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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Thought I'd start a journal, so here goes. I'm calling it a build, because i'm notoriously bad at keeping up with updates and such :help:. But I will try my best this time.

Equipment list:

Filtration: Fluval FX6, Eheim Pro 3e 2076
Co2: 2x 6kg Co2 tanks, Dupla PH Controller Delta Set (probably won't be using this, not sure yet), ISTA Co2 Turbo reactor (will try and diffuse in FX6 on new setup) and a BioPlast solenoid Co2 Regulator.
Lights:[STRIKE] 3x 30w Flood LEDs from Ebay[/STRIKE] 2x54w T5HO with individual reflectors, 1 10.000k, 1 "pink". 70-75 PAR at 20".
Substrate: 4x 9L ADA Amazonian, KCL, Dolomite, Red clay, Montmorillonite clay and osmocote.
Fertilizers: EI Dosing, double macros, Dry to tank. Add Mg and K at Weekly 50-60% WC (tap has all the Ca I need).
NH3/NH4: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: ~ 30ppm
PO4: ~ 2ppm
Fe: ~ 1ppm
Mg: ~ 6ppm
Ca: ~ 36ppm
K: ~ 25ppm
KH: 2.5
GH: 4
PH: Co2: 5.95 without Co2: 7.28

Flora:

Heteranthera zosterifolia
Pogostemon Helferi
Pogostemon Erectus
Alternanthera Reineckii "Mini"
Alternanthera Reineckii "Pink"
Eleocharis Acicularis "Mini"
Hydrocotyle Tripartita "Japan"
Cryptocoryne Undulata "Broad Leaf"
Cryptocoryne Wendtii "Green"
Hygrophila Siamensis "53B"
[STRIKE]Hygrophila Corymbosa "Compact"[/STRIKE]
Staurogyne Repens sp.
Anubias Barteri "Nana"
Vesicularia montagnei
Vesicularia ferriei

Haven't had time to plant everything yet, but it's coming along.

Fauna:

100 Cardinal tetra "Paracheirodon axelrodi"
20 Pygmea Cory's "Corydoras pygmeus"
[STRIKE]12 Green laser Cory's "Corydoras sp. CW009"[/STRIKE] 14 Corydoras Strebai
12 Oto's "Otocinclus affinis"
Red Bee "Caridina cantonensis sp. Bee"
Black Sakura "Neocaridina Heteropoda var. Black"
Assasin snail "Clea helena"

TL;DR At the moment pictures:



Tank:
The tank is a custom ordered rimless with the dimensions 120cm long, 50cm wide and 40 cm high (yes, its going to be metric, use a damn converter :p ). It has 10mm glass, and the sides and front glass is optiwhite. After receiving it, I would say the quality is equal to ADA. Polished edges so clear I can see down the length of the glass too the other side, and I can barely make out any silicone.





The tank and mess in the start of the build

DIY Stand:
I decided to build a stand too, because if I want one from the LFS I need to order it, weeks of waiting and really expensive. And by building it, I could make it taller, so I could fit my big 6kg Co2 bottle in the stand for once. Also can't beat DIY stands, waterproof (mostly) and can hold a car.
Mine is been built after DIYKings plans, and then custom fit some Ikea kitchen cabinets around it.











The stand build, and some teak stain on the wood.



These Ikea legs are brilliant, can take 125kg each, probably double that before actually breaking, considering safety margins and all. And the are adjustable, so leveling is a breeze, even If I have to move it :D



Done with tank on top, and a poor cleaning job.






DIY Canopy mid build.



The old canopy, and the leds I'm reusing.













