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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I initially posted this on NanoReef, but Lingwendil suggested that this would be a more suitable forum for my project, so here I am. :)

So, I have a Juwel 180l (200l now - 52g) mbuna tank (40" long, 17" wide, 20" deep) that's currently running the original T5 lighting (~100W) that came with it. My plan is to upgrade it to LED through a DIY project that will hopefully transform into something more. The aim is to create a unit that's upgrade-able and usable on a salt-water reef tank without a complete redesign.

After spending countless hours reading as much as I could, I decided to get one of those cheap eBay LED lights, gut it and use it as housing. Second step is deciding which LEDs to run and how to arrange them. As I don't have a planted tank, PAR is not really an objective right now, my main focus being emphasizing the colors of the fish (yellow, orange, blue and purple), while being able to create something similar to a full day-cycle, simple weather effects and also have that blue dimmed light on during the night. With all that in mind, I was thinking of a fixture with 2 rows, 15 LEDs per row. I run 2 x 54W Juwel T5 bulbs now (Juwel HiLite Marine 14000K and Juwel HiLite Day - 8000K) so I definitely like colors that are more towards the cooler side of the spectrum, but as I said, would like for my light setup to be able to create different moments throughout the day and also some weather effects.

My selection so far would be:
- 15 x Neutral Whites (>90 CRI, 5700K)
- 5 x Warm Whites (low CCT for dusk and dawn effects)
- 5 x Royal Blues (for night lighting and the ability to make a cooler white)
- 5 x Blue

Any suggestions please? :) Barring in mind what I said about wanting to upgrade to saltwater/reef in the future.

Thanks!
 

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Welcome!

As mentioned on your other post, I would probably be inclined to leave out the royal blues, and replace them with cyan/turquoise LEDs. This may be tricky outside the US though, and you may have to grab some greens instead, unless you aren't opposed to purchasing from a US based supplier.

Here's a (fun) tool to play with different combinations-

SPECTRA

Just with the cool whites and blues (No royal) you should be around a 13000-16000k sort of look, which would be a decent starting point, and then add in the warm white as necessary to tune the color to your desires. This will bring you close to a 10000-11000k sort of look, with around 75 CRI. Adding 5 green LEDs to this brings the color temp down to 8600k, and 89CRI, which aint too bad.
* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
Cree XT-E CoolWhite (5000-8300K) [120°] x15
Cree XT-E WarmWhite (2200-3700K) [120°] x5
Cree XP-E Blue (465-485nm) [120°] x5
Cree XP-E Green (520-535nm) [120°] x5
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 3,354 lm
Radiant flux : 11,701 mW
PPF : 51 umol/s
TCP : 8620 K
CRI : 89
λp : 447 nm
Color : #B5E3FF
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 13.8 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 3,954 lx
PPFD : 60.1 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
SPECTRA
Add some more green, and a few red, and you get a theoretical CRI of 99(!) with a color temp around 6940k. Not bad at all really, and some decent adjustability.

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
Cree XT-E CoolWhite (5000-8300K) [120°] x15
Cree XT-E WarmWhite (2200-3700K) [120°] x5
Cree XP-E Blue (465-485nm) [120°] x5
Cree XP-E Green (520-535nm) [120°] x9
Cree XP-E Amber (586-595nm) [120°] x1
Cree XP-E Red (620-630nm) [120°] x3
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 4,030 lm
Radiant flux : 13,759 mW
PPF : 61 umol/s
TCP : 6940 K
CRI : 99
λp : 447 nm
Color : #E1FFF9
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 30cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 16.2 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 4,751 lx
PPFD : 71.9 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

by SPECTRA 1.0β @ 1.023world
SPECTRA




I assume you aren't too interested in growing plants in this rig?



to upgrade to a reef fixture later on will require more forethought, but isn't impossible. A decent full-spectrum white freshwater rig now would work, and later on add a bank of royal blue and violet to fill it all in, but it sort of depends on how you wish to arrange the heatsinks (IE, single block sink, individual fixtures, etc) and what corals you intend to keep.

I'll do some more digging in a bit, just got to work.

Do you have a particular supplier in mind? That would help narrow down which emitters are available to you for getting it figured out.




(Paging jeffkrol!)
 

