[chayos00]

Hey folks! I've almost got my 6' 125g tank up and running and I'm needing some lighting assistance. I've done several days of going through threads about different peoples DIY LED solutions. Initially I was looking at CREE LED's, but I think I've settled upon wanting to use Bridgelux Vero 18's. Possibly these ones. Bridgelux BXRC-56G4000-F-24

Some posts I've been reading are:
LED Build, 526 Watts (Vero LEDs and Colored LEDs) *Updated 2015-05-25*
DIY Bridgelux Vero 18 LED build
O2surplus's 6' New LED Build

So the one thing in common is they are all using these Vero 18's which seems to be a good starting point LED, as I'm wanting to keep this as low cost as possible at the moment as well as I'm not going high tech on this tank at this time. So no CO2 for now, one day that may change when I get more money and used to running a larger tank with having 1 current kid and one baking in the oven at the moment.

Here's what I was thinking at the moment. I was thinking of 8 Vero 18's as I've got a 6' tank that has a single divider in the center. I'm not sure what the light spread on these LED's are, but figured 2 at each location spread out front to back to give as much light spread as possible, so that will be determined by how wide of a heat sink I need or can get for a decent price. Unless I do two narrow long ones. But I was thinking of one like this one (link), bascially a 6" wide one @ about 62" long would be just about $110 USD. I will probably used forced air cooling with some PC fans if something like this heatsink gets hot to the touch.

I was thinking of possibly getting some colored LED's to be able to tune the color of the lights, but as money is tight and this tank setup isn't cheap so far (no plants or fish yet) spreading out the costs would be good. I thought of some clusters of RBG and or also UV, not sure, got more reading to do on that side of things.

However the next thing I need to figure out is what I need to drive those Vero's. I found on RapidLED their LED university and know understand how LED's are driven. With just the Vero's I was looking at using this driver. Mean Well HLG-320H-C1050B

So far parts cost are as follows, no shipping or tax included yet.

LED's - $116.64
Driver - $99.00
Heat sink - $107.88
Total - $323.52

This costs more than I want at the moment, but if it gets me a quality setup that will last for a while, this would be worth it. As the lights are tunable in the aspect of adjusting the current can bring the lumens up or down.

Based on the following site. Taking the lumen per sq in

So 72" x 18" = 1,296 sq inch

With keeping it a low to medium light tank with no CO2, I would need 12-20 LSI so I would be in a range of 15,552 - 25,920 lumens overall. Or based on 8 of these lights 1296 - 3240 lumens per LED. That would give me 495ma - 865ma for the system to give me these ranges. If you maxed out the driver that would give you 3860 per LED or 30,880 overall lumens for what I'm sure would be a CO2 setup, if that could even tame the algae. LOL

Lighting LSI Plants you can grow
Very low light 7 - 11 you can grow some plants
Low light 12 - 17 you can grow a fair amount of plants
Medium light 20 - 25 you can grow most plants
High light 28 - 32 you can grow all aquarium plants
Very high light 33 + you can grow all aquatic plants with no doubt

So with all this said, anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Maryland Guppy]

So with all this said, anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

Stay away from the high voltage driver by meanwell.

Controller 12 bit 5v PWM @ StevesLEDs.com $70 free shipping.
Fully functional, most likely will not find for less.
HurricaneX I believe, think it has 16 channels available.

BlueAcro.com 4-driver boards @ @23 each, run each Vero18 on it's own driver. $46 total for drivers.
Buy them @ 1000mA version.

Amazon.com 36VDC power supply 400watt $36, gives you some room to add colors later.

Your LEDs & sink are @ $225 already.

New total of $377

You will have a controller with features.
Lower safer voltage levels, and room to grow for adding colors.
Just my opinion.

 

[jeffkrol]

Yea, I second the large driver 1)puts all your eggs in one basket and 2)no flexibility..i.e multi-channel ore color addition..

Each Vero can run off one LDD-H.. And all can be run w/ a 36V power supply.. In this case, and to account for future expansion, probably around 10A-ish..
Personally I'd drive the Vero's @700mA-ish
1000mA is fine as well..700mA may save you from fans..