Layering of under soil ferts, done in this order: KCL (Potassium Chloride; aka. Muriate of Potash), Dolomite, Osmocote, Red clay, Montmorillonite clay.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
hehe, a little fun notation. The part about the stand holding car, is not even a joke. If the legs would hold up 250kg each, the stand should be able to withstand 1500kg if the pressure is even. Overkill maybe? :D
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Not Really sure about the hard scape and plants yet. Have a big crate of rocks and wood, Ill just wing it when the time comes. The funds are kinda low at the moment, so plants will be what I have already. Have lots of C.Undulata,H.tripartita "japan", HC, A.Reineckii and H. Siamensis 53B, and small amounts of c.wendtii, P.Helferi, S.repens and x-mas moss. So I will try and do something with that at first.

The fish I already have going in the old 75g, are about 90 C.tetras, 8 ottos, 3 small ancis. and some platy fry. The tetras and ottos are definitely getting moved over, the other I'm not sure about yet.

Ill throw in a picture of my Desk black sakura shrimp breeding/emersed tank. The H.Siamensis and A.Reineckii really need some major trimming, comes in handy now :)



Don't mind the arm, just trying to shade the bulb somewhat so you can see something :p

Bump: Oh yeah, and I know I want about 2/3 of the surface area covered in hardscape/bushy an tall plants, and the remaining 1/3 with carpet of HC. And since the tank is going to be viewed from 1 side and front, I have sloped the substrate back in to the corner.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Progress has been made. Finished staining the canopy and mounted the lights.

Now the remaining problem is to extend the wall mounts somehow, as the new tank and stand is about 15cm wider, and the canopy wouldn't be centered over the tank.







Bump: Haven't noticed the finger marks on the edge of the canopy before looking at the pictures..whoops :p
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Well, I more or less finished up tonight, with the build that its. All the stuff IN the tank is still missing :D

This is the finished product and PAR reading (multiply number by 5, to get par). The picture of PAR is about the average PAR at substrate without water, it varied between 6.2-12.4. So 8.8*5=44 PAR. Little bit in the low side, but can always lower the lights some more, this should be adequate for Dry start to begin with.

My target PAR when everything is up and running is somewhere between 60-90 PAR. At that level you can grow pretty much anything, and its still not a lot of light so algae and trimming is gonna be less frequent, or at least thats the plan :p

Also when I get more funds for the project, the next upgrade will be the lights. Not sure yet if I'm gonna get some nice T5HO or LED. The Ebay floods are not quite the color I was looking for, and the reliability is pretty poor.

The PAR meter is an Apogee SQ-120 connected to a multimeter for those who are interested.





 

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I have a question for you on the stand legs. I'm about to build my own DIY stand and I like the idea of adjustable legs for leveling the tank. My apartment has pretty uneven floors and I'll be trying to shim the stand for sure. But I'm a little worried about weight distribution over the floor. I'll be setting up a 65 gallon with a 20 gallon sump so I'll be running a little bit more weight than you. Do you think that those legs will create large pressure point on the floor or do you think it will be fine?

Your build is coming along well! Everything looks really well done!
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thank you so much for the nice words :)

Ill try my best and answer you question.
With 8 of those exact leg you should be fine, If the floor can handle it is another thing, hard to judge by not seeing it in real life. I myself have some really uneven floors, and the hardwood even gives a bit some places when you step on it.

I though of putting down some plywood or a board of some kind to try and even the pressure out, but I decided to try without since its close to a corner of the house, and the hardwood seemed ok at that particular spot so I think im good. I'm no carpenter, so by any means, we can both be WAAAY overkill, or the brim of disaster for all I know. But I do have some experience in DIY projects, and done some tanks before with similar circumstances.

But In your case I think I would use something to even the pressure out, if your floors is in the same state as mine. The legs does come with small square metal "shims" that are used to screw onto the floor to secure the kitchen cabinets which they are intended for. So that will even out the pressure to at least double the surface area compared to just the pegs. I didn't use them, because I already have these legs on my kitchen cabinets, and they are a real pain in the butt to install correctly.
 