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couple thought,

I wouldn't gut a chinese fixture for housing there are better options out there. I'd look into a Stevesled HD heatsink they can be cut to fit your canopy this would run under 50 bucks and would handle enough power for even when you go reef.

look into cobs, I think thats the direction a lot of DIY has been trending, much more bang for buck and there are better options as far as spectrum going that way. lots of unique options such as the new Luxeon Freshfocus line (fresh fish is like the perfect freshwater cob on its own imo)
 

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I wouldn't gut a chinese fixture for housing there are better options out there.
Agreed.

look into cobs, I think thats the direction a lot of DIY has been trending, much more bang for buck and there are better options as far as spectrum going that way. lots of unique options such as the new Luxeon Freshfocus line (fresh fish is like the perfect freshwater cob on its own imo)
That's where I usually start, but it can be a little tricky for users outside the US. If he isn't growing plants even a handful of SunPlus cool whites from Steve'sLEDs would be a good start, unless he wants super high intensity, then some FreshFish CoBs would be perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Great info, thanks! :)

Based in Europe, so would prefer to order locally, have the week between Christmas and New year's free, that's when I want to start building it.

Can source a heatsink around here as well, not sure how I'd make it fit my current hood, as its core is the t5 lighting g unit that I'm actually replacing.

Can't post links due to my low post count, but it's a Juwel T5 unit, if you want to Google it.
 

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Being in Europe.. consider a base of "fresh" fish" COBs..Should be fairly easily obtainable..
6500k 95 CRI-ish
Adequate blue/cyan
https://www.lumileds.com/products/cob-leds/luxeon-cob-with-freshfocus-technology

3 of them across 36" will be al the light you would ever need..
colors can be any brand actually. More for effects and adjustments..

You may or may not need blues depending on taste..
deep red/ww would make a good sunset/rise combo..
also check sourcing Luxeon for colors..

Sorry, kind of a Luxeon snob.. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just had a look, the Luxeon seems like a beast! 4000lm / LED, makes it 12000lm for the whole tank just through those 3 LEDs. A bit worried about spotlighting, given that my hood sits just 10cm above water level. Just checked and I can source them from Mouser, so at least that's no problem.

Would probably throw some deep reds in there and some blues for the moonlighting. What I forgot to mention is that I'm a software/embedded engineer and would love to get my teeth into designing and building a more advanced control module, with individual channels, weather effects, vary color temperature from my phone etc. I'm worried about locking myself into a certain color temperature and having to add lots of 'colored' LEDs to offset those COBs.
 

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Some deep reds and regular blues would be a nice addition for tuning things, as would maybe a couple warm whites or amber too, depending on how much adjustment you want. Since you are more concerned with coloration than growing anything you can play around a little.

Embedded engineer huh? Figure out a way to get us a nice simple internet router style website (connect to network, login, and configure) that will work with a cheap ESP8266 Wemos D1 type of board that has similar functionality to the Bluefish Mini. It would be very handy for such builds!
 

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Well you "think" you want all that.. ;)

Practical experience is most will lock in a look and be done w/ it..

here is a fun chip to pair w/ the ff...
https://www.rapidled.com/citizen-amber-cob-clu048-1212c4-22al1k3/


SKU : CLU048-1212C4-22AL1K3
CCT : 2200
CRI : 65
Typical Forward Voltage : 34.6V
Max Drive Current : 2,160mA
Typical Luminous Flux (@1080mA 25C) : 5,950 lm
https://www.rapidled.com/citizen-amber-cob-clu048-1212c4-22al1k3/
Phosphor corrected COB.
so 2200k to 6500k w/ little loss in power (considering the outputs 50/50 @ 5480K approx...)

now it would be expensive..($40/"set" and using nowhere near potential)

moonlight and asst effects could be done w/ 3=3W RGB ind. wired stars...since k correction is now done by COB's
(personal choice would be ... deep red/cyan/(reg. blue, rb, violet.. flip a coin)

Nothing here is considering "economics".................;)

mouser lumiled "amber"..

L2C5-22901205E1300

BEST match for the ff (opinion)
L2C5-22901203E0900

SADLY min purchase is 100 at Mouser
Larger COB w/ 90CRI:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...p4cpX9kQ0JZ8K/6l%2b3VRowQCrNH3pRXdRJR05Pw9ROu

$129/ 3 sets of 2200/6500)..............

Oh, recommend not worrying about sw upgrade.. spectrum "needs" change daily.. from adding UV (<400nm), IR(>800nm) and even greens..
Fresh fish will always be useable for both..well all will but at mostly very low drive currents (dimming)

now still contemplating your width w/ COB's...

@8" you get about a 28" spread...so no problem..
7" off the water line should be a fairly good sweet spot..

Problem w" bars" occur at 3-4" off water line..

BTW: In case you are wondering..COB's alone will probably be 3x your current light.....

180W of directional LED's at 900mA
and looks like "red meat" pared w/ "fresh fish" would be interesting..