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMt5PRBMPTWcaTWeSxpmncu0L/IWPcfVhi4=

10 for $52..($43.84 for 8.. might as well go 10 at this point. )
2 of these..
LDD-H-4S Driver Board - Rapid LED
$32...
Why? Has removable pull down jumpers..
ps
$40
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - Rapid LED
$115 w/ infinite flexibility..
now you can run 8 channels or 1 channel any type of LED (well common types)

 

[chayos00]

Thank you both for the input! I wasn't sure about the driver and being able to dim the tank, I thought that mean well one was adjustable, but I didn't look at the specs of it. I see now it's a constant current driver now, not adjustable. Plus I saw it as a simpler design of just one component to control instead of multiple smaller items. For additional color circuits I was thinking of the smaller mean well drivers if I added more, but I gather with the items listed these will allow me more freedom.

When I get back on my PC tomorrow I'll look into the driver setups you guys mentioned to get a better understanding of them.

So the number of the Vero's doesn't seem too much? The heatsink too massive? Figured having at least 1" tall fins would be better than some of their cheaper smaller ones.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[jeffkrol]

Your Meanwell one is adjustable.. and everything talked about implied constant current drivers..
Your orig. is just "all in one" (AC to DC conversion and then regulation) vs power supply (ac-dc conversion) + driver (regulation)

"our" suggestions don't really save money, just adds abilities..

Heat sinks are a whole "art" in themselves..

As to "too much".. well

The "warm white" leds are only being driven at 300ma or 10% of their rated current capacity. The "cool whites" are at 1000ma or 33% of capacity. With 6 cooling fans and 6' of aluminum, the heat sink never even feels slightly warm to the touch.

6 foot 200gal tank..12 Vero 18's..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/603658-o2surpluss-6-new-led-build.html

 

[chayos00]

Again thank you guys for the info so far. I've done some looking and comparing of items. I've composed the following cost for things.

LDD setup:
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
Mean Well LDD-700H $52 for 10 (2 spares) or $43.84 for 8
LDD-H-4S Driver Board $32 for 2. Or do I really need the fans to cool things with this and instead get LDD-H-4 Driver Board $30 for 2.
If I go with the 4S driver board then I would need 1 or 2 of these (I put down the 9v output one for quieter running fans if I used them) Mean Well SCW05B-09 Or the 12v version Mean Well SCW05B-12 Both are $16.32 each.
So a total of $154.26 for 10 drivers and 2 12v or 9v controllers.
Or $111.46 with the 8 drivers and the H-4 driver boards. I could always use a 12v wall wart style PSU for fans, or one of my old CPU PSU's I have.

Looks like LDD's have a number of different current drivers I could pick too! 300ma, 350ma, 500ma, 600ma, 700ma, 1000ma, 1200ma, & 1500ma. I was thinking probably something in the 500-700ma range to keep the lumens under control for a low - medium setup.

BlueArco Setup:
https://blueacro.com/acroiq
AcroIQ LED Driver - Basic 4 channel (PWM only) - 700ma version @ $45.98 for 2
Or AcroIQ MicroDriver with adjustable 400-1000ma @ $59.96 for 4
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
So a total of $83.60 w/4 channel driver or $97.58 for the adjustable current one.

SteveLED's Setup w/LDD's:
LDD DRIVER ARRAY - 8X DRIVERS - $11.99
Mean Well LDD-700H $52 for 10 (2 spares) or $43.84 for 8
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
Total w/8 drivers - $93.45

For an LED controller, this seems to have lots of features and isn't too bad of a price.
HURRICANEX LED CONTROLLER $69.99
Not sure if this would be needed for control of all 8 vs a 4 channel setup doing each front and back LED as a pair. HURRICANEX 10V PWM CONVERTER - 16 CHANNEL VERSION! $36.99


Down to decision time! Cost vs functionality vs reliability. So between the LDD, BlueArco, and SteveLED's besides cost is there any reason why you would go with one versus the other? To me it seems they all have PWM control for dimming.

 

[Maryland Guppy]

Down to decision time! Cost vs functionality vs reliability. So between the LDD, BlueArco, and SteveLED's besides cost is there any reason why you would go with one versus the other? To me it seems they all have PWM control for dimming.

Glad to see the research, many do not investigate all options.:grin2:

No PWM converter is needed all LDD's or blueAcro are 5V PWM.
LDD's on boards do not need any cooling, blueAcro drivers will need heatsink mounting.