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I've took some structural design classes and also worked in housing construction for a little bit. I've got my current tank (20 tall with a 20 gallon sump) on a tv stand that I built out of 1" solid oak panels. It weighs around 150-200 pounds. The floor seems structurally sound as I have it placed what should be perpendicular to the floor joist's and along a load bearing wall. Its in the best place I could find besides the basement floor or garage. I found some of these adjustable legs with a foot print of 2 3/8" in diameter. Rated at 440lbs or 200 kg a piece. I think with the wider surface area I should be able to get away with it.


If I'm thinking about the physics of the floor correctly. The existing plywood on the floor should distribute the load out evenly between the joists. I guess at this point I'm more worried about punching a hole through the plywood. That sudden drop would more than likely splinter any joist and then proceed to fall into my land lord's living room and or bed room. I'm going to do some calculations quick to get a good idea of what kind of weight at each point I'm looking at. I'll post the numbers that I get in case you're curious as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A little tip indicating the floor can handle it, was I thought If my beefy friend (about 95kg ) could stand on the ball of hes heel on 1 foot without going through the floor, it should be able to hold the tank. Don't know if this is at any help, but thats how I though of it :p

Bump: Yeah, thats the exact same worry I have. Going through the first layer of floor, not like through the whole damn thing. At least here in Norway that wouldn't be a problem, we have building regulations here that state that the floor should be able to support 1 ton of weight pr m2. Sorry, English is not my main language, so im not always clear.

And the legs you explained have about twice the surface area compared to mine, so if my logic is correct. The stress should be about the same, your just spread out on a bigger area.
 

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Well I did a little bit of math and I'll share all of my numbers with you but first I want to address one thing. Even though a floor may be able to support a 95kg man standing on the ball of his heel on one foot, that is for a short period of time. Say 10 seconds at the most of him being able to keep his balance. That translates to microseconds in relation to the time that your tank is going to be sitting on your floor. Your floor could "sag" or deflect over time. One day you could very well wake up with it going down floors faster than an elevator. Not saying it will, but without the proper precautions and calculations its not a risk I'd be willing to take. Anyways, onto the numbers. Mine are all in Standard Units. So sorry if they are a bit confusing. Here is a picture of all of my math. I just estimated weight to get an idea. Its more than likely over weight after displacement calculations of water via sand, rocks, and driftwood. Plus a 20 gallon sump really will only have about 10-15 gallons of water in it.



Now as you can see I calculated the pressure on the floor in three set ups. One with 4 of the legs, one with 6 of the legs, and one with just the stand on the floor. Now according to building codes here, a floor should be able to carry a MINIMUM load of 40 pounds per foot. Again a minimum of 40 psf. According to my calculations with 4 legs I got a pressure of about 7343 psf. With 6 legs I got a pressure of 4895.9 psf. This equates to 51.4 and 34.25 PSI respectively. Quite a lot in my opinion. With just the stand it comes to around 1.40 PSI or 201.6 PSF. Now thats a HUGE difference. Now comes the tricky part. How do we relate this into something we can use? Well a tthe bottom of my calculations you can see. A 3ft tank spanning perpendicular to the floor joists that are a standard of 12ft long multiplied by the load bearing minimum will give us the amount of weight that that section of floor will support. I got 1440 pounds. So according to weight I've got 500 pounds or so to spare. But lets see what the pressure amounts to. 1440/(36"x18")= 2.22 PSI

With my calculations I've decided to go with a piece of plywood on the floor and I will shim the stand on top of that. Then I will be well within the minimum load bearing of the floor. Again 2.22 PSI is the minimum that the floor was designed to support. You could probably get away with 3-4 PSI and not have a single problem. It depends on the floor and the floor design. Here is a web site that I found and where I got some of my numbers from.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php

Hope this helps some!
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks for all the hard work, now I'm even more worried. We'll Ill install the square shims for sure.

