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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone know if there is a canister filter i can use on a 90 gal that will pump return water up 9 feet? The filter is gonna be located a floor below the tank.
 

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Maybe a sump instead with a really good pump on the return?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks for the response. The sump idea actually dawned on me while I was at a LFS checking out reef tanks. I might even plant the sump "tank" and put it on an opposing lighting cycle to even out ph and oxygen level changes. What do you think?
 

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You do know that the head pressure is the difference between the water level you are pumping from and the water level you are pumping to. If you are pumping out of your tank and back into it, the head pressure is 0. Basically every pump can do this and does, even if it is 9 ft below the tank level.
 

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Head pressure doesn't effect a canisters circulation pump being a closed loop but the head pressure could make the seals leak.
 

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What is head pressure

Head pressure doesn't effect a canisters circulation pump being a closed loop but the head pressure could make the seals leak.
Head pressure is the difference between the water level you are pumping from and the water level you are pumping to. If you are pumping out of your tank and back into it, the head pressure is 0.
BUT!!! as you state, if the pump is very much below the level of the tank, the system pressure can be very high and the seals may leak!
It may be that no canister has a system pressure that high!
I don't know if manufacturer's give that information?
 

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Head pressure doesn't effect a canisters circulation pump being a closed loop but the head pressure could make the seals leak.
It's a closed loop, but the pump still has to push the water up the other side. So, are you saying it's like an elevator where the motor has to be strong enough move the car but the counterweight means that the motor doesn't have to lift the whole weight?
 

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It's a closed loop, but the pump still has to push the water up the other side. So, are you saying it's like an elevator where the motor has to be strong enough move the car but the counterweight means that the motor doesn't have to lift the whole weight?
Exactly true. The elevator and pump only have to overcome the friction of the system.
 

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There is exactly as much water weight pushing down the back side as the motor has to push up. The only difference would be the additional friction caused by the extra length. Some of this could be offset by moving up to the next size hoses.
 

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Just so happens I'm currently going through an E&I (Electrical & Instrument controls) course related to my job so the fundamentals on flow systems and pressure has been raining on me for the last two weeks. LOL.

OP, your concern should be water pressure gauge, pressure at atmosphere, meaning not in a pressurized vessel. Your canister is not pressurized, at least 98% of those sold in the hobby aren't.
The static pressure on the canister seals will be based on a constant of 1 psi for every 27.71" of water height above the canister housing @68°F.

Placing the canister 9 feet below the tank would place 3.8975psi on the assembly. When a canister filter is placed below a tank within a stand the static pressure would be (i'm guessing) about 3 feet, so 1.299psi.
Your proposed situation would be triple the normal pressure I would think the filter was designed to hold. :icon_roll Would the seals hold??? I have no idea,,, but a leak @ 4psi will surprise you at how much it will spray rather than drip LOL.
 

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It's a closed loop, but the pump still has to push the water up the other side. So, are you saying it's like an elevator where the motor has to be strong enough move the car but the counterweight means that the motor doesn't have to lift the whole weight?
Think of it like a hose that you're siphoning water out of the tank with, but once the hose is filled up, you put its outlet back in the tank as well, with the hose entirely full. Nothing happens to the water in the tube because it doesn't lose energy by flowing into the inlet. The only difference is that this siphon hose has a box in the middle filled with filter media. It still doesn't siphon because there is nowhere for the water to fall to.

The pump in the filter pushes the water through, but it only has to lift the water a distance equal to the difference in heights of the tank's water level and the outlet, assuming it's above water (the water level a second time if the outlet is below the water's surface.)

A regular pond pump is going to have a head of 6-8 feet with almost no flow near maximum height, and a high head pump is going to cost you.

This might be one of those situations where a DIY canister really is the best option. With the canister body made from PVC and using proper fittings (not cleanouts and plugs like you see fairly often) and using a pump with good threaded fittings, there's no reason it should ever leak. You'd need to find a pump that can be operated out of water, or perhaps have a container of water that the pump resides in for cooling it. Just an idea. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The filters and their associated pumps are not designed to be used in the way I first wanted to. In fact, I spoke to someone at Eheim and was pretty much told as much. Even as I was contemplating my original set up, I was concerned about leaking seals and increased friction. Therefore, I have settle on the idea of the "planted sump" with my heat and filtration located there with an Iwaki or similar pump sending water to the main tank upstairs and returning to the sump via an overflow. As mentioned, the lighting cycles would be on an opposing schedule with co2 only during the day ( co2 production during the night in the main tank should satisfy the needs of the "sump tank" while it is lit at night.Additionaly, this will lower the co2 in the main tank at night .)
 

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An eheim 2262? but I would recommend a sump with a small pond pump.
It looks like this is correct the Eheim 2260 max is 12 feet plus so the 2262 should be even greater but they did not list the stat, also the Fluval FX5 max is 10.8 feet so it can be done.


Can you help out with "why you need to do this"??
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here's what I am thinking. 75 gal, main planted tank and a 30 gal (or more) remote ( down stairs ) tank. All equipment ,including filters (2) and heaters (2), will be in the remote tank,which will also be planted. The remote tank is basically a sump, for lack of a better word. Water will be pumped up to the main tank with a small pond pump or something similar. Water will return to the sump via an overflow in the main tank.The tanks will be on opposing lighting cycles thereby lessening ph and o2 swings and increasing water volume. C02 will be run during the day ( minimally due to the production of co2 coming from the sump tank which will be dark during the day ). The co2 produced at night in the main tank will be used by the sump tank. The sump tank will be set up first, with faster growing plants like hygrophila, vallisneria and such. Once established and grown in, I will hook the sump tank up to the main tank and start planting it. My hope is that the sump tank plants will keep excess nutrients to a minimum during the main tank grow in and keep algae down. I will probably stock the sump tank exclusively with shrimp and the main will be a fully stocked community . That's it. Your thoughts, other than Im out of my mind , are encouraged:hihi:
 

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thanks for the response. The sump idea actually dawned on me while I was at a LFS checking out reef tanks. I might even plant the sump "tank" and put it on an opposing lighting cycle to even out ph and oxygen level changes. What do you think?
this is very intriguing someone in my local club has something like this and swears by it, though the difference is minimal he liks it and water changes are rare unless he wants to do them, I would also add a sump is the way to go, with more than one return pump, you don't want a pump failing without a backup at that head, just have the second work with a float switch where it turns on when water hits a certain level, flotec has a utility pump very similar to what I am suggesting and can handle the head.
 
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