 

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I think a really nice setup 3 fresh fish 1208s for your main whites. Then add in a 3watt royal blue next to each fresh fish and a 3 watt warm white. 3 channels total would give you adjust mentioned from 3k to 8k which is about perfect for sunrise sunset and moonlighting.

Not as nice of a cob but cheaper and dimmer is a vero10 or 13. Can get it in a 5k 90cri the blue should raise the temp to a higher level fine.
 

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Embedded engineer huh? Figure out a way to get us a nice simple internet router style website (connect to network, login, and configure) that will work with a cheap ESP8266 Wemos D1 type of board that has similar functionality to the Bluefish Mini. It would be very handy for such builds!
That's the plan!

Bump:

Well you "think" you want all that.. ;)

Practical experience is most will lock in a look and be done w/ it..

here is a fun chip to pair w/ the ff...
<had to remove link>



<had to remove link>
Phosphor corrected COB.
so 2200k to 6500k w/ little loss in power (considering the outputs 50/50 @ 5480K approx...)

now it would be expensive..($40/"set" and using nowhere near potential)

moonlight and asst effects could be done w/ 3=3W RGB ind. wired stars...since k correction is now done by COB's
(personal choice would be ... deep red/cyan/(reg. blue, rb, violet.. flip a coin)

Nothing here is considering "economics".................;)

mouser lumiled "amber"..

L2C5-22901205E1300

BEST match for the ff (opinion)
L2C5-22901203E0900

SADLY min purchase is 100 at Mouser
Larger COB w/ 90CRI:
<had to remove link>
$129/ 3 sets of 2200/6500)..............

Oh, recommend not worrying about sw upgrade.. spectrum "needs" change daily.. from adding UV (<400nm), IR(>800nm) and even greens..
Fresh fish will always be useable for both..well all will but at mostly very low drive currents (dimming)

now still contemplating your width w/ COB's...

@8" you get about a 28" spread...so no problem..
7" off the water line should be a fairly good sweet spot..

Problem w" bars" occur at 3-4" off water line..

BTW: In case you are wondering..COB's alone will probably be 3x your current light.....

180W of directional LED's at 900mA
and looks like "red meat" pared w/ "fresh fish" would be interesting..

<had to remove link>
I'm not ignoring advice, just trying to make sense of it all. It seems that, by getting the FF COBs, there are some compromises to be made just for the convenience of having a very high CRI from just 3 LEDs.

PROs:
- High CRI out of the box
- Ease of wiring

CONs:
- Spotlighting at current height (10 cm - 4"), so would have to find a way to lift it
- Unused power as most combos will stay dimmed
- If running them at full power, then I need bigger assisting LEDs for effects, especially if aiming to raise the color temperature (CCT now is around 11K)

I think a really nice setup 3 fresh fish 1208s for your main whites. Then add in a 3watt royal blue next to each fresh fish and a 3 watt warm white. 3 channels total would give you adjust mentioned from 3k to 8k which is about perfect for sunrise sunset and moonlighting.

Not as nice of a cob but cheaper and dimmer is a vero10 or 13. Can get it in a 5k 90cri the blue should raise the temp to a higher level fine.
As above, I'd like to be able to go up to at least the current color temperature (11K). I really like the blues popping, even though that color combination doesn't yield the best CRI.
 

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1 3watt royal blue would make a freshfish running at 50% 11kish, running at full out 8kish.

the spread issues isn't as bad as you really think. at 5 inches the spread is 18in almost. 6inches 20. you will have full spread only an inch or so into the water column.

Bump: 1 3watt royal blue would make a freshfish running at 50% 11kish, running at full out 8kish.

the spread issues isn't as bad as you really think. at 5 inches the spread is 18in almost. 6inches 20. you will have full spread only an inch or so into the water column.
 

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CONs:
- Spotlighting at current height (10 cm - 4"), so would have to find a way to lift it
- Unused power as most combos will stay dimmed
- If running them at full power, then I need bigger assisting LEDs for effects, especially if aiming to raise the color temperature (CCT now is around 11K)



As above, I'd like to be able to go up to at least the current color temperature (11K). I really like the blues popping, even though that color combination doesn't yield the best CRI.
sorry, somewhere screwed up the cm conversion or mis-read..
Not sure you can find them on stars but Luxeon sunplus cool white is basically the same as fresh fish,,

2 rows 3" apart..;)

If you are "stuck" w/ mouser.. suggest these as base units
941-CXB13040C0BC465E
Mfr. #:
CXB1304-0000-000C0BC465E

Listed 10W but at 400mA and 9V only 3.6

Will require more drivers than usual w/ 3W chips probably..
Deficient in the 470-500nm range..
Best to fill in w/ blue/cyans..
@ 70CRI will prob. be noticeably yellowish even at 6500k