HurricaneX is only 4 channels.
Can you divide your 8 Veros into 4 channels, most definitely.
One PWM output can drive @ least 4 or more LDD's.
If adding colors is in the future, use two channels for white and the other 2 for 2 colors.

Get LDD1000's, why not? You will have PWM dimming.
Vero18 I think are tested @ 1000mA.

All of the suggested drivers will need a controller for dimming.

Fan control, this is where I skimp to the utmost.
I use a wallwart 12VDC power supply and usually run two fans in series to keep them very quiet.
I have been know to put 4 in series as long as heatsink runs cool.
Run them on a $4 HDepot timer during light cycle.

Hope this helps!

I am also sure JeffK will chime in too.

Something to think about(MTS) multi-tank syndrome.
If you are like me I have several tanks running from 1 controller.
I bought the StormX that has 16 channels for like $92 and a case for $10.
If more tanks and LED builds are in the future, something to consider.

Does your tank have a canopy?
The reason I ask is I have 5 heatsinks w/fans and a 12VDC plug in.
I offered in this threadhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9617905-post25.html
Now these won't stretch the length of your tank but each would hold two Vero18's I recon.
They are free as long as someone pays shipping.
Just thinking about saving a buck if you have a way to mount them.

JeffK do you think these heatsinks would accommodate the Vero's?

 

[chayos00]

Glad to see the research, many do not investigate all options.:grin2:

No PWM converter is needed all LDD's or blueAcro are 5V PWM.
LDD's on boards do not need any cooling, blueAcro drivers will need heatsink mounting.

HurricaneX is only 4 channels.
Can you divide your 8 Veros into 4 channels, most definitely.
One PWM output can drive @ least 4 or more LDD's.
If adding colors is in the future, use two channels for white and the other 2 for 2 colors.

Get LDD1000's, why not? You will have PWM dimming.
Vero18 I think are tested @ 1000mA.

All of the suggested drivers will need a controller for dimming.

Fan control, this is where I skimp to the utmost.
I use a wallwart 12VDC power supply and usually run two fans in series to keep them very quiet.
I have been know to put 4 in series as long as heatsink runs cool.
Run them on a $4 HDepot timer during light cycle.

Hope this helps!

I am also sure JeffK will chime in too.

Something to think about(MTS) multi-tank syndrome.
If you are like me I have several tanks running from 1 controller.
I bought the StormX that has 16 channels for like $92 and a case for $10.
If more tanks and LED builds are in the future, something to consider.

Does your tank have a canopy?
The reason I ask is I have 5 heatsinks w/fans and a 12VDC plug in.
I offered in this threadhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9617905-post25.html
Now these won't stretch the length of your tank but each would hold two Vero18's I recon.
They are free as long as someone pays shipping.
Just thinking about saving a buck if you have a way to mount them.

JeffK do you think these heatsinks would accommodate the Vero's?

Oh I'm a research-a-holic! LOL Part of what took my stand build was analysis paralysis as I call it! Takes me forever to make a decision on doing something as I'm always over researching things till I get so deep, I can't decide what to do.....

I saw the StormX and the Hurricane and features seemed similar except for price, I'm sure I obviously missed something like you mentioned with the 12 more channels of the Storm, but I wasn't sure how the HurricaneX converter for 16 channels worked into it all, but I guess if it did make it 16 channels that's about the same price as the storm. The part about the controllers that interests me is the sunrise/sunset feature and having something to control the dimming/brightness of the system to accommodate whatever plants I end up with and their lighting needs. Plus one day be able to drive them bright enough to handle a CO2 setup that I would like to do.

For the "drivers" you would keep to the higher rated amperage ones and just use the dimming abilities of a driver to keep the lights lower as needed vs keeping them lower through current limitation of the LDD's?

The MTS thing, I know my wife's already put her foot down on that and having any more tanks in the den besides the 125g, she already wants me to get rid of the 10g on the desk when I get the big one up. Oh the one thing I forgot to add is I built my stand to handle a 6'x2' tank for one day to be able to upgrade to! LOL So these lights may have to be upgraded for that when the time comes.