But something about those numbers doesn't add up to reality though. As of here in Norway, and Europe in general Eheim tanks is very common, and the older versions just had some 2cmx2cm square steel legs pr 60 cm. And my old 75g just has 6 plastic pegs too, about 2cm in diameter. And the whole thing is built in just 18mm MDF. I [censored][censored][censored][censored] bricks every time I bump it, never had a problem though, and all manufactured stands here are like that. I'm sure we are missing something, because I never heard of one go through the floor, and alooot bigger tanks than mine put places without consideration to even leveling.Though tanks like that are much more forgiving with their metal frame leveling wise. With the numbers we are getting and what the floor is stated to withstand we should have a lot more failures no?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
And as to try and fix the pressure points with plywood seems mute, as explained in your link. Does very little to nothing. And now that I think of it, my kitchen island is located in the middle of the room with a huge and heavy oak top, thats supported by 8 of these legs. With all the junk inside, cabinets itself++ It surely weighs a lot more than our tanks.

And 40lbs pr foot seems kinda fragile? Our codes would be equivalent to 733lbs pr foot (1 metric ton pr square meter). Or I'm messing up the conversions or math somewhere.

I'm just saying, something doesn't make sense here, and I think we are overly paranoid, but better safe than sorry.
 

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It doesn't add up because all of my calculations were for the minimum load in mind. The architect more than likely designed the floors to hold much more than 40PSF. Code just says it needs to be more than 40. Housing codes change depending on where you go. So your codes very well could be 1 metric ton per cubic meter. I really wouldn't doubt it. I was just using the numbers that fit for my area. I really wouldn't be nervous at all if I were you. Just fill it up slowly and listen. You'll know if your floor can take the weight or not. If it can't, just drain out the water and go back to the drawing board! Can't wait to see how your build will turn out!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks, that settles a worried mind. Even though my quote in signature says its no use :p

I know for a fact that its 1 ton pr m2, worked in wood shop couple of years an asked around. I will still install the shims, will double the surface area and as said, better safe than sorry.

And yes it actually is 62 gallons, don't know where I got 55g from :D

Bump: Ok, I've started the hardscape. And this is my Achilles heel when it comes to tanks, so some input and tips would be awesome. I like the overall look so far, but I just can't seem to find a balance. Just doesn't look right if you get what I mean.







Bump: We'll looking at it in pictures gives a better perspective. I definitely have to do something about the rocks to the far left. What you think?

Bump: Maybe a more centered look? Moving the wood to a "peacock" like fashion and the rocks around them?

I dont know, this is hard! :p
 

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I like what you have going on in the hardscape. Try keeping an odd number of rocks. Looks more natural that way. Try taking out the far left larger rock in the back. Also You want your tallest point of your hardscape at the one third mark of the length of your tank. It can be at the 1/3 mark on either side of your tank. This is what professional aquascapers do. Its called the golden ratio, a good read if you're ever bored. lol

Maybe try switching the rock and the left piece of wood around. That will put that piece close to the 1/3 mark and it will look like a tree that is sending thick roots out into your tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Came out with another way of hardscaping too. But after reading your respons, I think that would be a nice scape indeed, if I picture it right in my mind :) Ill try that too.

Here is the 2nd scape, more rocks and less wood in this one



 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Sorry for no updates in a while, had a lot on my plate lately.

We'll, I went with my own hard scape creation nr.2. Not 100% after the golden ratio, but I like it. I planted it the same day as the last update, can already see noticeable growth on the Hydro and HC. Siamensis and Reneckii not looking to fresh, but as long as the stem itself don't dry out, they should be fine.

Had some mold on wood the 3rd day, but aired it out a couple of hours and now its seems to have mostly died off. Also got some new plants in the mail, couldn't help myself. So have to re-arrange a little soon.

Added rubber mats and siliconed the edges for a more water ressistant floor. Sloppy job, but I don't really mind inside the cabinet, as long as it does its job. And I'm going to be setting up a Emersed grow in 1 of the cabinets, just need to build me shelf and hang the CFL from that.

Throwing in some pictures of my equipment too, sorry about the messy cabinets, its from my old tank.

















 
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