8:2 cw/reg. blue
4:3:1 ww/deep red/cyan
 

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Well, 1x XT-E Royal, 3x XP-G Blue, and 1x Fresh Fish will put you at 78 CRI and 9800K if you run the FreshFish at rated current. Dimming the Fresh Fish down by half will yield 15380K and 62 CRI, and shouldn't look too bad if you like a heavy blue look. If you order stateside you can do this with the three blues on a single star board from StevesLEDs with connected wiring, and have the emitters very tightly clustered, and then use a sheet of acrylic diffuser material, or scuff some glass or plexi with fine sandpaper to accomplish the same thing. Not sure if anybody in europe does the custom 3-up boards yet with different colors, but even if using individual emitters this will work very well. Add a deep red or warm white for sunrise/sunset effect and color tuning if you wish.

You could use the 5600k 90CRI Vero 10 instead of the Fresh fish, and add in another blue, maybe a green (preferably cyan) and get pretty close for less cash.


How many channels of control do you want? Just white, blue, and a warm channel of some sort?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I see the light now, with the FF, pun intended :)

Must admit that only when I started seriously playing with Spectra, then I realized how powerful they are. Like the perfect base to start anything from. So I already have 3 of them in my Mouser basket, thanks for the patience guys.

Now, as for the companion LEDs, I'm thinking:
Chan 1: 3 x 30W Fresh Fish 1208 (6500K)
Chan 2: 9 x 3W Cree Warm White
Chan 3: 6 x 1W Cyan + 6 x 1W Royal Blue (still thinking about the distribution here)

Morning starts with the warm whites alone and, as the day progresses, the fresh fish ramps up and the warm whites subside. I may add a touch of blue for daylight, depending on what I see during testing. Warm whites start kicking in towards the afternoon for the sunset and I use the blues for moonlighting.

Thoughts? :) Want to place the order tomorrow morning (about 8hrs from now).

Thanks!
Alex
 

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Cyan is VERY eye visible.. might want to do RB(6) /Cyan(3)/reg blue(3)

actually consider a separate channel for the cyan
cyan/deep red/blue = whitish.. ;)
and one for the deep red.. ;)

Really miss the deep red on my 55..it is a taste thing though..

40B (ww,660nm red):


5 channels.. Standard R(s)/G(ish)/B(>cyan)/ww/cw
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That wouldn't be a huge problem, so:

Chan 1: 3 x 30W Fresh Fish 1208 (6500K)
Chan 2: 9 x 3W Cree Warm White
Chan 3: 3 x 1W Blue + 6 x 1W Royal Blue
Chan 4: 3 x 1W Cyan
Chan 5: Deep Reds. How many?
 

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That wouldn't be a huge problem, so:

Chan 1: 3 x 30W Fresh Fish 1208 (6500K)
Chan 2: 9 x 3W Cree Warm White
Chan 3: 3 x 1W Blue + 6 x 1W Royal Blue
Chan 4: 3 x 1W Cyan
Chan 5: Deep Reds. How many?
Oddly depends on the driver.. V(f) of reds is sub 3V .. like 2.4.. so 3 =7.2V
Ldd-h's will go 2-52V so they are good..

Obviously when the primary's are full or close you won't (shouldn't) notice any toning..more for effects and spectrum fill..
One per ff is fine.. More would be your choice..If normal 6500k's I'd recommend more..(see 7000k/660nm Finnex'es for an example..non-blue model)

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok, final setup check before ordering:

- 3 x FF COBs https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/997-L2C5FS001208E15
- 6 x Cree 2700K WW https://ro.mouser.com/productdetail...4Prknbu83y6gBWitgFwb/cybBPUsvHvMHGMseaoVOHg== (driven at 700mA for 6W per LED)
- 6 x Cree Royal Blue https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Pow...-Blue-PlugundLight-Star--LT-2877_120_138.html
- 3 x Regular Blue https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Pow...P-E2-M3-Blue-on-Star-PCB-LT-2209_120_138.html
- 3 x Cyan (couldn't find these in Europe on a star PCB, ok to replace with green)?
- 6 x Deep Red https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Pow...E2-P3/P4-Red-on-Star-PCB-LT-2495_120_138.html

Depending on the delivery times from Mouser, I have two options for the housing:
- Quick delivery: Simple alu heatsink [Ebay Link Removed] Deep Aluminium LED Cooling Heatsink (100, 200, 240, 300, 600, 900,1200mm) | eBay[/url]), fan, hanging kit and DIY splashguard
- Slow delivery: HD Heatsink or https://www.ledsupply.com/led-heatsinks/makersheatsink-slim
 
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