I have a 15" or so tall canopy, if you click on my 125g build in my signature you will get to see it. I'm currently trying to think of what I would need to do to mount a heatsink in the space in the canopy. I do have a few buddies who weld, so I may have one of them make me a bracket that would mount to the back of the stand and angle out over the tank to hold something. Nothing in the works yet, as I'm trying to get the setup holding water first. Which I'm working on plumbing this weekend for the sump.


Sorry for all the questions, as you can probably tell I'm a techie guy who likes researching to make sure I'm getting what I need the first time and not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ..... etc time. I learned a long time ago a cheap setup isn't a good lasting one, well.... that all started with buying tools for me. LOL

 

[Maryland Guppy]

HurricaneX converter for 16 channels worked into it all, but I guess if it did make it 16 channels that's about the same price as the storm. The part about the controllers that interests me is the sunrise/sunset feature and having something to control the dimming/brightness of the system to accommodate whatever plants I end up with and their lighting needs. Plus one day be able to drive them bright enough to handle a CO2 setup that I would like to do.

For the "drivers" you would keep to the higher rated amperage ones and just use the dimming abilities of a driver to keep the lights lower as needed vs keeping them lower through current limitation of the LDD's?

I have a 15" or so tall canopy, I'm currently trying to think of what I would need to do to mount a heatsink in the space in the canopy. I do have a few buddies who weld, so I may have one of them make me a bracket that would mount to the back of the stand and angle out over the tank to hold something

HurricaneX converter converts the 5V PWM to 10V PWM, we have not specified anything in your build that requires 10V PWM. I don't know where the 16 channel thing comes from. Unless it is made to work with controllers other than the HurricaneX 4 channel.

Sunrise & Sunset and per channel dimming is really awesome. With 12 bit dimming lighting transitions never seem stepped, they are smooth and unnoticed. The cloud cover and lightning I turned off in the StormX.

Keeping the higher rated LDD's will be fine, especially if your future could move to CO2.
Dimming via PWM fixes all this and doesn't alter the spectrum when dimmed.

Check out the thread I mentioned for the heatsinks.
They are available for just the cost of shipping. 2 Vero18's could mount on each/fan required.
Hoping @jeffkrol will chime in with heatsink thoughts/ideas.
They would save you money if you want them.

 

[jeffkrol]

Amount of heat sinking is just a product of current and diode characteristics.. Pretty much a hit and miss thing..
Pretty sure the massive experience ones are generally overkill for most normal needed led density for freshwater lighting..

Consider what is considered (and supposedly tested) a good passive heat sink for a single Vero18:

Key for passive cooling is surface area, wide channels for air, black anodized and contact area and mass..6 ounces of al per chip

Active cooling, well trial and error is really best..

I have a hard time justifying large linear heat sinks for COB's Seems like a waste, though not sure if there is a real cost differential..

https://northerngrowlights.com/products/sst105passive-heatsink-kit?variant=20678863684

This is for a Vero29..but 8 would still be close to $100.

 

[Maryland Guppy]

The reason I ask is I have 5 heatsinks w/fans and a 12VDC plug in.
I offered in this threadhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9617905-post25.html
Now these won't stretch the length of your tank but each would hold two Vero18's I recon.
They are free as long as someone pays shipping.
Just thinking about saving a buck if you have a way to mount them.

JeffK do you think these heatsinks would accommodate the Vero's?

@jeffkrol I am offering these for the cost of shipping.

 

[chayos00]

Again thank you guys for the info so far. I've done some looking and comparing of items. I've composed the following cost for things.

LDD setup:
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
Mean Well LDD-700H $52 for 10 (2 spares) or $43.84 for 8
LDD-H-4S Driver Board $32 for 2. Or do I really need the fans to cool things with this and instead get LDD-H-4 Driver Board $30 for 2.
If I go with the 4S driver board then I would need 1 or 2 of these (I put down the 9v output one for quieter running fans if I used them) Mean Well SCW05B-09 Or the 12v version Mean Well SCW05B-12 Both are $16.32 each.
So a total of $154.26 for 10 drivers and 2 12v or 9v controllers.
Or $111.46 with the 8 drivers and the H-4 driver boards. I could always use a 12v wall wart style PSU for fans, or one of my old CPU PSU's I have.

