even if you’ve got the nitrogen cycle handling the cycle well, there will still be solid waste buildup.

I love Endler’s, and they adapt well to a wider range of temperatures than many tropical fish. But if you’re going to keep mixed gender populations, you might find yourself with lots of offspring you can’t get sell or give away. If that happens, please euthanize humanely. I recommend clove oil as the euthanizing agent.
Ok I was planning to sell most. And add a bunch of snails.

100 in a 20 gallon? Ok?
You could do 2M: 6F, which would be better than 3M: 5F (only recommended bc the males are colorful). The only thing that I can think of that is coldish water tolerant that won't eat endler fry would be something like an Otocinclus catfish, or a hillstream loach. For the otos, I think that 65 is pushing it a bit (66-67 would be better).

At some point, the colony will self regulate, or simply crash. My opinion is to start taking out fish once you have around 100 or so. You don't have to count them, but if you can count a few clusters that add up to 10/25 or something (ex. ~10 clusters of 10, or ~4 clusters of 25), then that's when you should start cullling. Or at the very least separating males from females so you don't have more babies than you can handle.
Would you add any tank mates or would it not be worth it? I was thinking of either otos as you said and or snails
 

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I have endlers and guppies as feeders breeding in my unheated musk turtle tank and my tank is in a drafty area with the ambient temp being around 67°F and I've never had a problem. I usually wind up giving hundreds away to people to feed their cichlids. Trust me, you can have 100 fry in a 20G and barely notice they are there. Doesn't take them long to grow, though and that's when trouble can start if you can't get rid of them. I, personally, like keeping only males as they are so pretty and active. Females are "grey mouse" fish that really aren't too aesthetically pleasing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have endlers and guppies as feeders breeding in my unheated musk turtle tank and my tank is in a drafty area with the ambient temp being around 67°F and I've never had a problem. I usually wind up giving hundreds away to people to feed their cichlids. Trust me, you can have 100 fry in a 20G and barely notice they are there. Doesn't take them long to grow, though and that's when trouble can start if you can't get rid of them. I, personally, like keeping only males as they are so pretty and active. Females are "grey mouse" fish that really aren't too aesthetically pleasing.
Ok, I think im going to breed them and sell them, any certain types that are good? And also wouldnt males show their color even more with females, for showing off?
 

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There's honestly more of a change in personality than a change in color, from my observations. I have only kept inbred once upon a time over many generations ago wild caught feeders. I have no clue on the specific variations if you are looking to F line breed- that's way above my knowledge of endlers but I hope someone else can help you there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There's honestly more of a change in personality than a change in color, from my observations. I have only kept inbred once upon a time over many generations ago wild caught feeders. I have no clue on the specific variations if you are looking to F line breed- that's way above my knowledge of endlers but I hope someone else can help you there.
I found something and Im going to cross tiger endlers and santa maria endlers which are both k types
 
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