Looks like LDD's have a number of different current drivers I could pick too! 300ma, 350ma, 500ma, 600ma, 700ma, 1000ma, 1200ma, & 1500ma. I was thinking probably something in the 500-700ma range to keep the lumens under control for a low - medium setup.

BlueArco Setup:
https://blueacro.com/acroiq
AcroIQ LED Driver - Basic 4 channel (PWM only) - 700ma version @ $45.98 for 2
Or AcroIQ MicroDriver with adjustable 400-1000ma @ $59.96 for 4
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
So a total of $83.60 w/4 channel driver or $97.58 for the adjustable current one.

SteveLED's Setup w/LDD's:
LDD DRIVER ARRAY - 8X DRIVERS - $11.99
Mean Well LDD-700H $52 for 10 (2 spares) or $43.84 for 8
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
Total w/8 drivers - $93.45

For an LED controller, this seems to have lots of features and isn't too bad of a price.
HURRICANEX LED CONTROLLER $69.99
Not sure if this would be needed for control of all 8 vs a 4 channel setup doing each front and back LED as a pair. HURRICANEX 10V PWM CONVERTER - 16 CHANNEL VERSION! $36.99


Down to decision time! Cost vs functionality vs reliability. So between the LDD, BlueArco, and SteveLED's besides cost is there any reason why you would go with one versus the other? To me it seems they all have PWM control for dimming.

Thank you guys for the info on the heat sink aspect, but that part is my least concern with this build if I go with the 6" x 62" setup with 1" tall fans. I feel that setup would work best for for what I'm going with as that way the heatsink would be usable with any future changes to an LED setup.

Thank you for the offer of the heatsinks you have, but I think I would rather stick with one that is just a single heatsink to deal with hanging due to my canopy design idea.

My biggest concern is the drivers for the lights themselves. Like I posted in what I quoted on here there seems to be 3 ways I could go but not really sure which ones would be the least hassle. It sounds like the blue Arco would need heatsinks on the drivers which I would probably stay away from and go with one of the LDD setups. But would the SteveLED setup be better or the RapidLED one be better? I guess if one is untested by either of you the one used and confirmed working would be best.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[jeffkrol]

You just mount the drivers to the LED heat sink in the case of the acros'.. not really an issue..

Personally I'd stick w/ the ldd-s for one simple reason.. Can take a higher voltage so you can run more smaller diodes off one channel.
not a terribly great reason.
I do like adj. drivers esp. w/ COB's but that is also fairly "me" specific..


AcroIQ requires soldering wires onto the pwm contact and one mA


All the acro are "open" units unlike the potted LDD's..another consideration..
Meanswells and a "board" takes up a lot more space
Flip a coin..

The ideal driver for Vero's would be adjustable from, say, 300mA to 2000mA.. and capable of handling up to 56V to cover almost all Vero types..

 

[Maryland Guppy]

If this was my DIY light I would choose the LDD's and an 8up board.
LDD's run cool to the touch and can be enclosed in just about any project box etc...

 

[chayos00]

Thank you guys these were the responses I was hoping for about which you guys would use. But yeah these LDD drivers would be great if they could have a current adjuster in them! I saw someone's build where they used a small PC tower to install all the parts of the LED power and control systems. I might have to find a small cheap tower as well to mount all this stuff in an enclosed space.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[jeffkrol]

Thank you guys these were the responses I was hoping for about which you guys would use.

I would get this from o2surplus..

 

[chayos00]

I would get this from o2surplus..

What is that? A different custom LED driver board he makes? Does he have a website or just a user on this forum?

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[jeffkrol]

Just a user.. PM him..I suspect w/ the Holidays it may take a bit..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...brainstorming-multichip-vero18-help-me-3.html

 

[chayos00]

Message away to him. On the plus side, I got some funds from Christmas money! I've done some calculating on the heatsink abilities, it seems that the one I have linked that is about 6" may run about 120°F or so based on a heatsink calculator I found online. Wish those things didn't cost so much being so large!

 

[chayos00]

Just a user.. PM him..I suspect w/ the Holidays it may take a bit..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...brainstorming-multichip-vero18-help-me-3.html

Waiting sucks! LOL Wish he would take a look at my PM. It's making me debate about just getting another one of the LDD PCB's, but I'd honestly rather wait to see what he's got. I really want to order parts, but I don't know what I can safely order without getting some sort of a duplicate or something.